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Departure fee from KBED

S

SHIPCHIEF

Well Known Member
I just received an invoice of $10 for departing Massport Hanscom Field (KBED) on 12/2/2011 @ 3:01 PM.
Vector-us.com is the billing service.
I went to KBED's site, what a bunch of fees! :eek:
I got off lightly.
Unfortunately, N89SE has never left the State of Washington,
doesn't have an Airworthiness Certificate, and has never flown. (maybe this year?)
I emailed Vector-us.com, and left an after hours phone message to the manager's office at KBED.
I've been billed for parking fees at airports that I already paid for, mostly in California, but never before at an airport I've never been to, let alone in an airplane that has been registered, but never issued and airworthiness certificate, and has never flown.
Until now I've been able to prevent double billing by paying with a check.
This one is new for me.
How much trouble is this going to be? I hate spending time fighting this stuff.
 
Good Luck! I used to teach there in the late 90's. Massport truly sucks to deal with. Hope your experience is better than any of my dealings with them have been.
 
Send it back with a statement such as

" I have never flown to your lovely state but look forward to in the future. No payment is included since this is an erroneous bill. Good day.
 
The funny thing is I went to the billing agency's website and this blurb is in the very center.

Vector's comprehensive solution bills, services and collects landing fees without any airport labor and yields 100% aircraft operator identification and a 99% collections rate.
Click to expand...

Maybe they should bump that identification part down to 99.9%? :)
 
KBED "Fees"

A couple of my neighbors here in Mass have received the same bills by just flying near the airport. Both had mode S transponders.

A phone call solved the situation for both of them.

Mitch

RV4 flying
 
Mitch757 said:
A couple of my neighbors here in Mass have received the same bills by just flying near the airport. Both had mode S transponders.

A phone call solved the situation for both of them.

Mitch

RV4 flying
Click to expand...

...and I thought it would be the FAA that would charge us user fees based on Mode-S transponder returns.

I guess many agencies can get in on the billing act...:rolleyes:
 
az_gila said:
...and I thought it would be the FAA that would charge us user fees based on Mode-S transponder returns. I guess many agencies can get in on the billing act...:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Yep....there's the REAL future of user fees. Fight it while you can.
 
Mitch757 said:
A couple of my neighbors here in Mass have received the same bills by just flying near the airport. Both had mode S transponders.

A phone call solved the situation for both of them.

Mitch

RV4 flying
Click to expand...

Interesting. I have been predicting the use of mode S and ADS-B for user fees for a while but as others have mentioned I didn't think of private companies doing it. None of it is encrypted and your mode s code is broadcast in the clear. Any competent EE would be able to build a receiver to log all mode s capable aircraft flying overhead (assuming the xpdr is configured with the proper mode S code).
 
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Fees

I suspect this will follow the path of what's happened with EMS services in many municipalities.

A few enterprising 'billing services' went town to town selling a new revenue stream. Basically, they monitor police scanners/911 and roll EMS to the scene of every accident - without regard to whether there are any injuries or need for their services - and then bill all involved (even if no services were requested, required or rendered!).

Now, I've no problem with billing people for needed, and requested, services. But this is, at least in my mind, and for lack of a better word, a scam. Even though the services are already taxpayer funded, to the municipality it is just another source of revenue.

It will be (has been?) even easier to adopt to aviation - all you need is a datalink and billing software.

I'm hoping, and will be encouraging, the alphabet groups to get ahead of the curve on this one - it's coming.
 
Jamie said:
... Any competent EE would be able to build a receiver to log all mode s capable aircraft flying overhead (assuming the xpdr is configured with the proper n-number).
Click to expand...

That does it. If I ever install a Mode S transponder, I'm setting it up with DR's N-number. If we ALL did that, imagine the fun we could have, to say nothing of the notariety VAF would receive! :D


[Gulp! ;^) dr]
 
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N8RV said:
That does it. If I ever install a Mode S transponder, I'm setting it up with DR's N-number. If we ALL did that, imagine the fun we could have, to say nothing of the notariety VAF would receive! :D
Click to expand...

I think...correction wanted if necessary.....that the Mode-S signature is frozen when the aircraft is registered. Check your FAA data here to see your Mode-S number:

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Inquiry.aspx

You will find a box with your Mode-S. I assume this is locked in for the particular aircraft and can't be modified by the user. If our mailing address is changed via the recurrent three-year registration cycle, the Mode-S billers will still be able to find us. What I'm not sure about is who configures a Mode-S transponder for a particular aircraft.....must be done by an avionics shop??

Doug is most likely safe from the rest of us. ;)
 
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Fixed

Scott:

Normally, I recommend you, or any mis-billed pilot, send the bill back to MASSPORT with a note to cancel the bill. "Please cancel this bill. The registration number in question is held by me for an airplane that has never flown. It is reserved for a aircraft that is under construction and, obviously, has never flown into KBED." That will be the end of it.

I know the Vector company of Virginia pretty well. They are a contractor to MASSPORT, not an agency. I can tell you that their system is state of the art and has a low error rate -- their continued growth depends on a higher accuracy that the traditional, manual systems. Errors do happen though, and Vector's customer service is super! I understand that their accurate services and cost savings to airport authorities/operators across the county, in fact serve to keep user costs low in those places that would charge them. :(

I forwarded this info to Vector late last night and got a note back that morning instructing their billing folks to fix this. The actual plane was one digit off, 89-E, where the dash was read as your letter, in error.

