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RV-10 Inflight Fire and Forced Landing - Pilot Did Great!

KirkGrovesRV8

Well Known Member
Anyone know what's going on with Ted, I hope I am mistaken but I think I heard he had a fire and an off airport landing:(

{ed: I moved this and all the subsequent posts from Ted Chang's "First Flight Announcement" thread to it's own dedicated thread because there is a tremendous amount of good information here that everyone might want to see, but wouldn't find under the old title. All posts have been transfered intact. }
 
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No details other than Ted is fine and
his Facebook pic shows gear failure from
an off field landing. No details on what
caused the landing.
Tom
 
Anyone know what's going on with Ted, I hope I am mistaken but I think I heard he had a fire and an off airport landing:(


Kirk, I just saw this post by Bob Leffler on the Ohio Valley RVators site:

"Ted just posted to facebook that he had an inflight fire and landed off airport. Ted is ok, but the rv-10's gear collapsed.

He posted some photos to facebook"

No speculation, just what popped up.
 
Here are the photos

Yes, after the excitement of the first flight I had the excitement of a fire flight:p. I came out fine. The landing was not too bad. The initial impact was absorbed by the collapse of landing gears. The wet uphill slope slowed down the airplane.

I had an in-flight fire while on four mile upwind for landing. After discharged fire extinguisher and closed the fuel valve I found the cabin filled with smoke with zero visibility. I opened the door and it flew away. Looking down I found a pasture on my left and banked sharp to land. In front of me are hills with houses and trees. This is pretty much all I had. Everything happened in 2-3 minutes. I am glad that I walked away. So, it must be a good landing :p.

After I have the airplane back to the hangar and open up cowling and tunnel cover I will report back the cause of the fire.


IMG_1901.JPG


Baggage door was opened after fire was extinguished and I opened it to retrieve my tools.

IMG_1906.JPG

See the phone line on top of this picture? I flew under it!
 
Glad to see you made it down safely Ted. That had to be absolutely terrifying, yet you managed to put her down with minimal damage to you and the airplane! Well done
 
Pretty scary! Glad you could see well enough to see through the smoke! Good decision to cut the fuel supply and lose the door right away.
 
Ted:

That was without a doubt some fine aviating! Sorry about the plane, but congrats on keeping your cool (no pun intended).

We look forward to hearing your findings.
 
Nice Job Ted

Pretty much told you everything I needed to say when we talked earler today...glad you're OK buddy! Call when you're ready for some help!
 
GOOD JOB!!!

When all else fails, FLY THE PLANE.

You did a great job from what the photos show-------put it where you wanted, put it on the wheels, and got out safe.

Sometimes that is all you can ask for.

Main thing is you are not hurt.

Hopefully the repairs will not be too extensive.
 
Observations.

I took the liberty of copying some of the comments (red) from the Matronics list, and posting them here. Hopefully Ted will approve of my actions.

"Fuel has been leaking some time before the fire started on this
particular flight"


:eek: Were you aware of this before the flight, or did you figure it out after the fire?

"Don't rely on emergency checklist. Remember the important steps and
just do it. There is no time and visibility to find the checklist."


Too true. Survival in an emergency is very often a matter of training and reaction.


"There is no modification on my fuel system."


Good info.

""I do have insulation inside the tunnel floor and up on firewall."


Did you do a burn test on it before installation?

"My only negative thought was that my accident might negatively impact a lot of builders. I don't want to see anyone get discouraged. I am pretty sure that what happened to me is not a design flaw, but a builder mistake. After I
found the problem I will share with you so you can avoid this problem."


Thanks for the honesty, and for the concern for the rest of the homebuilder community. Truly the action of a gentleman.

Hopefully this will turn out to be a good learning situation for all.
 
I am pretty sure that what happened to me is not a design flaw, but a builder mistake. After I
found the problem I will share with you so you can avoid this problem."

That there is the sign of a REAL MAN. Not what your insurance rep will want you to say ....but a real man puts his hand up when he finds the mistake and tells everyone instead of burying so nobody will see.

Insert big round of aplause............

DB:)

PS.....Was it a VANS fuel selector or an Andair?
 
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Cause of the fire

I got my airplane back to the hangar and found the cause of the fire. It was a loose b-nut on the mechanical fuel pump. I must not tightened it enough. After 3+ hrs it got loose and leaked fuel. The fuel flow down under the tunnel and burned through. The smoke must be from the brake fluid. It was short lived. If I landed on hard surface I would not have brake!

Do make sure all your lines are properly installed. You don't want to join the exclusive club of emergency landing survivors like me:p.

IMG_1936.JPG
 
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Thank you for the update Ted and thank goodness you are OK.

