IFR flying

My family flys a C-210 around the midwest for our family vacations/events. I'm thinking ahead 5 years when my girls go off to college and can downsize airplanes for just my wife and myself. I see alot of beautiful IFR equiped RV's out there however have not talked to anyone who actually flys in "the weather". Does anyone have any input on how these airplanes handle IFR flying especially doing instrument approaches? Are they pretty stable once you get on the glide slope? Thank you for any input you can give me. From my limited research It appears the RV 9A would be the most suited aircraft for 2 people x-country flying?

Jim

Great IFR Platform

Jim,

Do a search for Paul Dye's comments on the subject. I think he has some good writeups on flying his -8 on IFR trip segments.

I have only flown a -7 on simulated approaches under foggles, but I found it to be a very stable platform. It's no Bonanza in that it "feels" atmospheric conditions more due to it's lighter weight and it doesn't take much control input to effect a change, but the plane is far from twitchy. By contrast, shortly after I got my IFR ticket I tried to do some basic IFR maneuvers in a Lancair Legacy and was having a heck of a time getting the precision needed. To be fair, maybe that was also due to my lack of time in the plane and it being my first experience with an EFIS.

Jim Kickland said:

From my limited research It appears the RV 9A would be the most suited aircraft for 2 people x-country flying?

Jim

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One might argue that for a two seater, that would be a RV-14 and for a four seater, that would be a RV-10.

On cross countries, I prefer the extra room.

Many of the RV-10s fly IFR all the time. I see no reason why the RV-14 wouldn't be an equally stable IFR platform.

bob

I used to fly IFR all the time in my RV7, a few times down to minimums. It handled great but I also had very good avionics and auto pilot. The only downside is it bounced around in the clouds a lot more than a larger heavier airplane would have. I have flown my RV4 in actual IFR twice but my intention was not to have it as an IFR platform but simply a way to get up and down through a layer although I had no problems departing at minimums and spending 45min in the clouds at 10K on the way to OSH this year. Fortunately a smooth ride. My suggestion is get a good coupled autopilot and enjoy the ride.

P.S. Since Mike is in lala land this morning and got beat to a first post by no less than three of us, I'll say it for him. Welcome to VAF.

I guess everyone's definition of stability may vary. My RV7 is fully IFR equipped but I consider it a handful to fly manually IFR (my experience is a retired airline pilot with 1500 hours in RVs). What makes a RV a delight to fly VFR, make it somewhat of a challenge in the clouds. Personally I consider an autopilot a necessity to use an RV7 as an IFR traveling machine.

We fly our -9 in solid IFR quite often. It is a pleasure to fly by hand or attached to a wire for hours in the soup, down an approach to minimums if you choose to do so. One of our biggest safety factors in real IMC with weather is the full up two pilot sterile cockpit.

I fly my -6 regularly in IMC, and have flow it to minimums comfortably. When in the soup, on glide slope, with power set correctly, I find it easiest to using the autopilot for heading, but control the descent by hand. It seems that holding heading when bouncing around in the light RV is more difficult that holding correct descent rate.

The plane I have for comparison, is a Bonanza, and with the extra weight is much easier to fly an approach totally by hand.

The 7 is fine for IFR - autopilot (with altitude hold) helps - in chunky weather, you'll want to slow down. Not so good for icing conditions.

Dan

We fly our 7A in IMC and down to min. but we have a great instrument and auto pilot. Without those type of instrument/auto pilot, I still be very comfortable flying it in IMC but not down to minimum. All my practice approaches are hand flown and I find control is of no issue only one need to be more attentive.

My instructor/friend has a 210, and instructs nearly full time in the Cirrus series. When hand flying, he prefers my -10. Makes a very nice ifr platform.

Jim Berry
RV-10

DanBaier said:

The 7 is fine for IFR - autopilot (with altitude hold) helps - in chunky weather, you'll want to slow down. Not so good for icing conditions.

Dan

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My old C-210 had TKS de-ice on it which we used alot living in Iowa. Have you heard of anyone that put a TKS de-ice system on any RV models?
Thanks
Jim

Putting a TKS system on an RV would be hard, as a significant part of the leading edge of the wing is the fuel tank, so you'd need some sort of double skin in front of that, or modify the tank, etc.

210, RV-10, RV-7 is the order of pitch stability. 210 will practically hold altitude all on its own; -10 needs more attention, -7 even more. It can be done, it is really a fatigue issue. I think most of us are using autopilots at least enroute, for that reason. They work very well and are relatively inexpensive, compared to anything close for a 210. They can be flown in IMC without the autopilot, you just arrive more tired.

I have not flown the -9 or, obviously, the new -14.

Because of the icing issue I'd suggest getting the highest climb rate and service ceiling you can, just so you have options.For the -9 that means I would only consider the largest engine offered.

I have a -10 and it was the right choice for me. Although our son is grown and out of the house, I am surprised at how often friends want to fly with us. Initial cost is higher (but not too far over the estimated cost of the -14) but operational costs are not much more, I nearly always fly at 160 KTAS on less than 10 gal/hr. And with just 2 on board the climb rate is great. No aerobatics, of course.

Lots of choices for you.

Jim Kickland said:

My old C-210 had TKS de-ice on it which we used alot living in Iowa. Have you heard of anyone that put a TKS de-ice system on any RV models?
Thanks
Jim

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Yes. There is a vendor that has a de-icing solution for the RV-10. With the price they are asking and the additional weight, I'm not aware of anyone that has purchased one as of yet. I think it required mounting a second 100a alternator to generate the current for the heating coils.

Moved From a CT210 to an RV9A

I flew a couple of different N models over the course of 20+ years, mostly around the Eastern half of the U.S. -weekly trips from Detroit to Clinton, Ia. were part of that mix. When I built my 9A, I was about #75 to fly, so my choice at the start was based on the prototype performance numbers that Vans was touting.
What really drew me to the aircraft was the wingspan, which I surmised would give me a relatively slow roll rate and hence a more stable instrument platform versus the other RVs. Like my 210, I mostly hand fly the aircraft rather than use the autopilot. I especially like to hand fly on instrument approaches (I know, I'm a dinosaur), and the 9's wing makes it a piece of cake. The difference? For a few knots trade off in speed, my fuel burn is less than half, insurance is 25%, and maintenance costs are WAY down.
As far as icing, my 210s were equipped for known ice, so there's no comparison. That said, I would tell you that even without de-ice gear, the 210 is much better suited to the task. , my normally aspirated 9 requires me to close the air box in any sort of moisture anywhere near the freezing point. This results in a need to lean and a corresponding reduction in power. More importantly, the wing on the 9 will not carry ice as well as the 210, and the Cessna's ability to carry nearly 1000 pounds of payload makes a little accumulation much less worrisome. Bottom line, I know of no attempts to put ice gear on an RV- even a heated prop, which would be more important than wing deice or anti ice.
All things considered, I don't expect i'll be moving back to a 210 anytime soon. Find a 9 in your area and bum a ride- I think you'll see why some of us really like this plane. Also, I'd probably want to take a look at the new RV14 as well.
If you can't get a ride locally, fly your 210 to KPTK, and I'll let you fly mine.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP