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VAF Annual Membership Fee Proposal

Would You Support this VAF Membership Fee System

  • Yes

    Votes: 180 72.3%

  • No

    Votes: 69 27.7%
  • Total voters
    249
  • Poll closed .
TomVal

TomVal

Well Known Member
Here is another payment reminder option: barring one highly principled operating limitation?.

VAF will never be behind a paywall, nor will you ever get a single email or piece of junk mail from me asking for a penny. Ever. We use the honor system here. Honor (defined). A person has it or they don't

I recommend the following change

VAF will never be behind a paywall, you will only receive a single annual PayPal email invoice reminder, never any junk mail. We use the honor system here. Honor (defined). A person has it or they don?t.

Below is a link to the PayPal invoicing system.

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/product-selection

Would the membership support the above? Please vote.
 
Completely support. I appreciate Doug's low-key approach to such things, but I don't think some kind of annual reminder about donations would be out of line it all. I think it's possible to send a friendly "hey, by the way, your dollars keep this place running" without getting into, say, the doom-and-gloom donation requests I get from the NRA.

As I outlined in the other thread, the first year I was here, I didn't donate out of sheer ignorance. I think we can combat that innocent ignorance without harassing people. There are people who willingly take without giving, and then there are people who forgot, or weren't aware, or haven't donated for some other benign reason. I think those folks are the ones we need to focus our efforts on.
 
$25/year is nothing compaired to the value of this site. Just go cash in some of that scrap aluminium that you made :D Works for me.
 
I am in!

I am going to leave it up to Doug......either way I am in but I want it to happen the way Doug thinks it best!!!
 
DAGO said:
...only receive a single annual PayPal email invoice reminder
Click to expand...

I would suggest a reminder email on the anniversary of your last donation and leave the method to the individual or list different ways to contribute (check, PayPal, chickens, etc.). I know PayPal charges a lot. I just set up an automatic payment via bill pay at my bank so Doug will get an annual check and save the PayPal fees and I won't have to remember again.

VAF%2520Auto%2520Pay.jpg
 
larrynew said:
I would suggest a reminder email on the anniversary of your last donation and leave the method to the individual or list different ways to contribute (check, PayPal, chickens, etc.). I know PayPal charges a lot. I just set up an automatic payment via bill pay at my bank so Doug will get an annual check and save the PayPal fees and I won't have to remember again.

VAF%2520Auto%2520Pay.jpg
Click to expand...

I like that...
 
I voted yes, but I would imagine the folks who want to lurk could do so free of charge.

What you get by paying your $25 is the ability to post, to use the search function, to use the PM service, etc.

Just my 1/1250th of the years dues.
 
Im in!

I am in for the reminder as well. As I mentioned in an earlier post that I pay a quarterly payment because I see the value.

That being said I do that on my own and I have forgotten from time to time and had to play catchup because it is what I wanted to do. I think the majority of folks here that don't pay on their own do just forget and the reminder would help.

If you think about it.... these guys building are busy and can forget. Working at work and then trying to build an airplane in their spare time.

Then you have the folks that have finished and are busy out flying in their spare time. So lets vote for a reminder and see how that takes.

We can always stone and flog the lurkers later!!! :eek:

Just kidding!:)

PS I hope to be joining the finished building ranks soon and promise not to join the lurkers!
 
Just Brainstorming...Thanks!

I’ve been a VAF member for over 4 years. Doug’s current format for requesting a donation could not be made any easier (both for you and also for Doug as the accounts receivable manager). However, looking at mid-year and year end donation results, we have not been good monetary supporters of his website.

Those of you whom have elected to setup an automatic bill payer account to VAF also have a very good idea.

The overriding question is, “What does it take to motivate the masses?” Some state, “I keep forgetting!” Last year, only 18% of the members contributed. This year, the results are trending down. IMO, neither system above has gained much traction other than a brief flurry of activity whenever a call for donations is made. My poll question is to simply present another option in lieu of hitting the “Donate” button (the EASY button) on Dr’s website.

