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SkyView update from Van's Facebook page

V

vandi

Active Member
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Vans-Aircraft-Inc/121827541221519

Van's Aircraft Inc.

We thought we'd share some additional RV-12 Skyview information that was presented in a forum at the Arlington Fly In. The accompanying PDF (6.3 MB) download is a copy of the PowerPoint presentation that was presented by Rian Johnson. This should give you some insight to what the expected product installation should look like and some of the thought process that went into the upgrade. Enjoy!

http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/FaceBook/RV-12ElectricalSystem-Skyview.pdf

Looks like some great information and wonderful upgrade... no price listed... hrm........
 
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The wing root electrical connecter certainly looks better than the first attempt.
Also handles 8 contacts instead of four.
 
SWEEEEEET

Looks like Van's has made some great improvements - not only the Skyviews ("flying avionics platform" - yea) but in common sense changes like the flashing/not flashing lights, improved wing connectors, etc.

Hey Van's - how about a three bladed propeller and maybe a 25 gallon fuel tank option? In my opinion, the RV-12 is rapidly approaching perfection as Van's offers improvement options.:cool:
 
Skyview update

First glance it looks great but I thought we had limited power available with 2 10" screens and only 20 amps. Now the addition of a 5 amp aux power supply probably means there is a Alternator upgrade in the works. It's only money!! right?

Hutch
120510
waiting on finish kit (and cooler weather)
 
Stereo EFIS Input (allows traffic warnings in 3D)

What does this mean? The only thing my creative imagination could come up with: Using the Mode S transponder's Traffic information, could the EFIS generate holophonic stereo into my headset, such that I get a "Hey buddy, look up here to your right at that airliner getting in your way". (for those who haven't experienced holophonic recording, it gives a remarkable effect, as do your ears, of 3D-directionality of a sound source).
 
Alternator option

Hutch said:
Now the addition of a 5 amp aux power supply probably means there is a Alternator upgrade in the works. Hutch
120510
waiting on finish kit (and cooler weather)
Click to expand...

I believe Rotax does have a bolt-on alternator available for the 912, but I've always wondered why they didn't just use an alternator instead of a generator in the first place. The Skyview setup looks very well thought out, and the wing connectors are a definite improvement.
 
Alternator vs generator

I believe that an alternator requires battery power to work, while a generator does not. So by using a integral generator the Rotax ignition system is more 'magneto like', in that it does not require a battery.
 
Gen/Alt

DaveLS said:
I believe that an alternator requires battery power to work, while a generator does not. So by using a integral generator the Rotax ignition system is more 'magneto like', in that it does not require a battery.
Click to expand...

The alternator only needs the battery to supply an initial current to the field windings. Once the alternator is running, the battery is no longer needed. Because alternators are simpler, less expensive and more reliable, generators aren't used very much these days. However, Rotax has persisted with the older technology for some unknown reason.

But if Vans are planning to replace the generator with an alternator to support the second Skyview, that would be a good move IMO.
 
The Rotax does not have a generator.

The Rotax has an alternator, not a generator. A generator uses a commutator and brushes to change the generated AC into DC. An alternator uses diodes to change the AC into DC. The Rotax voltage regulator contains the diodes to accomplish this. The Rotax alternator does not have a field winding like automotive alternators. Instead, the Rotax alternator field is comprised of permanent magnets. This type of alternator is also called a dynamo. The advantage of a dynamo is that no slip rings or brushes are required. That means there are fewer parts to fail or maintain. The only moving parts are the magnets which are integrated into the flywheel. The Rotax alternator is modern and reliable with no bearings or brushes to wear out. The weak link is the voltage regulator which can fail if overheated.
Joe Gores
 
Alt/Gen

Thanks Joe. The Rotax spec sheet for the 912 ULS that I've seen describes it as a 250W DC Generator. Maybe it's the German translation that was confusing me.

Edit: Just to add to the confusion, the same data sheet lists one of the options as `external alternator 40A/12V DC"

Mich48041 said:
The Rotax has an alternator, not a generator. A generator uses a commutator and brushes to change the generated AC into DC. An alternator uses diodes to change the AC into DC. The Rotax voltage regulator contains the diodes to accomplish this. The Rotax alternator does not have a field winding like automotive alternators. Instead, the Rotax alternator field is comprised of permanent magnets. This type of alternator is also called a dynamo. The advantage of a dynamo is that no slip rings or brushes are required. That means there are fewer parts to fail or maintain. The only moving parts are the magnets which are integrated into the flywheel. The Rotax alternator is modern and reliable with no bearings or brushes to wear out. The weak link is the voltage regulator which can fail if overheated.
Joe Gores
Click to expand...
 
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Stereo EFIS

engineerofsorts said:
What does this mean? The only thing my creative imagination could come up with: Using the Mode S transponder's Traffic information, could the EFIS generate holophonic stereo into my headset, such that I get a "Hey buddy, look up here to your right at that airliner getting in your way". (for those who haven't experienced holophonic recording, it gives a remarkable effect, as do your ears, of 3D-directionality of a sound source).
Click to expand...

With Stereo, the EFIS could easily pan a warning announcement left and right. This would be a big help in situational awareness. Now there are some technologies that attempt to give surround sound effects with stereo headphones. Those are typically dependent on the headphones, so I think we will just see a basic stereo alert.

--Bill
 
Skyview

Its great to see how Vans have upgraded the 12 with the latest Dynon Skyview and complete Electronics harness assemblies...........WELL DONE..!
 
