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  #41  
Old 10-14-2017, 04:50 PM
TS Flightlines TS Flightlines is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ridgeland, SC
Posts: 2,714
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Hey Tom----thats sort of what all of us are looking for---actual fuel pressure numbers. And you say you havent had a pressure issue that you know of.
So my question would be is there something different about your 12 that others having the pressure issue dont have on their planes?
NOT fanning a flame war here, but trying to understand why some are having issues and others are not, in a supposed plans built package. Also trying to compare apples to apples.

So if you had 2 planes in the same area, flying at the same time, 1 had a pressure issue and one did not, both supposedly built to plans, then whats creating the pressure issue----IF in fact it IS an actual low fuel pressure and not and instrumentation issue?
Thats something I think we all would like to know. Are any of the SLSA RV12's having a pressure warning issue? We've been trying to fins out.

Understand---we dont have a 12 here that we can do some testing with. Sure would be awesome to get some data.
Any volunteers? Email me.

Tom
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Joint Venture with Aircraft Specialty
Teflon Hose Assemblies for Experimentals
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RV7 Tail Kit Completed, Fuse started-Pay as I go Plan
Ridgeland, SC
www.tsflightlines.com, www.asflightlines.com
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  #42  
Old 10-14-2017, 04:57 PM
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Phantom30 Phantom30 is offline
 
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Location: Coeur d'Alene, ID/Casa Grande, AZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
The electric pump by it self will not produce normal in flight pressure value that you get with the engine drive pump operating.
2.5 PSI is about right, and is more than enough to operate the engine at cruise power.
The design philosophy of the lower pressure pump is that with an in flight engine drive pump failure, the pressure will drop into the yellow range and que the pilot that something is not as it should be.
I would sure like to know why my fuel pressure drops to around 2.1 psi following a cross-country flight (4 gals remaining in tank) during decent from altitude? Engine @ 4900 rpm....up to that point it had been in normal range (this has happened many times...

Edit: this next annual, I intend to install a mechanical oil & fuel psi gauges..will report back on findings when able to compare data..
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Last edited by Phantom30 : 10-14-2017 at 09:05 PM.
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  #43  
Old 10-14-2017, 05:11 PM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TS Flightlines View Post
trying to understand why some are having issues and others are not, in a supposed plans built package. Also trying to compare apples to apples.
To add some clarity....

There are now 563 (that are known about) RV-12's competed and flown.

I realize there are some that have had low fuel pressure indications but it appears to still be a small percentage of the total fleet.

I don't have an answer for those that are having low pressure indications but work is still being done to try and find an answer.

Tom has previously promoted that none of the RV-12's that have incorporated his aftermarket hose kit have had low fuel pressure indications. Perhaps if someone that does have low pressure indications was interested in changing out their hoses, we could find out if his hose set does make a difference and possibly have some additional info that could be used to solve it.
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  #44  
Old 10-14-2017, 05:23 PM
Aircraft Specialty Aircraft Specialty is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Oconomowoc, WI
Posts: 476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
To add some clarity....

There are now 563 (that are known about) RV-12's competed and flown.

I realize there are some that have had low fuel pressure indications but it appears to still be a small percentage of the total fleet.

I don't have an answer for those that are having low pressure indications but work is still being done to try and find an answer.

Tom has previously promoted that none of the RV-12's that have incorporated his aftermarket hose kit have had low fuel pressure indications. Perhaps if someone that does have low pressure indications was interested in changing out their hoses, we could find out if his hose set does make a difference and possibly have some additional info that could be used to solve it.
Scott,

Tom and I would be happy to try that to see if there is any change. It would be an interesting data point. In all actuality, nothing might change....or it might. Our kit is flying on about 50-60 RV-12 aircraft, which is only about 10% of the flying fleet. So, it is a lot smaller sampling than the factory hoses.

As Tom mentioned earlier, I did the prototype work on the RV-12 fuel retrofit kit along with some awesome beta testers who really helped us out making it a smooth installation. None of the beta testers we worked with wanted to replace the factory kit due to low fuel pressure issues. They wanted a hose installation that would last for the life of the airframe. So, we weren't working to "fix" a problem, but rather create a package that didn't have hose components that needed to be replaced at 5 year intervals.

We know that a lot of people purchased our kit at the 5 year replacement point for the rubber hoses, but we don't know if anyone has purchased our kit to try to get rid of a low fuel pressure problem. All we know is that no one has come out and told us that they are experiencing low pressure with our hoses. That could be for one of two reasons. One reason is that maybe they are not experiencing low pressure. The second is that maybe they are still experiencing low pressure but have not mentioned it because it is not a completely uncommon occurrence.

I am presuming that the factory RV-12 is not experiencing any low pressure indications? If it ever does, we would be happy to work with engineering to see if the fuel kit makes a difference.

As a matter of fact, if Vans would like to install our fuel kit, thermostat kit, and remote oil sender kit on their factory -12 and then consider approving it as an option for SLSA owners, we would be happy to provide whatever data is necessary. We have had a number of SLSA owners approach us about the kits, ESPECIALLY the Oil Thermostat which is very nice in cold climates. However, we are unable to sell them these packages because the factory has not tested/approved them for SLSA aircraft. Contact me offline if you are interested in discussing.

Based on the fact that some users have experienced low pressure with lower fuel quantities in their tank, is there any possibility of a venting issue? Or any data that exists for the vented cap versus the secondary vent?

