What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Landing and Position lights

OK, who likes what. Their are alot of choices out their. All you repeat offenders of RV aircraft should have some good ideas. Leading edge lights , or wing tip. LED,s seem to be the best bang for the buck and draw alot less power for what they produce. Would love to hear any suggestions.
 
OK, who likes what. Their are alot of choices out their. All you repeat offenders of RV aircraft should have some good ideas. Leading edge lights , or wing tip. LED,s seem to be the best bang for the buck and draw alot less power for what they produce. Would love to hear any suggestions.

We did leading edge lights before the wing tip ones were available. I wish I had the tip lights just because I would have loved to not cut a hole in the leading edge of the wing skin. Our leading edge lights are not LED and are not very bright at all..
 
We did leading edge lights before the wing tip ones were available. I wish I had the tip lights just because I would have loved to not cut a hole in the leading edge of the wing skin. Our leading edge lights are not LED and are not very bright at all..

On the other hand, the brightest lights on any of our three RV's are the LED Aerosuns in the leading edge Duckworks mounts. The worst lighting is provided by the HID wingtip lights on my -8. Modern technology in old mounts - cutting the leading edge holes in the -3 just wasn't as big a deal as I thought it would be when I did the -8.
 
One more word......

Aero LEDs:D

EXPENSIVE!!!! This is the only bad thing in my list of evaluation critieria I am using to determine which lights to go with.
1. More intense light :D
2. Much less electrical power requried to run them :D
3. Still expensive (and outrageously so IMHO). :mad:
4. can wig wag without separate controller module (self contained) :D
5. No separate strobe power supply required :D


I am still looking for affordable rational LED solutions... Plan to spend time at OSH this year hitting all the vendors - and looking for some good Airventure special pricing (hopefully).
 
I wanted LED's and "was" afraid to cut into the leading edge, so at the time of the build I decided to go this way:

809247D7-C212-4ECD-A387-3F29A27F7531-5650-0000044EFB25A66F_zps6341e0d5.jpg


I like them where I put them, but if I was to do it again I think the leading edge wouldn't scare me as much anymore.

The fiberglass ended up being a bunch of work!
 
Have the ductworks lights that I put HIDs in. Great light output. DIY LED position lights. They work great as well, but not very pretty to look at. Would go with current LEDS for those.
 
I would agree that aero LEDs are a bit pricey. BUT I'm betting on them being one time purchases. My Aero LED line up is as follows. Sun tail, Pulsar NHS 90s, Aerosuns in the leading edge and finally SunBeams in the tips.The sunbeams are bad***!!!. Don't ask the cost for my set up though. :rolleyes:
 
On the other hand, the brightest lights on any of our three RV's are the LED Aerosuns in the leading edge Duckworks mounts. The worst lighting is provided by the HID wingtip lights on my -8. Modern technology in old mounts - cutting the leading edge holes in the -3 just wasn't as big a deal as I thought it would be when I did the -8.

Im interested in these Aerosun lights. What duckworks mount do you use to install this? How do the aerosuns wire in? If there is a ballast like with HIDs, is it built in?
 
Im interested in these Aerosun lights. What duckworks mount do you use to install this? How do the aerosuns wire in? If there is a ballast like with HIDs, is it built in?

We just used the standard Duckworks mount and modified it as required (simple and obvious). There is no separate ballast, and I wiring is dirt simple - Ground, Power for "steady on", power for "Wig Wag", and a sync line (if I recall correctly). You can probably find the drawings on the AeroLED site.
 
Here is a dumb question

Why are folks afraid to cut the hole for the leading edge light mount? It a cake walk. Just use a demel with a metal cutting blade, rough cut it first and finish off with a one inch scotchbrite wheel. It's a no-brainer & it's not a super structural area & the wing is not going to fold in the last rib bay because you cut a hole in the leading edge. Some may not like the look & I get that... But I personally think the AreoSuns look really sweet in there :D
 
Last edited:
For my RV-3B, I've chosen the Microsun over the Aerosun for more lumens and mostly for a wider angle of the light. My use will be day VFR and I want to be visible.

