What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Fuel pump noise

J

JohnF

Well Known Member
I powered up the electrical system this morning and things seem all OK, but I was surprised by the noise from the fuel pump..seems a lot louder then the one on my RV6A. I wondered if it might make sense to put some sound deadening material around the pump...not to insulate it so much that heat might become a problem, but I thought some sort of "box" around that general area made of sound deadening material might be a good idea. Your thoughts?
 
I was shocked by mine as well. I found that the fuel line was tapping against the FWD lower skin. I installed a 90 degree fitting which provided more clearance than the plans dictated 90 degree bend. That helped quite a bit. Still a noisy little contraption though.
 
I put a switch on mine so I can shut it off in flight, and on the ground without pulling the fuse.

RV-12_pump_switch.JPG


I took this picture right after I got it done, then realized it was upside down.
 
Last edited:
or like Larry says, "pull the fuse". It is an electrical pump designed to supplement your engine driven pump. I have flown mine start to finish without ever using the electrical one (to see what kind of pressure the engine one is putting out on its own...not a regular program). And no, don't run it without fuel.
 
Peterk said:
or like Larry says, "pull the fuse". It is an electrical pump designed to supplement your engine driven pump. I have flown mine start to finish without ever using the electrical one (to see what kind of pressure the engine one is putting out on its own...not a regular program). And no, don't run it without fuel.
Click to expand...

Be aware that if you pull the fuse for the fuel pump, you also shut off the avionics cooling fans. I thought that my fans had failed and checked all of the wiring and connectors and powered the fans directly from a 9 volt battery to check if the fans had failed. Everything checked out but the fans still did not run. Just by accident, I put the fuse back in for the fuel pump and the fans came on. If installing a switch for the pump, make sure that you don't shut off the fans too.
 
jamescone said:
If installing a switch for the pump, make sure that you don't shut off the fans too.
Click to expand...

Excellent point. The connection to the fans are in the panel so unless you tap into both the fan wire & the fuel pump wire you'll be fine. BTW, the "fat red wire" runs to the fuel pump. It is a little larger than the others.
 
Loud chatter comes from fuel tank area/pump and no psi! Plane has been on trickle charge since October in storage. Has 12 V charge showing. Tank is nearly full. This is a new SLSA with 20 hrs. Very Cold here in Wisconsin but 20 degrees last few days. Help please!!!
Newby here!
Tim
 
Try opening the fuel sump on the bottom of the gasolator with the pump running. May have air in the system from sitting.

Is the fuel line open or closed? Sitting in the pilots seat, it on the step, right side, red knob, should be down all the way.
 
Last edited:
To start your troubleshooting you need to first determine if the problem is in the pump or the pressure sensor. Open the gascollator valve with a container underneath. Then run the pump and see if you have fuel flow. Then go from there.
 
Thanks guys

where do I find the gasolator sump? Do I have to take off the motor cover?
I'll try on Thursday.

I did open the fuel valve, punished down the red knob.

Tim
 
Tim,

The bottom of the gascolator is where you take your normal pre-flight fuel sample. Turn on the Master so the fuel pump is running. Push up on the gascolator valve to sample fuel in the usual way. If the gas just trickles out, the pump is not producing pressure. If the gas comes out with force, the pump is working.

When you buy a SLSA do you get a warrantee? Do you get a customer support number to call with questions? Most of us builders are not familiar with the SLSA support options. Please enlighten us.

John
 
John, Thankyou for all the advice. Vans has been very responsive though this is the first real problem. My wife and i went to Aurora last April just to look and dream of owning an RV12....and was very happy to meet staff, cynthis, gus and Jerry's brother who generously gave a test flight. I got lucky last August and bought a used RV12, 235VA from a kindly gentleman who changed his mind after just 6 hours. So here I am, a student, don't know much.
I had/have a good RV-12 instructor here in WI who will still try to help but he has taken a full time job out of State. No one else around!!! Nearest Rotax mechanic is about an hour away.
All advice welcome. I will look forward to meeting you at EAA. The way things are going I probably won't be flying by then. I don't know if there is a warranty. I posted a pic on the "white pages" but don't see anything yet.

Tim
 
Tim,

If you get the chance take the 2 day ROTAX service course offered through California Power Systems or Lockwood Aviation.

It covers everything you will need to care for the ROTAX.