I noticed that Van's says that resettable breakers (W23 or W31) are not FAA compliant. I made an entire airplane with those breakers, using more than 15, and it is about to be IFR approved. Nobody told me that they weren't right. Do you know why they are not good?
 
The big question?

How much will the skyview cost? We have just finished the finish kit and getting ready to order d-180, will it be a budget buster? Don from Ohio.
 
A guess

I figure you're "trading in" a Garmin 496 and a Garmin transponder, and adding:

SV-D1000
SkyView 10” Display (includes main wiring harness & SynVis)
$3,600

SV-ADAHRS-200
ADAHRS - First (at least one ADAHRS required)
$1,200

SV-EMS-220
Engine Monitoring Module
$600

SV-ARINC-429
ARINC-429 Interface Module
$475

SV-MAP-270
SkyView GPS Navigation Mapping Software
$500

SV-XPNDR-261
Mode-S Class 1 Transponder (high performance aircraft & US)
$2,200

SV-GPS-250
GPS 5Hz Receiver Module (at least one recommended)
$200

That's $8,775. Add in some wiring harnesses and new panel aluminum, guessing about $250 for that. Subtract roughly $3,400 for the Garmin units you won't need anymore. That gives you $5,625. The D-180 was around $3,200.

My guess is you're looking at roughly an extra $2,500, but you won't need to buy the AP-74 ($450) if you decide to install the autopilot. So, I'm guessing about $2,000 more than you would have spent for an all-up solution. My personal opinion is that the Skyview provides enough additional value and future expandability to make that a good deal.

My fearless and consequence-free guess: Skyview avionics kit comes in at right around $15,000.
 
Circuit breakers

I noticed that Van's says that resettable breakers (W23 or W31) are not FAA compliant. I made an entire airplane with those breakers, using more than 15, and it is about to be IFR approved. Nobody told me that they weren't right. Do you know why they are not good?
Click to expand...
Notice that it says, "Automatic".
Automatic re-set circuit breakers may not be used.
Click to expand...
There should not be a problem using manual reset breakers, although fuses are smaller, lighter, cheaper and give better circuit protection.
Joe Gores
 
Very interesting, and even more tightly integrated.

Questions -

Do the strobe/nav lights have an off position?

Does the landing light have an off position?

And will there be a wiring diagram for the Van's-designed avionics for future trouble-shooting?

Dave
 
Skyview

Questions -

Do the strobe/nav lights have an off position?

Does the landing light have an off position?
Click to expand...
Yes
Yes
Don't know about wiring diagram, really doubt it.
 
Mich48041 said:
Notice that it says, "Automatic".

There should not be a problem using manual reset breakers, although fuses are smaller, lighter, cheaper and give better circuit protection.
Joe Gores
Click to expand...

Joe, you're right.
But Van's display a W23 photo besides that sentence... That placed me on the wrong way...
Ciao.
Camillo
 
Which way to go?

I recently received by finish kit and am holding off on the avionics because of the skyview. As I start into the finish I have built the wing electrical 8 spade connector and now I see a new version. I put in the cooling fans and now I wonder will I need those. I'm looking at running the other wire groups and wonder if those will change or integrate into the new system?

Has anyone already gotten any insite on this? Thanks for any suggestion or who to talk to at Vans? :cool:
 
Spare wires

Cooling fans will help to keep expensive avionics from failing prematurely. Let's hope they are not in the way for future avionics installations. The SkyView should use the same airframe wiring. Pulling in a couple of spare wires now will save lots of work later if more wires are ever needed.
Joe Gores
 
I noticed the Skyview is only about an inch thick from front to back. Built into the backside are two small muffin fans to cool it, no interference with our two muffin fans from Vans.
 
There will be one or two additional twisted pairs of wires running from the panel back to the tail cone. This is because the electronic gyro unit is in the tail on the Skyview. These can probably be fished back - I sure hope so because everything is locked down from installing the control rods!

It also needs both pitot and static tubes run to it in the tail - but that can be accomplished by connecting to the static line that currently comes from the tail to the panel and repurposing it as the pitot line. The static line is already back there. I expect the skyview mod kit will have some adapters for these purposes.

Each wing will need one extra wire to the tip light if you intend to switch the nav and strobe separately as the new panel allows. They use a common ground wire you will already have. If you run yet another wire from tip light to tip light, it will keep the strobes synched. (Or, you can just flick the switch from time to time.)

The landing light has on, off, and pulse functions even in the current kit version. Two power wires and a ground go to it.

I am not sure from the power components layout if those existing panel fans will stay or go. Hope they stay. The skyview will not need that DB-9 serial connector, it uses USB memory sticks. But they plug in the back of the Skyview! So Dynon gives you a little extender cable (male-female) that will probably go out the bottom of the panel for access. The Dynon info here comes from discussion with Dynon, not from Van's.
 
I spoke to Mitch at the show and he said that New Blue will have the Skyview installed as soon as he returned home from OSH. I only wish they had gotten it in or brought the other factory plane with it in to OSH. Still no date for shipping or pricing unless someone else heard anything at the show?

Carl
 
I spoke with Gus at the show. He confirmed Mitch is going to be the guinea pig, and install the Skyview in "blue" after the show. I asked what the cost would be. He said that due to the Skyview having a lot of the components already built in.... the cost will be about the same.:)
 
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