But the plane's not flying yet so I can't say anything operational about it yet.

Dave
 
Very happy with Aerosuns ....

I'd echo what Paul said. The leading edge mounting is not a big deal (Duckworks (DW) gives you paper templates for location) and the VERY bright. I flipped the Duckworks mounting plate 180 degrees, which puts the Aerosuns an inch or two closer to the lens and gives better light distribution. In the standard DW position the Aerosuns sit quite a ways aft.
I love having the wig-wag feature w/o a separate device or controller - it takes only one 20ga wire strung between the L and R lights. I use the wig-wag feature far more than I figured ... it's hugely handy when ATC says they don't see you on approach.
And yes, they are pricey devils, but well worth it, IMO.
 
Cutting leading edge...

Why are folks afraid to cut the hole for the leading edge light mount? It a cake walk. Just use a demel with a metal cutting blade, rough cut it first and finish off with a one inch scotchbrite wheel. It's a no-brainer & it's not a super structural area & the wing is not going to fold in the last rib bay because you cut a hole in the leading edge. Some may not like the look & I get that... But I personally think the AreoSuns look really sweet in there :D

From my research here the issues seem to be
1. Easy access (or lack thereof) to the light and wiring assemblies from the LE location
2. Sructural concerns from cutting the LE at the location specified.
3. Thoughts that the LE install is more complicated/time consuming than a Wing Tip install

Some builders have posed questions about mounting the light further inboard, and this is where the structural discussions really kick in. The jist of those discussions is that cutting the LE further inboard does have more of a structural impact than installing them in the designated outboard location, since the load on the wings is more concentrated at the root than at the tip.

As for me, I was all set to use the Duckworks blank template and install in the designated LE location with the right LED Landng light solution (once I found it). Then I went to Duckworks site and saw that they were now introducing an LED Wingtip LL solution. I spoke with them about it and found out that you basically have to set the angles of the LED landing and taxi lights correctly the first time, since they are permanently glassed into the Wing Tip. So there is no "adjusting" of these light assemblies once you have installed them. I did not really like that too much, so now I am right back to putting them in the LE of each wing.

I don't think that lack of access to install the mounting bracket, light, or wring is a concern if it is installed in the typical bay in the wing LE. For those with structural concerns about cutting into the LE, there are tons of RVs flying with that config with no problems that I am aware of, so that is not an issue. And finally, there are lots of builder sites out there with excellent step by step techniques for performing this install. Just repeat what has already been done. And then there is the simple fact that they just look cool installed in the LE. :rolleyes:

So no prob for me cutting the LE of the wing. Heck, I even plan on making a couple of other strategically placed LE holes for some other things, but that's another story.... :D
 
Last edited:
I purchased the Vans wing tip landing and taxi lights some time ago, but may go with LEDs when the time comes. The cost is certianly an issue. Is it necessary to have landing and taxi lights? And, what about using the Vans taxi lights and LEDs for the landing lights?
 
We're just installing Aveo's Atlas Landing/Taxi light in our RV-8s for Air Displays, together with their Strobe/Nav light units.

You can see the Atlas lights in action in this video of our 1st 2013 airshow on YouTube - lead aircraft has the lights from ~3:30 on.

It's a combined Landing/Taxi light, split 70W/23W LEDs.

Installation essentially based on the Vans RV-7/8 Landing Light kit:
aveo_rv8_installation.jpg
 
I'm getting close to cutting a hole in the leading edges.

My natural instinct is to only cut what is necessary to access the light mount location, and secondly, big enough to allow a wide angle of light to penetrate through the lens.

I plan on one lens mounted in each wing.

The lights are 4"x 2"x .5" LEDS, so I figure the hole size would be something like 4.75" wide. I'm planning some extra enforcement around the skins openings as needed.

I'm using the AeroLEDS and the Suntail for nav lights.
 