From a business perspective, my proposal would add to the administrative workload of the site. However, would the membership respond to a single annual email PayPal invoice reminder, with a “Donate” button on the statement? Perhaps our response to this poll would shed light if this is a viable option.

Of course for a small business, sole proprietor type operation, the additional administrative task is both a time and cost commitment. Possible options are to do it yourself (already too busy), hire a couple of data entry operators for a week, or hire someone in the family.

I might add that my proposed system would still maintain a non-paywall site (having paid is not a requirement for entry), nor would he have to deal with expired credit card issues or website password management.

Forgive me for thinking out loud. I’m just brainstorming. We all want Doug to succeed. Please participate in the poll...and as others have stated, this is Doug's call.

Thanks,
 
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I agree , the site is one of the most valuable tools in your toolbox! An annual fee is not out of line whatsoever
 
I am a NO as Doug did not intend for it to be this way. However, if he can not make a go of it through the voluntary program, then I would say yes before we lose this invaluable tool. I support Doug.
Man up if you use this site and donate.
 
Mike S said:
I voted yes, but I would imagine the folks who want to lurk could do so free of charge.

What you get by paying your $25 is the ability to post, to use the search function, to use the PM service, etc.

Just my 1/1250th of the years dues.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing, but it's Doug's call. It's his show.
 
I paid early, November 2011 for 2012, but I am not being shown as a current member, should I wait and pay in January every year. I too would prefer to pay a annual fee.
VAF 172, one of the oldest members I am sure.
Repeat builder; 6, 9, 12, & 4
GerryC
 
Payment for members

I think Dago is out of line posting this unless he has Dougs blessing on the matter I lurked on here for 5 years and when I started building I saw the value and this last new year I felt it was worth so much to my building i paid in full for all the back years . Now with that said I will get to the point I feel its Dougs baby and he dont need no one telling him how to raise it most on this site are not blind and they see the big Green Button on the Left.The more members and lookers on this site the better for the Adv ertisers and the more they see the value of advertising here the more they will pay so Dago lets not chase off the real value of this site and the real value you can be to this site by helping other builders with good advice and leave the web building business to the web master Doug.
Bob Willis
 
Tough call

Advertisers look at the number of hits on the website to determine the value
of advertising dollars.
You may gain paying members, loose non paying members and loose paying advertisers. I count 2 losers in the last sentence.
Something along the lines of what Mike S posted might be a good solution.
I haven't always paid the $25 per year but I paid several years worth after I sold my RV-8 on this site.
 
6 Gun said:
I think Dago is out of line posting this unless he has Dougs blessing on the matter I lurked on here for 5 years and when I started building I saw the value and this last new year I felt it was worth so much to my building i paid in full for all the back years . Now with that said I will get to the point I feel its Dougs baby and he dont need no one telling him how to raise it most on this site are not blind and they see the big Green Button on the Left.The more members and lookers on this site the better for the Adv ertisers and the more they see the value of advertising here the more they will pay so Dago lets not chase off the real value of this site and the real value you can be to this site by helping other builders with good advice and leave the web building business to the web master Doug.
Bob Willis
Click to expand...

Bob,

Just for the record, I did not communicate with Doug prior to originating this thread. Also, I am not suggesting a mandatory donation system, just an annual email reminder system. Absolutely free access to the site is maintained. At any rate, thanks for posting your opinion and voting.

Regards,
 
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My opinion!

...I am a no on this, not because I don't think of this resource as being worth it. I think this forum is a fantastic resource and I am not against paying my share. One of the things that makes our airplanes so great is found in the sheer numbers of them in various stages of flying and completion. The same thing holds true for this forum in that a very large portion of its value lies in the number of visits it gets. Most importantly the unique visitors and lurkers as these represent the next generation of RVers. The paid advertisers carry a considerable portion of the expense here and they do this in part because of the traffic numbers and potential future business that could come from it. Were it mandatory that a guy join and pay a fee, I am quite certain it would discourage many and they would move on prior to seeing what this resource actually has to offer. I believe this forum would be diminished to some extent were it mandatory to pay, but I can see where Doug may gain in the short run monetarily should this fee be implemented. Allan...:)
 
I said yes...

