What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

5 seater RV-10

Damia

I'm New Here
Good morning,

I am a new pilot who has never built anything, though for a long time I have been thinking on building an airplane. I live in the island of Menorca, Spain. I was in Oshkosh last summer and I recently spoke with a couple of RV builders, and have nearly decided to start building an RV7. I like its travelling capability, but I have three children and I wouldn't really like to travel often if I have to leave them behind. So a crazy idea assaulted me: I could build an RV10 and put a bench and three seat belts in the back, so I could take there three children instead of two adults. If I finish the airplane in three years they will be 7, 8 and 10 by then, so I think they should still fit there by weight and size for some 6 or 7 years.

The main problem I would see to that is the tunnel. It would make it unconfortable for the one sitting in the middle, but I think we should be able to live with that.

In my view the rear bench should be higher than normal, so they get a good view out the window and some more leg space.

Do you think this is reasonable? Anyone sees a problem in putting 3 seatbelts instead of two?

I know this sounds quite hipotetical, but my decision on the model to build (and therefore a lot of effort and money) depends on the doability of this idea, so I would really apreciate your comments.

Thank you very much for your help.
 
Damia,
Welcome to VAF! I believe it's been done, but the name of the builder escapes me--hopefully either he or someone else will chime in. What you really need to ask yourself is how often are you going to fly with 5? If it's only once in a while, I'd try to find a Cessna 206, Piper Six, Lance, Saratoga, or a Bonanza A36 to rent for those occasions. Build or buy the airplane that meets the majority of your flying needs. Modifiying a -10 is doable but not a long term solution IMO. Kids grow fast and if they're not happy in back then you won't be happy.
 
In my view the rear bench should be higher than normal, so they get a good view out the window and some more leg space.

Do you think this is reasonable? Anyone sees a problem in putting 3 seatbelts instead of two?

It is a nice idea but I don't think it is reasonable. If they were currently 1, 2, and 4 years old you could probably make it work for four or five years after a three year construction time (that would make them 4, 5, and 7 when you were ready to fly).

At the ages they are now I don't think you could make it work very well even if you were ready to fly tomorrow. The tunnel would be the least of the problem. It is not very wide and someone sitting in the center could easily put one leg on each side.

The problem is the opverall space.
The width is 41 inches at the hips and 45 inches at the elbows.
Try sitting the three of them down on a bench with sides that limit the overall space to 45 inches (and even less at the hips). I don't think they will find it very comfortable right now. Three years from now it would be even worse.

I wish I had better news for you, but I don't think it is a practical choice considering their ages.
 
It will totally depend on the size of your semi finished children. If they are thin and have small behinds by the time you finish the kit you may be able to make it happen. I have the 60/40 seats in the rear from Classic Aero which is darn close to a split bench seat. The rear seating in the RV-10 is pretty spacious. You will have to incorporate an additonal hard point somehow for the center shoulder belts, the two standard ones are attached to the main longeron. W & B could creep in when you start to consider trip length and the amount of baggage 5 people would need. Not sure if insurance will factor in for you but it may if they look at your total time and the fact you want to tote along your entire family of 5 in a 4 place aircraft. I would not build the rear seat up, you really don't need too IMHO if you look at Tim Olson's daughters in the back on his travel stories they have plenty of room to sightsee. Last but not least you will need some alternative form of threating them when they misbehave "Don't make my pull this airplane over and come back there!!" won't work:D
 
Last edited:
5 or 4 seats

You are the manufacturer, and you define the number of seats. I think we have already described ours to the insurance company as a 5 seater. We are going to provision for 3 (children) in the back for my partner's three. Luckily, they are a pretty scrawny family!
 
Local flights

I would also say if most of your flights are going to be short or medium around the islands, go for the RV-10 with 5 seats. If you're taking a week's worth of supplies and flying to Scotland, it might be less comfortable, but flying over to Mallorca for a day trip should be fine.

Or get a Murphy Moose, although its slower and the builder community is sparser.

TDT
 
Check your local "experimental" regulations!