Best to you and yours,
dr

I got my airplane back to the hangar and found the cause of the fire. It was a loose b-nut on the mechanical fuel pump. I must not tightened it enough. After 3+ hrs it got loose and leaked fuel. The fuel flow down under the tunnel and burned through. The smoke must be from the brake fluid. It was short lived. If I landed on hard surface I would not have brake!

Do make sure all your lines are properly installed. You don't want to join the exclusive club of emergency landing survivors like me:p.
 
The fuel flow down under the tunnel and burned through. The smoke must be from the brake fluid. It was short lived. If I landed on hard surface I would not have brake!


Ted,

Just curious, was your brake fluid 5606 or 83282? I was wondering if 83282 would have minimized the smoke.

thanks,

bob
 
I used 5606 from Van's. I have no idea whether it produces more smoke or not. By the way, if you tighten all your fuel line b-nuts then you don't have to worry about the problem I had!
 
I used 5606 from Van's. I have no idea whether it produces more smoke or not. By the way, if you tighten all your fuel line b-nuts then you don't have to worry about the problem I had!

83282 has a flash point of 450 and a burn point of 490, whereas 5606 has a flash point around 190. 83282 may have still burnt and produced smoke, since the tunnel most likely got quite hot once the fuel started to burn. However, it may buy you a couple more minutes before it started to burn and smoke.

I think 83282 and double checking the nuts (and perhaps using torque seal lacquer to indicate the nut has been torqued properly) would be appropriate actions to take to minimize the issues you experience.

thanks for sharing your situation, so others may learn.

bob
 
Don?t panic

Ted Great job flying the plane and keeping your cool.
Glad your ok.

I have had missed search results for your Nnumber on my website www.rvbuilderlist.com
I added your aircraft to the site - Kit 40948

Good luck with your rebuild
Joe
 
Very glad you're OK Ted!

I find very interesting how the nosegear failed, and did not pull under forcing the airplane to flip. It appears the RV-10 nosegear design is a winner.
 
Thanks Ted.

I got it now. I was thinking it was a tunnel fire and didn't realize it was forward of the firewall.

Your photos and reports are very very helpful. Thanks for your honesty!

Phil
 
Well done Ted.

Please shoot a few detail photos inside the tunnel. This is a rare opportunity to study the progression of a classic fuel fire.

For now can you tell us about events as they progressed from the pilot's point of view? I'm not thinking about the emergency landing; you did a great job with that.

When did you suspect you had a fire? What was the first clue? When and why were you sure? How quickly did smoke become an issue? How much time passed between each notable event as the emergency progressed?
 
I got a few minutes before I have to go out of town. Here is a quick answer.

The first sign was low fuel pressure. I turned on the boost pump. The fuel flow was very high (don't remember the number).

After 10 minutes (I had a 20 nm trip with 32 kts headwind at 2,600' running 23/2300 I was doing 90 kts GS) and 4 nm from my destination I smell the smoke and began the sequence of event I reported before).

My plane landed 1.5 to 2 sm from the end of the runway and the surface wind was reported 4 kts from south. In a dive I estimate that I must be doing 140-150 mph. So it took a little more than 1 minute to travel the 2.2 sm. I must started turning toward the field less than 60 seconds from the time I smelled something.

First has been burning under the tunnel for a few minutes. By the time I noticed it must has burnt through the skin.

Big smoke came out within few seconds after I put off the initial fire along the edge of firewall and tunnel. Now I believe by that time the brake lines have been burnt through.

I am going back to the hangar next week to open the tunnel cover and assess the damage. FAA inspectors want to come and take a look too. I will definitely post pictures.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if burning insulation was a major contributor to smoke in the cockpit. Do you have some laying around the hangar that you could test?

Phil
 
Glad to hear you are OK, Ted! For some reason this hits closer to home when I hear it happening to a guy who has been so helpful to me throughout my build. I'm amazed at your skill in handling what must have been a terrifying situation! Thanks too for sharing your experience with our community.

I'm sure there will be days of frustration ahead as you fix/replace what took a lot of effort to build in there first place. Best wishes as you move on from here!
 
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I am late in the discussion. really glad you are OK.
It remind me that i am flying a rv-10 that i bought at flying 100hre. Now just add 36 hre. I made a 100hre inspection but will redo one big inspection soon. I was flying my own rv07a before and had 600hre bt the rv-10 is still new. snag can still appear.
remind me too that i often over fly the north part of the Maine and there is not much place to do emergency landing. Maby i should add 40 min to my flight and make my way around and have a big long landing strip ( transcanada highway)
I never had a engine problem in 900hre of flight but i am always fly with the small fear ( good fear) that the engine can stop at any minute

Thank you very much for all your documentation. I know that it's not the problem but i will address my hot tunel problem

Lan Vinh Do

RV-10 C-GMCE
 
A while back....