Because it is of value to me. I think the personal reminder is a good idea at the 1st of the anniversary month and posting and searching access denied at the end of the anniversary month if the payment is not received. Visibility is important and cutting off non paying viewer access to the forum would be a major mistake that would turn this thriving site into a dried up wasteland.

Oh that question about credit for early payments in one year for the next year, I had the same question a few years ago but income has to be recorded in the year it is received not when you intend to get credit for it. Since I went through that I always wait until January under the current system to make my donation.

Bob Axsom
 
Big NO on this one

I appreciate the forum and am willing to kick a few $$ in every year for continued access to the community. It is unlikely that I will ever build or for that matter own an RV, however I find the collective knowledge here of things aviation and related to A/C manufacturing and operation to be very valuable and would greatly miss it if it were to go away.

I would not appreciate even a gentle reminder. Every time one logs into the site the opportunity and suggestion to "push the button" is there if they elect to use it. Sending a bill whether it is a reminder or a real bill puts this into the category of all of those gentle reminders we all receive from the charities that we supported in the past that now are encouraged to fill our mailbox with these reminders disguised as bills every couple of weeks.

My opinion is that Doug has created the foundation for a forum that would continue in some form if he had to go on to other endeavors. His creation is that well based and his community is that strong.

If there is a financial need here I believe that the commercial users that benefit from this market place should be the first place to look for additional resources. The do appear to support the site through the purchaser of advertising space and donations and we are all appreciative of that. However I believe that the ability to gain access to this focused marketplace is a lot more valuable that we realize. Stein and Perf Tech are to examples that come to mind. If if that doesn't do it look at the classifieds and the millions of $ that are moved through that marketplace every year without an expectation of any payment to Doug. Try that on e-bay, try that on e-bay or Barnstormers.

My opinion is that those that would donate will and sending a "bill" will only help to ruin a good thing that appears to be founded on the expectation that good people will do the right thing whenever they have the opportunity.

My two cents, your GPH may vary.


Phil
 
I have no problem with receiving a reminder if I'm an active user of this site and haven't made an annual contribution to support it. The donation that Doug is requesting is miniscule given the value that I've received from having access to this valuable resource.
 
I also support a system that requires an annual due be paid in order to post, search, PM, ect. For those that have not supported the site financially it is read-only. This will still get traffic to the advertisers, but also help ensure the site is paid for.
 
I voted No. and here's why.

Some people come here just looking around finding info, but stay because of the ease of use. they ask a couple questions, find a RV buddy and got HOOKED....the ease of use is the hook. Ultimately they end up visiting vendors.

The people that don't pay just need their moral compass calibrated.

I've paid every year, usually in Jan/Feb figuring Doug has christmas bills to pay. But this year January rolled around and our financial outlook wasn't rosy. By April, I was contemplating selling Aurora instead of letting it get flat tires sitting in a free hangar. Then full time employment for my wife changed the picture. Did I pay then...no...because I was lazy and comfortable a VAF free loader. I flew to Texas for a weekend and raced, spending $550 on fuel alone. I got home and was refreshed at being an RV owner. A few weeks later the "donate" link caught my attention and I paid my delinquent bill. How could I not support, Aurora most certainly would not be the plane she is with VAF. I saved $$$thousands on this site. I saved parts and I saved precious time during construction.

But I probably won't not have stuck around if I had to pay in the early days. Who benefits from me sticking around those early days...Airflow Performance, American Propeller, SteinAir, Avery, Classic Aero, AERO, Bonaco....the list goes on & on. But mostly I benefited.