Aero LED Wing Tip Installation

I went with the AeroLED MicroSUN landing lights.

DSCN27142_zpsc44fd5c4.jpg


The lights are below the nav/strobe line and can be easily removed from the front without having to take off the wing tip. It did require cutting into the fiberglass and creating a bracket but to me that seemed easier than cutting into the leading edge.

DSCN27992_zps67c18493.jpg
]
 
Leading Edge Cut

is really no big deal at all, for those who are wondering. I just completed mine on both wings. Some say you'll need special tools (i.e. dremel, etc), but I did it using simple metal snips (left and right). After marking the cutout on the skin, use a step drill to make holes in the corners, leaving about an 1/8" to a 1/4" distance from the line. Then start small with the snips (just the very end) until you get into the piece, again, staying away from the line. The snips are designed to curl one side, not the other, so try on scrap first to make sure you've got the correct one for the direction you're cutting. Once you've cut it all out, use a 1" diameter 3M wheel and/or sanding drum, chucked into your air drill or die grinder, to clean up the edges. Easy.
 
AeroSun vs MicroSun

Im looking to upgrade to AeroLed's for both nav/strobes and landing/taxi lights soon. I have a single landing light in the right leading edge now and want to go to dual lights on the upgrade.

What I'm understanding here is get another Duct Works leading edge kit for the left side?

Why did those of you go with AeroSuns over MicroSuns? The Micro's are smaller and have more lumens, am I missing something?

Chime in please....
 
I would really like to go with LED landing lights, but... So far I've been reading lots of reports about their use as "recognition" lights as opposed to actual landing lights.

Taxi lighting is fairly easy to find, thanks to a good selection of reasonably priced, fairly broad beam-width LEDs commercially available for a number of applications.

Our home airport has more than its share of wild beasts running around, so I'm looking to find a lighting solution which will give me good "down the runway" lighting. The traditional 4509 bulb is "ok" but not great for this purpose - ideally I'd like to get something even better than this. Without breaking the bank.

What is the level of experience with LED's being used as true landing lights in real night conditions?
 
I recently installed Baja Design's Squadron LED spotlights in my wingtips and they work great at night for landing lights. My full writeup on all of the technical details is in this thread:

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=105248

To cut to the chase on real world performance, here is a pic comparing the lights I choose to alternatives:
DSCN2922.JPG


And on landing right after touchdown:
DSCN2949.JPG


I am thrilled with them!
 
I just updated my HID lights in my RV4 with a pair of LED lights from Rigid Industries. I plan to do a full write up once I get a chance to test them more thoroughly but my first impression is they are quite exceptional.

http://www.rigidindustries.com/product-p/62010.htm is the link to their website if you are interested in more information. ACS sells them as well.
 
Beware

EXPENSIVE!!!! This is the only bad thing in my list of evaluation critieria I am using to determine which lights to go with.

I suggest adding:
  • expensive and complicated wiring
  • noisy and
  • poorly designed
I bought a set of Aeroled Nav/Strobes from Vans to replace my Whelen System 7. I have had nothing but trouble with them. They bleed RF into both of my Garmin Comms which reduces my range and makes weak signals impossible to hear. The Nav is as bad as, or worse than the strobes. It is easily detected with a handheld com.

I have tried every method of wiring them that Aeroleds have recommended. I had been planning to check them out with a spectrum analyser but had not got round to it. At Oshkosh they told me that they did exactly that and had fixed them. Implications were that they had some complaints from large manufacturers on the certified side.

They kindly shipped me a new pair. This has brought some improvement but it is not cured and they are now interfering (badly) with my WX500 stormscope. I had none of these issues with the old technology - unfortunately the power pack blew.

IMO the onboard filtering within the units is inadequate, despite their insistence that 3rd party equipment is to blame. How they originally certified them I don't know. My advice is to get something else.
 
