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  #1  
Old 11-11-2020, 09:44 PM
airguy's Avatar
airguy airguy is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Garden City, Tx
Posts: 5,312
Default Another Plane Power failure

After reading all about the various issues with them, and humming along happily like I had good sense with mine, you guys all get your chance at "told ya so"...

Mine failed this morning at 720 hours, enroute of course, loud obnoxious whine in the headset and less than half the normal output. I could see the voltage drop and battery discharge when I pulled back on the RPM or added load, I was getting maybe (generously) 25 amps out of a 60 amp alternator.

B&C primary will be ordered tomorrow. I'm sure glad I installed a backup B&C, it took the load just like it always has and didn't care, kept soldiering on.
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Greg Niehues - SEL, IFR, Repairman Cert.
Garden City, TX VAF 2021 dues paid
N16GN flying 750 hrs and counting; IO360, SDS, WWRV200, Dynon HDX, IFD440
Built an off-plan RV9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.
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  #2  
Old 11-12-2020, 05:16 AM
Foghorn's Avatar
Foghorn Foghorn is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 175
Default

I have the same set up but havent flown yet. Id be happy with 725 hrs. Do you have a blast tube on the alternators? Im not planning to have them but curious what others have done.

Thanks
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Jeff Parker
RV8 Fastback - Building (N767TS)
C195 - Flying (N4469C)
2020 dues paid
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  #3  
Old 11-12-2020, 06:42 AM
BillL BillL is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 5,738
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by airguy View Post
After reading all about the various issues with them, and humming along happily like I had good sense with mine, you guys all get your chance at "told ya so"...

Mine failed this morning at 720 hours, enroute of course, loud obnoxious whine in the headset and less than half the normal output. I could see the voltage drop and battery discharge when I pulled back on the RPM or added load, I was getting maybe (generously) 25 amps out of a 60 amp alternator.

B&C primary will be ordered tomorrow. I'm sure glad I installed a backup B&C, it took the load just like it always has and didn't care, kept soldiering on.
Likely the rectifier bridge, easily replaceable, but would only make a good backup. I will be happy with 720 hrs and plan for a replacement at 500 if it lasts that long. Since a B&C lasts twice as long as a good PP, the cost per hour is the same or less anyway. My 10-friend just replaced his at 500. We will take it apart and prepare it for a spare. He has a dual alternator system.

I did a complete teardown and report on a 520 hr PP, 60A that failed the rectifier bridge like yours. Everything else inside was good, bearings had good lube, even the brushes were only 25% worn to limit. Lots of life to go, just that one diode. A more robust diode bridge can be purchased in the aftermarket. 500 hrs is a good time to tear down and replace it. Clean interior and reuse the bearings, check brushes, and move on. The pulley bearing is available so it could be easily replaced, but the SRE bearing is special and not available outside Taiwan in quantities less than 5000.

Please take it apart and let me/us know if the slip ring end bearing has the expansion control rings on the OD of the outer race. That is the key to rebuildability as that bearing is not exported from Taiwan that I could find. Although, I got a quote directly from the NTN/Taiwan factory, although 5000/4999 is too many to have on hand.
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Bill

RV-7
Lord Kelvin:
I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about,
and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you
cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge
is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.

Last edited by BillL : 11-13-2020 at 07:36 AM.
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  #4  
Old 11-12-2020, 07:10 AM
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bjdecker bjdecker is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Georgetown, TX
Posts: 491
Default And the difference is....?

Hopefully this question will result in some data being offered up.

Aside from the gold anodization, the B&C LX60 and PP AL12-EI60 look to be identical children of the same parent -- NipponDenso and Great-Big-Lucky-Industry-Factory #5.

I would love to understand B&C's engineering, supply chain, validation, testing, etc. that make their clone better than Hartzell's clone.

What're the differences, why are they different, what drove them to be different, how are those differences managed, validated and controlled.

Just asking before I drop $750 on another spinny-mechanical-thing...