How to keep the easy part of VAF and still get the everyday lurkers compass adjusted? I don't know, but think there must be a way to trigger a reminder message based on login. VAF software knows each time I come here. Can't be that big of stretch to make the Green Donate button flash or something for lurkers who haven't paid after 100 visits or something.

YMMV
 
larosta said:
I appreciate the forum and am willing to kick a few $$ in every year for continued access to the community. It is unlikely that I will ever build or for that matter own an RV, however I find the collective knowledge here of things aviation and related to A/C manufacturing and operation to be very valuable and would greatly miss it if it were to go away ...
Click to expand...

Just as in our society, there are givers and takers. If it is unlikely that you will ever build or for that matter own an RV, WHY are you even here? To absorb everyone else's contributions for free?

This concept parallels the ongoing controversy about the EAA trying to be everything to everyone. Everybody loses. In this case, it's great to have lurkers because sometimes the lurkers become builders. However, this site is not free to operate and manage. It's Doug's full-time job. Yes, he gets money from advertisers, but apparently not enough to keep this site up reliably. I've never seen DR post a notice like that on the forum front page today. NEVER.

There are plenty of free aviation sites where lurkers can gain a lot of free knowledge, complete with lots of ads, popups and spam e-mails when you register. DR has made this a very user-friendly site, and the accumulated experience and knowledge that is freely shared by its members has value. That value has a pricetag and it's a paltry $25/year.

IMO, the best suggestion yet is to limit posting and archive searches to the paid membership. Lurkers are free to lurk and, should they decide to join our merry band and learn more or contribute, it costs 25 bucks. I've belonged to a few forums like that and it's no big deal.

Free stuff is seldom valued. If the freeloaders get mad and leave, no real loss.
 
I and my wife have both sent in donations (and she is skeptical about flying) and feel the $25 annually is a real bargain. In addition, I have sent in an extra donation when I have purchased from the Classified section and saved a reasonable amount of $$$. I may not have had that opportunity if it were not for this site.
 
As an advertiser and a forum member, I can tell all of you the value of this site. I've not only paid the advertiseing fee, but donated to the site as well. My business would not be where it is today without VAF. Tremendous value.
Tom
 
There seems to be some misunderstanding about what's being proposed here. I note that every person who has posted an explanation of why they voted "no" seems to be under the impression that the proposal is to make the donation mandatory to use the site.

Unless I'm the one misunderstanding, that's not the proposal up for voting here. Dago is proposing simply that there be am email reminder regarding donations. Donations would still be made on the honor system, and people would still be free to freeload if their conscience allowed.

He's simply proposing a gentle reminder that donations are what keeps VAF running.
 
I voted no the way the question was asked.....

I would feel totally different if it were Doug floating this poll. I make not only annual donations, but send more when I sell surplus stuff on this site. So I am not against giving more than $25. I just personally don't like it when someone messes with another's business model. I don't like chain emails either, but that's just me :)
 
I like Mike Starkey's idea!!!

I also like the reminder idea also. This site is too valuable to see it go away.
 
Gold star

If you want to increase participation put a gold star on all avatar names who are contibuters. You will see a sudden improvement. Why should 20% be baring the burden with no recognition?
 
check is on the way

Doug has saved me a lot of money and time on the 7A, I still have a long way to go, so we need to keep this site running. The Check is really in the mail
 
I would suggest a reminder email on the anniversary of your last donation and leave the method to the individual or list different ways to contribute (check, PayPal, chickens, etc.). I know PayPal charges a lot. I just set up an automatic payment via bill pay at my bank so Doug will get an annual check and save the PayPal fees and I won't have to remember again.
VAF%2520Auto%2520Pay.jpg
[/QUOTE]

I do 99% of my bill paying using online banking and this idea never crossed my mind. Doug is now set up to receive a check once a year automatically. Thanks for the suggestion.
 
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RV7AV8R said:
If you want to increase participation put a gold star on all avatar names who are contibuters. You will see a sudden improvement. Why should 20% be baring the burden with no recognition?
Click to expand...