Rich
 
Tim, at your level of experience you need someone more experienced to help you. Not just for this problem, but for the entire time period between now and when you get totally familiar with your airplane. I just looked up Mequon on the map. You are close to Milwaukee, and only an hour and a half south of Mecca (read that Oshkosh!) I suggest you get in touch with the folks at EAA, up in Oshkosh, and see if there is a local EAA chapter in your area. Then make contact there, go to a meeting, and try to hook up with someone who can mentor you. The guys here on the VAF site will try to help you as best we can, but you really need local support.

It would also help to know how Van's handles support, if any, of a second owner of a factory built SLSA. Most of us on the forum are builders, not buyers, and our knowledge (at least MY knowledge) of the SLSA program is very limited. Perhaps Scott M. can chime in with more info on this topic.

John
 
Tim and everyone else.
I'll just briefly chime in here also.
I'm very interested in any experience with your SLSA and Vans. I'm expecting mine (N253VA) to be finished with in a month and I'll be flying her home to Phoenix.
I chose Norwegian Teal as the color, a little different than the Tahoe Blue but not as striking as the orange and greens which are nice but a little too unique for me. I'll post some pic's when I get her home.
In the mean while I've been learning lots from this site and can see myself building in the future!
Cheers
Lee
 
RV12 Service in Wisconsin

Tim,

Last summer I had an oil pressure sensor failure in my RV12 while flying to Reedsburg, Wi.

I got excellent help with this from Eric Paradis who operates Aero Paradise there on the field. His work in getting the parts, making the repair and helping me get the info together for the warranty claim to Rotax was the best I have experienced in this sort of thing. Communicated often, kept me in the loop and did things promptly.

In visiting with him I was surprised to learn that he had just been appointed as a service center for the SLSA RV12. If you have not been in contact with him I encourage you to do so. He will be a great source of support.

His info is in this link to the RV12 service centers:
https://www.vansaircraft.com/public/12-SLSA-centers.htm
 
Sheesh.....thank you John, Rich, Keith and Lee. This is amazingly helpful. I am grateful for all your good advice.
There is a local builders chapter and I will go. Tnks
I drove up to EAA last week EAA has a list of CFIs but none for RV12
Would be good to take a Rotax course even though I guess we can't work on them.
Congrats on the new plane Lee....

I have been considering going to Vans for a week or so of CFI. But with airline, hotel etc $$$$
Mike Seager said he might be able to help but doesn't do basic vs. transition. Jose does....

Heard about Reedsberg and also East Troy.....all good mechanics.

I have a good friend CFI who may get transitioned...which would help.

Can't wait!!! Im 68 and tempus fugit!!

Are we having another RV12 meet at EAA this summer? We will
Have a grill fired up with Wisconsin brats and beer if y'all come!

Tim
 
Tim, you can work on your SLSA up to a point. You just can't do modifications or the annual. Oil changes, tires, carb balancing are all things you can do.
 
RFSchaller said:
Tim, you can work on your SLSA up to a point. You just can't do modifications or the annual. Oil changes, tires, carb balancing are all things you can do.
Click to expand...

Not entirely true.

Oil changes and carb balancing if the owner has taken the Rotax Service Specialty course (and then only on an aircraft they own).

Airframe maint. if the maint manual says that no special certification is required.

Pertinent FAR located HERE
 
Rotax service specialty course

Thankyou....I'll check EAA to see when the course is available ??? Haven't found anything yet.

Tim
 
Scott, my understanding is that LEGALY the owner of an SLSA can do anything in the way of maintenance except modifications and condition inspections. From a warranty standpoint the actions may be limited. Am I missing something?

Rich
 
My reading of FAR 43.3 (g) tells me that one would have to be a certificated pilot at the Sport Pilot level or above to legally do maintenance on a SLSA owned by that pilot. Repairman certificates only required if one wants to perform their own condition inspections. Warranty rules could be more stringent I suppose.
 
RFSchaller said:
Scott, my understanding is that LEGALY the owner of an SLSA can do anything in the way of maintenance except modifications and condition inspections. From a warranty standpoint the actions may be limited. Am I missing something?

Rich
Click to expand...

One of the operating limitations issued with the S-LSA airworthiness certificate (yes, it gets a SPECIAL airworthiness cert, so it gets operating limitations just like experimentals) states...