Mind the regulations in Spain! Maybe this can be done in the USA, but I know for sure, that there is no 5 seater experimental allowed in The Netherlands, for example.

Regards, Tonny.
 
The old Piper Comanches put a "child seat" in the baggage area to be a 4+2. I don't know if there is enough baggage area in the RV-10 to consider such a thing, and would be cautious in any event about aft CG.

However, if you absolutely need 5 seats AND insist on a home built airplane there are certainly options. If you REALLY want to be experimental, you can modify the RV-10 plans a bit, perhaps having an aft-facing or side-facing 5th passenger.

The Ravin kit is modeled after the Comanche "C" model (I believe the final version before the flood in the plant, and the one they put the extra seat in) and has an ungodly high gross weight.

The Lionheart was designed from the ground up as a kit plane, but is no longer in production. Man, that was a pretty plane! Maybe one of the original ones is for sale?
 
Let me answer in spanish, sorry to the rest.
No s? si sabr?s que la normativa de construcci?n amateur en nuestro santo pa?s no permite que hagamos aviones con motores mayores de 180 CV, con lo cual, el RV-10 est? fuera de nuestras posibilidades legales. Esto ya te responde al resto de las 5 plazas que, posiblemente, aunque pudieras hacer el avi?n, la Direcci?n General de Seguridad en Vuelo casi te asegurar?a que no te dejar?a. Adem?s el seguro, en caso de incidente, se lavar?a las manos, etc, etc.
Piensa que las ocasiones en las que pudieras volar con todos tus hijos son tan pocas que no merece la pena montar todo este l?o.
Espero haberte ayudado.
Un saludo
 
Thanks to all who have replied.

As well pointed by our friend chiricuca I just found out that the Spanish law forbids homebuilts using engines over 181hp (or 201hp for acrobatics), so that closes the door to the RV-10 for me. Somehow I suspected the problems should come from that way, as usual.

Anyway I remain convinced that 3 children don't have to use more space nor weight than 2 adults, so the matter comes down to finding where to attach the extra seatbelt, which shouldn't be so difficult. Baggage is another thing, but one should learn to travel light.

I know about the "70% of your flying needs" rule for owning, but in the island where I leave the biggest plane you can rent is a C-172, so I don't have the option to rent for my family trips. And after all, is owning an airplane reasonable at all, when we pay AVGAS at 13USD per gallon? Good old Benjamin Franklin knew it is. When he was young he was a vegetarian due to moral reasons. He refused to eat any sensible being. He was once in a boat trip that lasted longer than expected due to lack of wind, so everyone run out of food. He resisted to eat fresh fish, as everybody else was doing, until he saw a small fish in the belly of a big fish they were just cutting, and realized it was the law of nature. If the big fish ate the small one, why shouldn't he do the same? In his memoirs he wrote: "Such a convenient thing it is to be a rational being, that one can find a reason for anything one has a mind to do".
 
becareful.. I got in trouble for mentioning the Ravin on an "RV only" website..
but it is a cool plane, i built one this year, and am assisting in the build of a 2nd, should be done mid summer 2010
Excellent useful load!

I am creating some different seat options, not only for the Ravin but for all homebuilds..
 
Don't forget the Murphy Moose. It can definitely hold 6 people, but you'd probably need the M-14P engine....
John
 
Here is a link to a 5 seat bearhawk:

http://www.bearhawkin.com/Completed-N125BH.html

You could build one of these with 0-360 and it will perform well. I would get the constant speed prop and put the battery on the firewall to make sure that the CG will work, but you will probably be ok since the BH has a very wide cg range.

schu
 
re: 5 seat RV10

There was a fellow at OSH a couple of years ago that did indeed have three seats across the back of his RV10. If memory serves me correctly, he bolted the center seat belt to the same bracket with the outside belts. I also think he said Abby made the seats for him.
BTW, we have a jump seat for our C-150. Although, a 3-4 year old kid is all you can put in it and still fly.:D Oh yeah, and put a little gas in it too.

Marshall Alexander
 
Back
Top