This is how it was done on a forum I used to frequent. Use of the forum was free for all, but you could make an annual donation and become a "supporting member". In addition to getting that title under your avatar, you also got some extra privileges, like more storage for PMs and such.
 
RV7AV8R said:
If you want to increase participation put a gold star on all avatar names who are contibuters. You will see a sudden improvement. Why should 20% be baring the burden with no recognition?
Click to expand...

This is the best idea I have seen so far. I support this 100%. I would hope there is an easy way to automate the process so that the star is based on your payment anniversary date (not just the calendar year). Social pressure can really get things moving. If I saw two people selling the same item, one with a star and one without It would make the choice easy.
 
N546RV said:
There seems to be some misunderstanding about what's being proposed here. I note that every person who has posted an explanation of why they voted "no" seems to be under the impression that the proposal is to make the donation mandatory to use the site.

Unless I'm the one misunderstanding, that's not the proposal up for voting here. Dago is proposing simply that there be am email reminder regarding donations. Donations would still be made on the honor system, and people would still be free to freeload if their conscience allowed.

He's simply proposing a gentle reminder that donations are what keeps VAF running.
Click to expand...

Thanks Phil. I believe I may have confused the poll question because of the way I titled the poll. Perhaps I should have worded the poll title to read, “VAF Donation Reminder Proposal”.

I think there have been some outstanding alternative recommendations and I particularly like the “read only” access for non-paid members proposal.

I appreciate the input and the hits (ouch)…however, we all share one goal, to ensure this VAF website remains a success for Doug and his family.

Regards,
 
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Those that do Pay

N8RV said:
Just as in our society, there are givers and takers. If it is unlikely that you will ever build or for that matter own an RV, WHY are you even here? To absorb everyone else's contributions for free?

Don,

I do gladly pay in oreder to help keep the site alive and intend to continue doing jus tat in the future. Please conbsider using one of my clients parachutes when you jump next time <GRIN>.

Phil
Click to expand...
 
N8RV said:
Just as in our society, there are givers and takers. If it is unlikely that you will ever build or for that matter own an RV, WHY are you even here? To absorb everyone else's contributions for free?l
Click to expand...

Funny! But, seriously, I wouldn't have even considered building if I hadn't lurked here for a few years without even registering. I've been contributing a few years now and, especially now that I am actually building, would be in a world of hurt without this site.

I like the idea of some sort of automatic yearly reminder based on registration date and the gold star. I remember that star as being a great motivator back in 2nd grade... :)
 
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I still have a pretty good sized burr under my saddle about what I consider (IMHO) over-zealous moderation on this board - but in sum total this forum is still quite valuable to me, it has saved me a lot of money and time during my build (after costing me the money and time FOR the build! :D) and I just set up an automatic annual online bank check for my donation.

I would support the public recognition of contributors (gold star by name, something similar) and limiting posting to paid members, or giving some other privileges to paid members.

Still grumbling about the moderation/censorship - but I recognize the value.
 
Yes, but ambivalent

I already have auto-pay set up because I'm a real procrastinator. The reminder would be moot, but perhaps valueable for those bigger procrastinators than me (is that even possible?).
For the record, I re-animated on a long-dormant RV-4 project because I discovered VAF, on which I lurked at first, then retro paid as I spun up.
 
DAGO said:
We use the honor system here. Honor (defined). A person has it or they don’t.
Click to expand...

Tom,
If we assume that all honorable folks folks on this forum already contribute VAF, and the dishonorable ones do not, why would we need to invoke the system you propose? If a member really needs to have a gold star or is in need of adulation for supporting VAF, they can simply go to the list, find their name, and print it out to be posted in a public place of their choice. I gladly pony up the $25 each year, but expect nothing in return other than my own knowledge that I thanked DR the only way I can. To institute any system whereby the membership can see who pays and who does not promotes a caste system, which I assume that none of us would really want. Do we?
Additionally, I have another question,and please don't take it personal as it is not intended in that fashion. Are you acting as an authorized agent for DR? Or, is this this poll based on your personal philosophy that Doug should be compensated for his time (and he should) spent running this great site? While I could be mistaken, he has not made any comments on this poll.
Thanks,
 
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Love this idea!!