(16) No person may operate this aircraft in the light-sport category unless it is
continuously maintained in compliance with 14 CFR § 91.327(b).

Copied from FAR 91.327...

(b) No person may operate an aircraft that has a special airworthiness certificate in the light-sport category unless—

(1) The aircraft is maintained by a certificated repairman with a light-sport aircraft maintenance rating, an appropriately rated mechanic, or an appropriately rated repair station in accordance with the applicable provisions of part 43 of this chapter and maintenance and inspection procedures developed by the aircraft manufacturer or a person acceptable to the FAA;

Also, The FAA designated that the manufacturer specify what level of certification is required for maint. or repair processes. That is why the RV-12 Maint. Manual has a level of certification required, listed for each process. The requirement for writing and supplying the M.M. was for S-LSA certification, and it applies to the S-LSA aircraft. These do not apply to E-LSA RV-12 owners.

It is generally accepted that the normal maint tasks allowed under FAR 43, appendix A, to be done by owners on certificated aircraft (oil change, tires, etc.) without any special certification, are also allowed for S-LSA as long as the specific certification requirement or training specified in the manufacturers M.M. are met.
In the case of doing oil changes, carb synchs, etc., on the Rotax, that would mean getting the Service Specialty training to comply with Rotax's specified requirements.
Any S-LSA owner could take the 120 hr training course to receive a LSRM (Light Sport Repairman Maintenance) certificate and they would then be qualified to do all maint. and the condition inspections on there S-LSA RV-12. Some people choose to re-certify their S-LSA aircraft as an E-LSA (there is a process for doing this) so that they gain the freedom to modify, they need no level of certification to do repairs or maint., and they can just take the 16 hr course and get the LSR Inspector rating that any other E-LSA RV-12 builder gets, and be able to do the yearly condition inspection. The down side is the aircraft can no longer be rented to others (requires 100 hr inspections if being used that way while an S-LSA).
 
Last edited:
It sure seems that FAR 43.3 (g) and 91.327 are somewhat contradictory. I'm sure Scott has the best handle on this in terms of actual practice.

As far as Tim is concerned, with his new SLSA, until he gets at least a Sport Pilot certificate, I think he will need to find a properly certificated mechanic or repairman to do his maintenance. Would you agree with that Scott?
 
BigJohn said:
My reading of FAR 43.3 (g) tells me that one would have to be a certificated pilot at the Sport Pilot level or above to legally do maintenance on a SLSA owned by that pilot. Repairman certificates only required if one wants to perform their own condition inspections. Warranty rules could be more stringent I suppose.
Click to expand...

Actually 43.3 (G) specifically states preventive maintenance.
Work considered preventative is described in FAR 43 appendix A
It is far from including any and all maintenance.
 
BigJohn said:
It sure seems that FAR 43.3 (g) and 91.327 are somewhat contradictory. I'm sure Scott has the best handle on this in terms of actual practice.
Click to expand...

Actually they are not, because 43.3 only allows specific tasks listed as preventative maint in appendix A (see my other post).

BigJohn said:
As far as Tim is concerned, with his new SLSA, until he gets at least a Sport Pilot certificate, I think he will need to find a properly certificated mechanic or repairman to do his maintenance. Would you agree with that Scott?
Click to expand...

I agree John. It requires at least a Sport Pilot certificate.
Where things do get a bit sticky is special certification. The FAA and the ASTM that regulates the writing of the Maint. Manual says that the manufacturer has the responsibility to specify if and what special certification is required for specific maint. tasks, but the FAA hasn't written anything into the FAR's (that I am aware of anyway) that would be binding for an owner to get specific training to work on the Rotax (even though Rotax states in their documentation that it is required). Since as an A&P, I was bound by the requirement to get type specific training for the Rotax, it stands to reason that an aircraft owner would have to also, but I am unaware of anywhere in the FAR's that clearly spells it out (I would appreciate if someone could point me to something that does).
 
Regardless of what the regs allow it's important we all recognize our limits. I agree a new owner earning his/her wings should seek experienced help on any maintenance issue.

One option for an SLSA owner would be to get an ELSA A/W certificate and LSR-I license, but it's a trade off of SLSA privledges for the economics of ELSA.

I guess I need to go back and look at the regs because I thought an SLSA owner could do all the preventive and corrective maintenance.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top