Richard,

We were able to pass the DO-160 emissions testing with our original design. However, that does not mean that the product was completely free of any emissions, nor does it mean that in some environments it couldn't end up creating interference due to numerous variables including grounding, antenna placement and radio design.

The problem with RFI is it is difficult to prevent unless you eliminate it completely at the source. Otherwise, it is all about suppression which is not the best way to go.

Trying to troubleshoot RFI at a remote test site is very difficult and expensive, and does not allow a lot of recursive test/fix/test cycles. This makes it difficult to identify and fix the root sources of potential noise.

AeroLEDs made an investment in RFI test equipment earlier this year to allow us to do in-house testing. This paid off in that we were able to identify the root sources of RF in the circuitry, and make some relatively simple changes to eliminate the potential source of noise. All lights that have been manufactured since August 1st, 2013 have the benefit of this and are completely noise free (i.e. zero emissions above 25Mhz, and what is there below 25Mhz is weak, and won't radiate because those frequencies require a high gain antenna to even make it into the air.

If you are still experiencing significant interference, contact me by PM and I will work with you to correct the problem.

Best Regards,

Dean Wilkinson
AeroLEDs LLC

I suggest adding:
  • expensive and complicated wiring
  • noisy and
  • poorly designed
I bought a set of Aeroled Nav/Strobes from Vans to replace my Whelen System 7. I have had nothing but trouble with them. They bleed RF into both of my Garmin Comms which reduces my range and makes weak signals impossible to hear. The Nav is as bad as, or worse than the strobes. It is easily detected with a handheld com.

I have tried every method of wiring them that Aeroleds have recommended. I had been planning to check them out with a spectrum analyser but had not got round to it. At Oshkosh they told me that they did exactly that and had fixed them. Implications were that they had some complaints from large manufacturers on the certified side.

They kindly shipped me a new pair. This has brought some improvement but it is not cured and they are now interfering (badly) with my WX500 stormscope. I had none of these issues with the old technology - unfortunately the power pack blew.

IMO the onboard filtering within the units is inadequate, despite their insistence that 3rd party equipment is to blame. How they originally certified them I don't know. My advice is to get something else.
 
AeroLEDs made an investment in RFI test equipment earlier this year to allow us to do in-house testing. This paid off in that we were able to identify the root sources of RF in the circuitry, and make some relatively simple changes to eliminate the potential source of noise. All lights that have been manufactured since August 1st, 2013 have the benefit of this and are completely noise free (i.e. zero emissions above 25Mhz, and what is there below 25Mhz is weak, and won't radiate because those frequencies require a high gain antenna to even make it into the air.

If you are still experiencing significant interference, contact me by PM and I will work with you to correct the problem.

Best Regards,

Dean Wilkinson
AeroLEDs LLC

Is there any way I can send my not-ever-installed NS-90s/sun tail that I bought this summer back to get "fixed" so as not to have any RFI? Obviously, I don't know if there will be interference or not since I haven't installed them, but if there is a simple circuitry fix that I could get to eliminate possible sources of RFI, would that be possible and/or worth it?
Thanks,
Ryan
 
Kuntzleman LED

I went with Kuntzleman combination LED position and strobes and used their LED landing light in a Duckworth leading edge mount. Very pleased with it all, no rfi and best price at the time I purchased
 
Is there any way I can send my not-ever-installed NS-90s/sun tail that I bought this summer back to get "fixed" so as not to have any RFI? Obviously, I don't know if there will be interference or not since I haven't installed them, but if there is a simple circuitry fix that I could get to eliminate possible sources of RFI, would that be possible and/or worth it?
Thanks,
Ryan

Hi Ryan,

Most people who have installed the NS90's and Suntails following the recommended wiring and grounding have not had a problem, but for those that have, we can/will replace the lights with new ones that have the change made to them.

I would recommend that you try the lights in your plane and test them to see if you are noise free. If you do have a problem, we can arrange to replace the lights and take yours back to rework them.

Best Regards,

Dean Wilkinson
CTO, AeroLEDs LLC
 
Back
Top