Cheers!
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Brian Decker
Retired Firmware Guy and Airplane Builder

2020 RV-14 QB -- Under construction - Tailcone & Empennage Complete.
2018 RV-7 QB -- Built, Flying
2007 RV-7 QB -- Built, Drowned, Resurrected and flying
1998 RV-8 QB -- Started, Sold
1986 Mooney 205SE
1980 Mooney 231

Aided and abetted building a number of other RV's.
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  #5  
Old 11-12-2020, 10:52 AM
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Raymo Raymo is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Richmond Hill, GA (KLHW)
Posts: 2,287
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foghorn View Post
I have the same set up but havent flown yet. Id be happy with 725 hrs. Do you have a blast tube on the alternators? Im not planning to have them but curious what others have done.

Thanks
PP requires a blast tube on the aft end of the alternator. Mine failed with < 300 hours. Replaced with externally regulated B&C. I think the externally regulated PP would also be fine but wasn't going to take another chance.
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Ray
RV-7A - Slider - N495KL - First flt 27 Jan 17
O-360-A4M w/ AFP FM-150 FI, Dual PMags, Vetterman Trombone Exh, SkyTech starter, BandC Alt (PP failed after 226 hrs)
Catto 3 blade NLE, FlightLines Interior, James cowl, plenum & intake, Anti-Splat -14 seat mod and nose gear support
All lines by TSFlightLines (aka Hoser)
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  #6  
Old 11-12-2020, 12:26 PM
airguy's Avatar
airguy airguy is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Garden City, Tx
Posts: 5,312
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymo View Post
PP requires a blast tube on the aft end of the alternator. Mine failed with < 300 hours. Replaced with externally regulated B&C. I think the externally regulated PP would also be fine but wasn't going to take another chance.
That would definitely be part of my issue then - I did not install a blast tube on the Plane Power alternator. Still, it made it 720 hours.

I already ordered the B&C LX60 and external regulator this morning. Once and done.
__________________
Greg Niehues - SEL, IFR, Repairman Cert.
Garden City, TX VAF 2021 dues paid
N16GN flying 750 hrs and counting; IO360, SDS, WWRV200, Dynon HDX, IFD440
Built an off-plan RV9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.
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  #7  
Old 11-12-2020, 02:53 PM
Marc Bourget Marc Bourget is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Stockton, California
Posts: 323
Default

I apologize if this was raised earlier, here, or in another thread, but I would like to see a correlation between Alt rpm at peak rpm and cruise and MTBF (mean time between failure).

Before I "woke up" I was going to install an alternator but found out that the pulleys I had available would spin the Alt over 9000 rpm at TO rpm of 2700.

Alternator output flattens out about 6000 rpm. I spoke to a guy over the phone and the data he provided gave 11,300 rpm for the alternator.

Short bearing life doesn't surprise me when they're spun that high.

Maybe a poll or equivalent?

FWIW
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  #8  
Old 11-12-2020, 03:00 PM
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rv8ch rv8ch is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: LSGY
Posts: 3,544
Default bigger pulley

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Bourget View Post
I apologize if this was raised earlier, here, or in another thread, but I would like to see a correlation between Alt rpm at peak rpm and cruise and MTBF (mean time between failure).

Before I "woke up" I was going to install an alternator but found out that the pulleys I had available would spin the Alt over 9000 rpm at TO rpm of 2700.

Alternator output flattens out about 6000 rpm. I spoke to a guy over the phone and the data he provided gave 11,300 rpm for the alternator.

Short bearing life doesn't surprise me when they're spun that high.

Maybe a poll or equivalent?

FWIW
I installed a larger pulley on my alternator. No idea if it will make any real difference. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/PWM-185
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http://rv8.ch
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  #9  
Old 11-12-2020, 06:00 PM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 9,787
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rv8ch View Post
I installed a larger pulley on my alternator. No idea if it will make any real difference. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/PWM-185
Mickey, does that pulley slip right on the Plane Power 60 amp alternator?
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Dan Horton
RV-8 SS
Barrett IO-390
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  #10  
Old 11-12-2020, 06:48 PM
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pilotkms pilotkms is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: WARNER ROBINS, GA
Posts: 453
Default

Greg - sent u a PM.
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RV 7A RV #9700 May 2017
N325KS the Flying K
Built in SoCal KCCB, now in GA @ KPXE
600+ Hours & 7X cross the USA
OSH flyin 2018 & 2019 & Petit Jean 2019
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