So, in this case, I don't think you have to send a note, but it would not hurt. (FYI: I have no stake in this, they are not a client.)
 
Mike Coster and All;
Thanks for your input, disscussion, and Mike, a solution.
I recieved a call this 6:07 AM, a voice mail from Sedrick (?) @ Massport.
He confirmed Mike's point that the N number was mistaken and released the bill.
Thanks for the response and support.
It's also an interesting discussion of where our airspace is going as the gov't gets more over-extended and broke.
This forum is GREAT (the Tony Tiger of aviation forums!!) :D
 
Scanning . . .

As I understood it, they had a camera-based system that reads N-numbers off aircraft near the runway thresholds . . .
 
yooper said:
As I understood it, they had a camera-based system that reads N-numbers off aircraft near the runway thresholds . . .
Click to expand...
Regardless of whether there was some camera taking pictures or systems monitoring transponder blips this is not OK!!!!

What happened to the American belief in LIBERTY?

Everyone preaches we must maintain our freedom but has everyone forgotten what the word LIBERTY means?

From the Merriam-Webster Dictionary:
lib·er·ty
noun \ˈli-bər-tē\
plural lib·er·ties
Definition of LIBERTY
1
: the quality or state of being free: a : the power to do as one pleases b : freedom from physical restraint c : freedom from arbitrary or despotic control d : the positive enjoyment of various social, political, or economic rights and privileges e : the power of choice
2
a : a right or immunity enjoyed by prescription or by grant : privilege b : permission especially to go freely within specified limits
Click to expand...

Without LIBERTY there is no freedom. Why is the populous of Massachusetts allowing this breach of liberty at a public airport? Of course, I can answer my own question, MONEY!

Ok, before the moderator hounds come along and delete my post for being too political I will stop. However, though flying is mostly conceived as a privilege, we still must protect our abilities to exercise that privilege when it is threatened.
 
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kevinsrv7.com said:
Another scam at KBED is the 2000 dollar fine for not using a prop lock. And by the way, avgas today there is $7.81. What a bargin.
Click to expand...

A prop lock?!? Really? How how we supose to know these municipality rules? So now I have to carry around dead weight lock and chain to put around my prop?? How can a municipality legitimately impose such rules? Seems to me this is something AOPA would be interested in knowing.

Or perhaps I should just stay west of the Mississippi where insanity isn't the rule.
 
rv9av8tr said:
A prop lock?!? Really? How how we supose to know these municipality rules? So now I have to carry around dead weight lock and chain to put around my prop?? How can a municipality legitimately impose such rules? Seems to me this is something AOPA would be interested in knowing.

Or perhaps I should just stay west of the Mississippi where insanity isn't the rule.
Click to expand...

I'm sure they'll rent you one for a large fee...:)
 
rv9av8tr said:
A prop lock?!? Really? How how we supose to know these municipality rules? So now I have to carry around dead weight lock and chain to put around my prop?? How can a municipality legitimately impose such rules? Seems to me this is something AOPA would be interested in knowing.

Or perhaps I should just stay west of the Mississippi where insanity isn't the rule.
Click to expand...

Yup, Kevin is right. As I recall, they want 2 locks on the aircraft and certainly one is a prop lock.

A keyed ignition and either a hangar door, prop lock, throttle lock or suitable other means is their intention.

At least there is no aircraft tax in taxachusetts for the time being!

We do have some strong points! That and this is a beautiful part of the country!

Just like anyplace, we do have ups and downs. Such is the deal!

:cool: CJ
 
Lock

Put a light weight bicycle cable lock on the prop. I doubt there's a minimum standard for a prop lock and anything would be in compliance... :D
 
No juristiction

Am I missing something here. Local government have no authority over national airspace related security. If the FAA nor TSA require prop locks, then local governments have no say. Stuff like that has to be required everywhere or nowhere.
 
Local responsibilities

Mike: As a general rule, the airport "sponsor" / local government has authority over surface issues, principally including noise, environmental, and security, while the FAA is responsible for what is in the air. Security responsibilities for physical assets (planes, buildings, parking lots) at airline-served/Part 139 airport are the sponsor's responsibility. Passenger screening, on the other hand, is principally a federal responsibility.

TSA (different folks that those that handle passenger screening) and FAA both have security manual/procedure requirements, as well as emergency plans dealing with a range of security and non-security items. The sponsor writes them (or hires it to be written) :) and tailors them to meet the available resources, needs and wishes of local management. These manuals are then subject to page by page review and approval by the feds. (Literally, every page is stamped, signed, and dated.)

The methods chosen for the security package involve many things:
- badging requirements (photo only, digital, etc)
- gate security (human monitors, electric gates, manual locks, cameras)
- aircraft security (prop locks, cameras, roving patrols)
- responsibilities of local police vs airport police
- and lots more.
Each airport has different programs for its needs and, once approved by the TSA, become binding on the airport.

MASSPORT has been tangling with prop-lock requirements for a long time, but I don't know the current requirements their various airports. (For many years prior to 9/11/2001, MASSPORT had a reputation of being expensive and non-accommodating to general aviation aircraft. I suspect that it has gotten worse up there for the small GA operator since the creation of TSA.) In any event, the prop lock requirement is a local one to MASSPORT -- one that they have authority to do, and might now be required to impose if they have made it part of the security plan at that airport.
 
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