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Cylinder Shop Pirep?

Dan Langhout

Well Known Member
Looking to have some cylinder work done on my ECI Nickel cylinders. I was given a good recommendation for Gibson Aviation in El Reno, OK for cylinder work. Anyone else have any pireps on Gibson?

Thanks!
 
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No experience with them, but had some cylinder work done at Lycon in Visalia and am very happy with the results.
 
I have used sals cylinders for years. He is just north of dallas, tx. He does great work at a reasonable price.

Contact: 214-630-7880

I have also used lycon on california for new cylinder port/polish. They do rock star work.
 
I have used sal since he was at j?s in Dallas. He does great work.

Bob burns
Rv-4 n82rb
 
If you have ECI Titan Nickle cylinders as described, I would toss them in the dumpster and get new Superior or Lycoming cylinder assemblies. Life is too short. I have experienced the heartbreak of the same ECI nickle types and never want to be through that again. Understand I have an emotional response based on feeling like ECI's incompetence tried to kill me, with no sympathy from the follow-on company Continental Titan. So if you do re-do the original cylinders I wish you luck and hope the overhaul shop can make them well. In fact I hope it truly is so.

I would go so far as stating that if anybody is flying early to mid 2000's ECI Titan nickle cylinders they need to swap them out for something else before they cause serious bottom end damage after delaminating the nickle and sending the sluff into the rest of the engine. I wish somebody had told me before the ECI nickle time bombs went off in my engine.

Jim
 
I’ve dealt with Gibson and ElReno and had great service from both. Excellent reputations.
 
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Failed Cerminil cylinders

“I would go so far as stating that if anybody is flying early to mid 2000's ECI Titan nickle cylinders they need to swap them out for something else before they cause serious bottom end damage after delaminating the nickle and sending the sluff into the rest of the engine. I wish somebody had told me before the ECI nickle time bombs went off in my engine.”
jliltd

Sorry to step into the OP’s request for a pirep but just looking for some info:
I’ve had good luck with Cerminil cylinders and back when ECI was an active repair facility I would send “Lycoming” cores for overhaul with the Cerminil process. One set I have personal knowledge of has gone well over a 1000 hrs. I would be interested in hearing more about what Jim discovered.
 
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I had the B series cylinders which were deemed by the AD to have no redeeming value and if removed needed to be scrapped. Back when the AD came out ECI started reworking B category cylinders on experimental airframes. They did this because the AD really doesn't apply to experimental aircraft. However, they replaced the cylinders on type certified aircraft. Which would have been the right thing to do on EABs also.

A couple of years later (and 100 hours later) the ring delamination and coating failure reared it's ugly head. The nickle coating sluffed off in sections and worked it's way past the rings and into the bottom end. There was piston scuffing in the process. I had Barrett Performance do a complete teardown and inspection and replaced all the cylinder assemblies with new Superior through-hardened steel assemblies. I have sworn off coated cylinders for the time being. I live in the high dry desert and fly regularly so steel cylinders are a good fit. Plus steel cylinders don't tend to burn much oil at all compared to coated cylinders.

I could have saved a lot of time and money if I had understood what was going on and replaced just the cylinders when I bought the aircraft (3rd owner). ECI did the wrong thing to experimental owners by reworking the category B cylinders instead of replacing them.

Jim
 
Thanks . . . . .

. . . . . for the pireps on Gibson (and the others). Just for information purposes - my ECI Nickel Carbide cylinders are 2010 vintage - so somewhat beyond the earlier ECI fiasco. That said, the issue I am trying to solve is oil consumption that started out about 7 hrs/qt when new and has increased to around 3-4 hrs/qt - as well as turning black in about 5 hours after an oil change. TTSN on cylinders is 550 hours.
 
Its very likely your cylinders are glazed. They can be cleaned up in the field with a ball hone. Continental SIL002 details which ball hone is used on nickel bore cylinders.
 
. . . . . for the pireps on Gibson (and the others). Just for information purposes - my ECI Nickel Carbide cylinders are 2010 vintage - so somewhat beyond the earlier ECI fiasco. That said, the issue I am trying to solve is oil consumption that started out about 7 hrs/qt when new and has increased to around 3-4 hrs/qt - as well as turning black in about 5 hours after an oil change. TTSN on cylinders is 550 hours.

I am not saying you have the same problem I had. But I had similar symptoms when things started going bad. Oil consumption increased and the oil started getting dark quickly. Even right after a new oil change. Compression test had air coming out of oil filler neck for number 1. Scoped the cyliders with camera and numberl 1 had the large areas of coating missing and scoring on top of cylinder. I have some photos of the cylinders after removal I can look up later.

Jim
 
Ring Delamination

The "ring delamination" in ECI Titans refers to delamination of the outer molybdenum plasma coating on the upper compression ring. I have the Type "A" ECI Titans of that time period and have 900 hours on them, and periodically check for the presence of molybdenum in oil analysis, and none has shown up so far. Apparently, this phenomenon did not warrant an AD or SB, since it is not a safety-of-flight issue, and results only in increased blow-by and slightly reduced compression. I have not heard of this phenomenon causing the nickel coating on the cylinders to shed.
 
Sorry to step into the OP?s request for a pirep but just looking for some info:
I?ve had good luck with Cerminil cylinders and back when ECI was an active repair facility I would send ?Lycoming? cores for overhaul with the Cerminil process. One set I have personal knowledge of has gone well over a 1000 hrs. I would be interested in hearing more about what Jim discovered.

I did the same on my engine; sent my first-run original Lycoming cylinders to ECI for overhaul and Cerminil plating circa 2005. Have 1600+ hours on it so far with no indications of delamination. Oil consumption has increased from maybe 10-12 hours/qt when new to around 6 hrs/qt now. Not great but still serviceable.
 
Honing

Its very likely your cylinders are glazed. They can be cleaned up in the field with a ball hone. Continental SIL002 details which ball hone is used on nickel bore cylinders.

I have read that Continental pub - frankly, that was what I had in mind, and I still might take that approach. Compression has always been great at each annual (78 or better) and oil analysis (done every oil change) has always come up clean. Had other advice suggesting "professional" help and I will admit the past ECI Nickel problems have given me pause.
 
You may want to compare the cost of having your ECI cylinders reworked/overhauled vs. new Lycoming cylinder/piston assemblies. The difference may not be as much as you think.
 
Price

You may want to compare the cost of having your ECI cylinders reworked/overhauled vs. new Lycoming cylinder/piston assemblies. The difference may not be as much as you think.

I have - it's about double the price. However, I actually am considering going that route given the somewhat variable experience that folks seem to have had with the ECI nickel cylinders.
 
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