Steve
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Last edited by Aircraft Specialty : 10-14-2017 at 05:46 PM.
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  #45  
Old 10-14-2017, 08:53 PM
AirHound AirHound is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: St Louis, MO
Posts: 324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirHound View Post
Was running up the engine with out top or bottom cowl and notice a low fuel pressure warning which stopped when closing throttle and changing relative position to 10-12kt surface wind while turning around the apron. My carb vent lines are the prescribed length 3 or 4 inches and are tucked behind the carb bowl clips. Could being cowless and direct wind pressure and turning prop wind pressure impact fuel pressure?
I'm one of the 50-60 12's sporting the TS Flightlines fuel line system. On the contrary, regarding the discussion about low fuel pressure, mine is normal to borederline yellow (occasionally blinking a few times-then normal range) when fully configured for flight.
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  #46  
Old 10-14-2017, 08:58 PM
alexe alexe is online now
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 300
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Gents,

I too have had sporadic low fuel pressure issues that I have never been able to correlate to anything. Just yesterday, on climb out on a full tank, my fuel pressure dipped to a bit below 3 lbs. A minute or two later, it returned to normal with the same power settings and angle of climb. The previous incident was about a month ago while in cruise at 8500 feet with approximately an hour of fuel used from the tank. It also cleared up by itself in a few minutes. There have been many more of these occurrences in the past. I have a stock fuel system installed per the KAI with the new venting system (undrilled fuel cap).

My fuel pressure sender is not one of the ones that were effected by the improper venting issue, so I have ruled that out as a possible cause. None of my past conditional inspections has revealed any foreign matter in the tank screen or the gascollator. Engine performance never changes during these episodes, but it still tends to make me a bit nervous.

Alex
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  #47  
Old 10-14-2017, 09:44 PM
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KALEWIS KALEWIS is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Jackson, OH
Posts: 489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexe View Post
Gents,

I too have had sporadic low fuel pressure issues that I have never been able to correlate to anything. Just yesterday, on climb out on a full tank, my fuel pressure dipped to a bit below 3 lbs. A minute or two later, it returned to normal with the same power settings and angle of climb. The previous incident was about a month ago while in cruise at 8500 feet with approximately an hour of fuel used from the tank. It also cleared up by itself in a few minutes. There have been many more of these occurrences in the past. I have a stock fuel system installed per the KAI with the new venting system (undrilled fuel cap).

My fuel pressure sender is not one of the ones that were effected by the improper venting issue, so I have ruled that out as a possible cause. None of my past conditional inspections has revealed any foreign matter in the tank screen or the gascollator. Engine performance never changes during these episodes, but it still tends to make me a bit nervous.

Alex

Same issue here. Exactly. It is sporadic, maybe more often when cruising at higher altitudes. Engine runs fine, no smell of fuel.
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  #48  
Old 10-15-2017, 08:56 AM
TS Flightlines TS Flightlines is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ridgeland, SC
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Morning all----
WE have a request--and we realize that its asking alot. WE would like to know those of you that are having an actual pressure issue---seemingly a real pressure scenario and not instrumentation. WE know that some of you have tested things with a mechanical gauge and have verified a drop in pressure. WE would like to know the details and the data of this. Of equal importance, we would like to know if any of the SLSA RV12's are experiencing this issue.

Obviously a pressure drop is a serious issue. But, some of you have stated that the engine maintains power, no skipping or sluggishness. Several of you have stated that you get the indication after cruise, decending. What I would like to know is if of you have had an engine power loss, and what the fuel pressure was indicating----if you know that. (You might have been alittle busy and not noticed.)

In all fairness, we would also like to know if any of you with the TS Flightlines/Aircraft Specialty fuel hose kit are experiencing similar issues. Seems that about a year and a half ago I asked that question, and got zero answers. That lead to my statement about our kit. So CERTAINLY, we would like to know.

For those of you that wish, you can contact me by email at tsflightlines@gmail, or Steve at steve@aircraftspecialty.com. I'm available by phone also.

Thanks to the members for the help!
Tom
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Tom Swearengen, TS Flightlines LLC, AS Flightlines
Joint Venture with Aircraft Specialty
Teflon Hose Assemblies for Experimentals
Proud Vendor for RV1, Donator to VAF
RV7 Tail Kit Completed, Fuse started-Pay as I go Plan
Ridgeland, SC
www.tsflightlines.com, www.asflightlines.com
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  #49  
Old 10-15-2017, 04:46 PM
RFSchaller RFSchaller is offline
 
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,916
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I have a switched pump. The biggest flag to me that I left it on after leveling off is fuel flow. In cruise with just the engine driven pump running I see 4.5 GPH, but when I turn on the electric pump it goes up to 5.5 GPH.
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  #50  
Old 10-15-2017, 11:50 PM
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JPalese JPalese is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: KHXF
Posts: 143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aircraft Specialty View Post
Scott,

SNIP

... They wanted a hose installation that would last for the life of the airframe. So, we weren't working to "fix" a problem, but rather create a package that didn't have hose components that needed to be replaced at 5 year intervals.

SNIP

. . . As a matter of fact, if Vans would like to install our fuel kit, thermostat kit, and remote oil sender kit on their factory -12 and then consider approving it as an option for SLSA owners, we would be happy to provide whatever data is necessary. We have had a number of SLSA owners approach us about the kits, ESPECIALLY the Oil Thermostat which is very nice in cold climates.

SNIP

Steve
Hi Steve:

As the operator of an S-LSA RV-12 used in a flight school in SE Wisconsin I would dearly love to have lifetime fuel hoses and an oil thermostat - our winters are long and cold.

Since you and I are in the same locale Steve I wonder if Van's would allow you to install those items on our aircraft, periodically inspect them and send the data you collect to the factory so blanket S-LSA approval can be given?

Just a thought. I think I'll call Gus this coming week and ask him about this idea.
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