...Van issued a service letter addressing the loosening of the fuel line pickups in the tanks of the two-seaters and a method of drilling and safetying was shown.

A lot of us didn't want to go in there so we added proseal to the B-nut and threads to "lock" it in place.

What kind of safety/locking device can we use on our FWF fuel lines for some peace of mind if nothing else?

Dan? Others? I realize that certed airplanes don't have any either.

Thanks,
 
Ted:

That was without a doubt some fine aviating! Sorry about the plane, but congrats on keeping your cool (no pun intended).

We look forward to hearing your findings.

I agree. Glad to hear you are okay. Great job getting on the ground and walking away.

Thank you for sharing all the great info. I commend you for your openness and forthcoming.
 
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safety

B nuts that are already drilled are available. Probably very hard to find but they are out there somewhere.
 
More photos

Got back from the trip and went to the hangar in the evening to take some photos. Plastic inserts in the inside seat track were distorted by heat and it took a hammer to get them off. Here are a few photos I took.

IMG_2107.JPG

Fire came from the floor and burnt through brake lines. Fuel line is still intact.
IMG_2104.JPG

A proof that fuel/fire did not come through heat boxes.
IMG_2081.JPG

Gear mount broke.
IMG_2100.JPG

Gear leg is still in good shape.


I had left over firewall blanket from my RV-9A in the tunnel. It was burnt through. The blanket has aluminum outer surface. Something with stainless steel outer surface will do better. Smoke were from brake fluid, SCAT tube, and paint.

Additional photos can be found on my Picasaweb album.
 
Under the "interesting " circumstances you encountered in flight I am amazed you were able to get the plane on the ground and walk away. Well Done!
 
You are a very lucky man to have survived this situation. It is one that we all have nightmares about. Good piloting skills and quick thinking saved your life. Now you need to get back on the horse and keep moving forward, and put it behind you !

BTW, which heat boxes did you have installed?

Good luck with the rebuilding..

Bill
 
I have often thought that the firewall should go aft of the firewall and extend a foot or two along the floor of the aircraft. Ted, from what you can see how far would we have to put an exterior cover of stainless to get protection?
 
Ted, that stuff looks familiar. Got a brand name or source?

I got that from Flightline Interior in 2006. I was not thinking about fire proof but heat insulation.
 
A word of advice.....

Ted, the dry chem fire extinguisher residue needs to be cleaned up as soon as you can do so-------depending on what compound was used, it can be bad news for the aluminum :eek:
 
Wow, so the smoke and continuous burn could be the insulation fire. I am going to remove the insulation blank from my RV-9A before next flight.
 
If one wanted to install some type of insulation in the cabin for either thermal and/or sound reduction, what would be a better option? I'm not talking about fire protection here as there's a long thread on DanH's research on that subject already. In this case I'm curious as to what might be used in the tunnel and other areas of the cabin that might not produce clouds of smoke during a similar type of accident (ie type and duration) as Ted's.
 
I used 1/8" Fiberfrax from ACS on tunnel bottom and aft fw

I used a propane torch on it and heated it bright orange. Removed torch and could grab it with my fingers in 3 seconds. It does produce some light gray smoke after heat is removed and flame did not spread. I did not test with it bonded to alum or ss with high temp latex glue. Now you guys got me thinking about thin stainless on the bottom. I am installing a fire detection system around engine compartment using fusible links from the hvac field.

That fire was much worse than I first imagined. Thank you for the pics and many answers to all of our questions so soon. We all have learned a great deal from this.
 
Ted, the dry chem fire extinguisher residue needs to be cleaned up as soon as you can do so-------depending on what compound was used, it can be bad news for the aluminum :eek:

I vacuumed as much out as possible. However, there is a thin layer of powder even under the baggage compartment floor. They are most probably under the pilot and passenger floor too. I don't think I can get all of them out without drilling out all rivets. Any suggestions as how best clean them up?
 
Assuming your insurance company has looked at things, and gives you the green light to start disassemble, I think you could/should start by removing any damaged panels that will need to be replaced. That should give much better access to a lot of the areas. For the floorboards, it really in not a lot of trouble to drill out the pop rivets, and get the panels up. I had to do that in my plane to run wiring conduits, and it was tedious, but not difficult.

I would caution against trying to rinse the residue out, I suspect it would only make things worse.
 
Assuming your insurance company has looked at things, and gives you the green light to start disassemble, I think you could/should start by removing any damaged panels that will need to be replaced. That should give much better access to a lot of the areas. For the floorboards, it really in not a lot of trouble to drill out the pop rivets, and get the panels up. I had to do that in my plane to run wiring conduits, and it was tedious, but not difficult.

I would caution against trying to rinse the residue out, I suspect it would only make things worse.

Thanks. No, I have not rinsed it.
 
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