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  #1  
Old 11-08-2020, 12:40 PM
949Aviator 949Aviator is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: San Diego
Posts: 7
Default Air Conditioning Advice

Is it worth putting air conditioning in? Currently in my Cessna A/C is going to 10k. There have been times at say Vegas or Palm Springs where A/C sure would have been nice. Is the additional weight in the plane, cost, and extra complications worth it?
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  #2  
Old 11-08-2020, 12:49 PM
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airguy airguy is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Garden City, Tx
Posts: 5,314
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My personal opinion, but I have never understood the air conditioning thing in an RV. The airplane climbs so well that it's only a couple minutes until the outside air temp is dropping noticeably, and they have excellent air ventilation for those few minutes. In exchange for AC for those few minutes of flight you are paying high dollar and adding 40-50 pounds to the airplane that you have to haul around for every flight hour, reducing your payload and looking for a time to break and add maintenance cost, as well as loading the engine during takeoff/climbout when you least need the parasitic loss.

I just don't get it - and I live in west Texas where 100+ is an everyday summertime norm.
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Greg Niehues - SEL, IFR, Repairman Cert.
Garden City, TX VAF 2021 dues paid
N16GN flying 750 hrs and counting; IO360, SDS, WWRV200, Dynon HDX, IFD440
Built an off-plan RV9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.
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  #3  
Old 11-08-2020, 12:50 PM
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scard scard is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cedar Park, TX
Posts: 3,197
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An RV gets to 10k' exceptionally quickly. "Climb and maintain 72 degrees."
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  #4  
Old 11-08-2020, 01:05 PM
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Plummit Plummit is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Covid Country-SoCal
Posts: 1,221
Default But!!!

RV's may be able to climb fast but when it's hot enough to use AC, keeping the engine cool can be a problem. We have been down in the heat (100*+), throttled back to keep the oil and CHT's out of the red, and been able to climb at only 100-200 fpm.

There's also airspace concerns (at least out here on the left coast), that prohibits climbing to cooler temps. So sure, RV's may be able to climb fast, but AC can provide passenger relief when it's hot and you're down low or on the ground. You have to decide if it's worth the effort and weight penalty.

If I were building my -10 I would install it without blinking.

-Marc
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Last edited by Plummit : 11-08-2020 at 01:28 PM.
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  #5  
Old 11-08-2020, 02:15 PM
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airguy airguy is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Garden City, Tx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plummit View Post
RV's may be able to climb fast but when it's hot enough to use AC, keeping the engine cool can be a problem. We have been down in the heat (100*+), throttled back to keep the oil and CHT's out of the red, and been able to climb at only 100-200 fpm.

There's also airspace concerns (at least out here on the left coast), that prohibits climbing to cooler temps. So sure, RV's may be able to climb fast, but AC can provide passenger relief when it's hot and you're down low or on the ground. You have to decide if it's worth the effort and weight penalty.

If I were building my -10 I would install it without blinking.

-Marc
Thread Drift, but if you have an RV that can only climb at 200 fpm due to cooling concerns, it's not a weather or air conditioning issue - you've got severe baffling or mixture problems.
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Greg Niehues - SEL, IFR, Repairman Cert.
Garden City, TX VAF 2021 dues paid
N16GN flying 750 hrs and counting; IO360, SDS, WWRV200, Dynon HDX, IFD440
Built an off-plan RV9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.

Last edited by airguy : 11-08-2020 at 02:47 PM.
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  #6  
Old 11-08-2020, 02:56 PM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airguy View Post
Thread Drift, but if you have an RV that can only climb at 200 fpm due to cooling concerns, it's not a weather or air conditioning issue - you've got severe baffling or mixture problems.
+1

I am able to climb at 2500 and WOT all the way to 14K with CHTs below 400, assuming I run 25* of advance, on 90* days in my 10. My oil temps get to 225 in the climb, but I am OK with that and doesn't warrant a bigger cooler for me (it drops back to 185 once I level off). If I don't dial the advance back to 25, I can get 430+ CHTs. I feel for the Pmag guys that can't dial back the advance. After 7-8K', the stock EI advances are simply too much for the less dense air while in a ROP climb. You're losing power and generating excess heat.

Larry
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Last edited by lr172 : 11-08-2020 at 03:08 PM.
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  #7  
Old 11-08-2020, 10:26 PM
scorwin scorwin is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: South DFW, Texas
Posts: 64
Default Installing in a -10

I live in the DFW area, have family in Tucson. So, yeah. My RV-10 will have A/C in it. Already bought in. Soon will be installed. Long taxi, waiting for clearance, flying in bravo around DFW at 3500ft in 90F weather is not enjoyable for myself or anyone else in the plane.

YMMV
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  #8  
Old 11-09-2020, 02:49 PM
DRMA DRMA is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Sugar Land, TX
Posts: 450
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My wife made the decision easy for me. When she agreed to my building the RV-10, she stated that if I wanted her to fly with me it needed to have A/C. Made my decision very easy.

I also find it very nice to have on hot Houston area summer days during taxi, takeoff, and when in the pattern for landing. I'm glad I installed in in my RV-10.
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  #9  
Old 11-09-2020, 03:53 PM
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BlackhawkSP BlackhawkSP is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airguy View Post
My personal opinion, but I have never understood the air conditioning thing in an RV. The airplane climbs so well that it's only a couple minutes until the outside air temp is dropping noticeably, and they have excellent air ventilation for those few minutes. In exchange for AC for those few minutes of flight you are paying high dollar and adding 40-50 pounds to the airplane that you have to haul around for every flight hour, reducing your payload and looking for a time to break and add maintenance cost, as well as loading the engine during takeoff/climbout when you least need the parasitic loss.

I just don't get it - and I live in west Texas where 100+ is an everyday summertime norm.
Ditto this for me. All the extra complexity, weight, and electrical loads, for the minimal times that you would use it most places, makes it a "no way" for me. Even on a hot/humid day (I'm in Indiana), we would be at 8K plus feet in no time enjoying free air conditioning, cruising to our destination. The standard temperature lapse is 2 degrees Centigrade, or 3-1/2 degrees Fahrenheit, for every thousand feet you climb:-). Stay lighter, keep it simpler, go faster, and farther on the same fuel than an air-conditioned 10.
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  #10  
Old 11-09-2020, 04:00 PM
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Plummit Plummit is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Covid Country-SoCal
Posts: 1,221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lr172 View Post
+1

I am able to climb at 2500 and WOT all the way to 14K with CHTs below 400, assuming I run 25* of advance, on 90* days in my 10. My oil temps get to 225 in the climb, but I am OK with that and doesn't warrant a bigger cooler for me (it drops back to 185 once I level off). If I don't dial the advance back to 25, I can get 430+ CHTs. I feel for the Pmag guys that can't dial back the advance. After 7-8K', the stock EI advances are simply too much for the less dense air while in a ROP climb. You're losing power and generating excess heat.

Larry
Well Larry, you are just a special guy! VAF is rife with stories about keeping the engine cool during hot weather ops.

Yeah, if my plane hasn't been run and I get it and start climbing, I an do pretty good at keeping the temps under control. But if I fly somewhere that has an OAT of 100+ degrees, then land for fuel and try to climb out of there.... Well lets just say it's a slow climb until I get to cooler weather.

Wish you were closer to look over my system and figure out why I have problems like several other VAF members. ;-)

-Marc
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