RV7AV8R said:
If you want to increase participation put a gold star on all avatar names who are contibuters. You will see a sudden improvement. Why should 20% be baring the burden with no recognition?
Click to expand...

This is a fantastic idea!!! A Gold Star !!!

I discovered this site after a colleague of mine showed me his built RV.

I got hooked almost instantly and after 3 months, I ordered the empennage kit and 2 months later paid my 2012 donation.

If I take 5 years to build, total cost of donations will be 125$ or more. How about that for a plane that I estimate at around 85000 - 100000$ finished.

With all the info, hints, advice, etc found here, it's dirt cheap.

I would be ashamed of not paying...

Thanks Doug and thanks to all here that contribute and keep this forum alive.
 
$

We're talkin' 25 bucks here... I support whatever is necessary to keep this site going strong. I thought it was only AIRLINE pilots that were cheap... prove me wrong! :rolleyes:
 
I completely support the idea and would appreciate receiving a reminder when my annual fee is due. What I get from this site is worth the annual fee many times over!

I could care less about having a "gold star" by my avatar to indicate I support the site financially, but it probably would generate contributions from some who presently don't participate. On the other hand, if the goal is to only provide info to those who pay, then make the site accessible ONLY to those who make an annual contribution. Somehow, though, IMHO, that would just seem to take away some of the site's spirit.
 
VAF Donation 2012

Hey Dave
''I thought it was only AIRLINE pilots that were cheap... ''
-------------------------
I had to make sure that reputation wasn't warranted so I'm paid up for 2012..More to come later on...:):)

Bruno Dionne
B-777 F/O YUL
RV-4 Capt..:eek:
Yes: I paid my =VAF= membership dues for 2012
 
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jetjok said:
Tom,
If we assume that all honorable folks folks on this forum already contribute VAF, and the dishonorable ones do not, why would we need to invoke the system you propose? If a member really needs to have a gold star or is in need of adulation for supporting VAF, they can simply go to the list, find their name, and print it out to be posted in a public place of their choice. I gladly pony up the $25 each year, but expect nothing in return other than my own knowledge that I thanked DR the only way I can. To institute any system whereby the membership can see who pays and who does not promotes a caste system, which I assume that none of us would really want. Do we?
Additionally, I have another question,and please don't take it personal as it is not intended in that fashion. Are you acting as an authorized agent for DR? Or, is this this poll based on your personal philosophy that Doug should be compensated for his time (and he should) spent running this great site? While I could be mistaken, he has not made any comments on this poll.
Thanks,
Click to expand...

Bob,

I will break down your post and attempt to answer your questions:

If we assume that all honorable folks on this forum already contribute VAF, and the dishonorable ones do not, why would we need to invoke the system you propose?

Check out Doug’s VAF mission statement:

VAF will never be behind a paywall, nor will you ever get a single email or piece of junk mail from me asking for a penny. Ever. We use the honor system here. Honor (defined). A person has it or they don't

Then check out his “honor” definition on the website, there are no dishonorables.

Invoking a system???

No, just brainstorming as a result of the following post Doug made on the VAF home page two days ago (only an excerpt of the post follows):

“But sadly, the banker man doesn't care much for these uplifting emotions. The stone cold, brutal reality (the point I need to drive home) is that unless more of the regular readers donate $25 yearly, the site will go dark and I'll go get a technology job somewhere to better support my family. It's a simple matter of cash flow. I do love airplanes, and especially RVs, but my family comes first. Always. If you are one of the regulars, PLEASE donate yearly. It literally means the difference between the site staying and going away”

If a member really needs to have a gold star or is in need of adulation for supporting VAF, they can simply go to the list, find their name, and print it out to be posted in a public place of their choice. I gladly pony up the $25 each year, but expect nothing in return other than my own knowledge that I thanked DR the only way I can. To institute any system whereby the membership can see who pays and who does not promotes a caste system, which I assume that none of us would really want. Do we?

Actually, this proposal was made by another poster on this thread…ask him!

Additionally, I have another question, and please don't take it personal as it is not intended in that fashion. Are you acting as an authorized agent for DR? Or, is this poll based on your personal philosophy that Doug should be compensated for his time (and he should) spent running this great site? While I could be mistaken, he has not made any comments on this poll.

I initiated this thread on my own volition. I am not representing Doug as an authorized agent. I am just like everyone else, searching for solutions to make this site work for Doug and his family.


Regards,
 
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Be careful or you just might get what you ask for.

My Opinion Only....no one asked for it so it's worth nothing but, here it is:

Be careful or you just might get what you ask for.

I really can't believe that folks are trying to jump in and do the job of the web master. I think he has a pretty good idea of what he's doing :).

When we pay our tithing in Church we simply pay it. When we help someone we just do it. We never tell anyone or everyone that we paid our tithing or that we helped someone, that would be bragging. What happened to folks just being humble and donating to the site and letting it go? Why do folks insist on posting here and telling everyone that they donated? If folks want to know who donated they can go look for themselves. Really....what's that all about :confused:?

There is a fund raiser on this site every year.....a pretty good reminder if you want to donate.....and you don't even need to tell everyone, you can just donate and feel like you helped all by yourself.

Please take notice of who is making all of the noise, it's not the folks that are providing instructions and overall help to the newbies.

Keep in mind that there is always plenty of discussion behind the scenes, as you can imagine that is the case here.

Read this slowly:

'IF' this web site had a fee, or folks start getting stars for donating, or whatever....think about what might really happen. I can name at least 20 folks off the top of my head who would no longer visit the site and who would no longer help all of the newbies by answering their questions and holding their hands. These are 20 people that are regular well known contributers that are helping newbies. These are 'the guys' that have built a few airplanes and who know what they are doing. These are some of the RV experts and gurus that help here on a regular basis. They have already built their airplanes and are only here for fun and to kill time and to help out a newbie once in a while. 'These guys' ARE paying by giving their time AND their expertise. Now you are going to make them pay an annual fee or shame them into a gold star for helping......really :confused:?

Take notice that none of 'these guys' are posting here and offering their opinion. That's because these are NOT the guys that have 5,000 posts because they are responding to every siingle thread (like many do :eek:), they are the guys that only reply with 'real' and 'constructive' and 'informative' answers to help someone.

IMO these are the same 20 guys that actually supply the meat and potatoes to the forums (not the 'noise') so you could basically kiss the forums good-bye. Where will this site be without 'these guys'?

Savvy :rolleyes:???

Be careful what you ask for, there are plenty of 'free sites' and 'yahoo sites'....yes....times ARE changing.

And YES....I do encourage you all to donate, but you don't have to shout it from the rooftops, "Hey Everyone, I donated....look at me" :).
 
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I like how Doug has it set up. I do not like that people want to change the system, rather than think up innovative ways to make VAF more profitable to the owner. hold some fund raisers or potlucks or garage sales. whatever. do it yourself, rather than trying to convince Doug to change the way he has set up his system.
 
I voted no, I think the recovery from the site will decrease significantly from such a change. I for one will never revisit a site if I have to pay to see it. In my opinion you will destroy your reach, advertising revenue will fall and you will loose advertisers.

Find some products, diversify. Leverage rather than gouge.

Just my opinion...
 
@ Tom V.....
Had you posted in your first message that a portion of the text contained therein was not your own, your intent would have been much more evident, and less confusing.
I do not enter the site via the home page, and as such was not aware that you were quoting Doug. My apologies.
As to the instant question, I still do not need a reminder that we owe it to Doug to send a few Shekels his way to keep the doors open as it were.
 
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