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Build log with SDS EFI or EFII System 32

TASEsq

Well Known Member
Patron
Hi!

Is anyone aware of a good build log where the builder has put a -390 or EXP-119 390 into a rv-14 and used either SDS EFI or EFII System 32?

I’ve watched all of Andrew Kilroy’s excellent videos but was hoping for more detail.

I have been recently told that Aerosport is unable to build me a 390, so I’m looking at ordering an engine through vans to lycoming without fuel and ignition, and I want to try to get my head around how these systems work and whether it would be within my abilities to install such a system safely myself.

I.e. I don’t know I would have the confidence to remove a flywheel and drill holes in it or weld an injector boss onto the intake tube of my $80k engine! 😳

I was hoping that I could simply purchase an engine and specify this system from aerosport, but they can’t do it apparently. I haven’t tried Lycon or Barrett as yet.

The Van’s price for the exp is already $54k (likely $85k landed here in aus) - am I adding significantly to the cost of my engine thinking about this? I just can’t bear the thought of having a nice glass panel ifr machine with such old tech as mags (and an inability to future proof for auto fuels etc).
 
Hi!

Is anyone aware of a good build log where the builder has put a -390 or EXP-119 390 into a rv-14 and used either SDS EFI or EFII System 32?

I’ve watched all of Andrew Kilroy’s excellent videos but was hoping for more detail.

I have been recently told that Aerosport is unable to build me a 390, so I’m looking at ordering an engine through vans to lycoming without fuel and ignition, and I want to try to get my head around how these systems work and whether it would be within my abilities to install such a system safely myself.

I.e. I don’t know I would have the confidence to remove a flywheel and drill holes in it or weld an injector boss onto the intake tube of my $80k engine! 😳

I was hoping that I could simply purchase an engine and specify this system from aerosport, but they can’t do it apparently. I haven’t tried Lycon or Barrett as yet.

The Van’s price for the exp is already $54k (likely $85k landed here in aus) - am I adding significantly to the cost of my engine thinking about this? I just can’t bear the thought of having a nice glass panel ifr machine with such old tech as mags (and an inability to future proof for auto fuels etc).

Pretty sure both systems now use injectors fitted to the cylinders instead of welding bungs in the intake tubes.

I am not sure about SDS BUT EFII can install the magnets in the ring gear support for you.
 
I've done one complete SDS system install on my RV-10 (IO-540) and assisted some on another on an RV-14 (IO-390).

1. Given that this installation occurs pretty late in the build process, you have (hopefully) acquired the skills you need to install either SDS or FlyEFII.

2. As Robert said, I don't think you need to do any welding. Certainly not with SDS.

3. The flywheel drilling for SDS is not that complicated. They provide a nice drilling jig that sets the hole locations. Follow the instructions, drill carefully and you will be fine. I still recommend using a timing light to verify the timing settings. Even though we used the jig, we were still off a couple of degress versus the default settings.

4. For me, the wiring was the most complicated. I was concerned both about wiring protection and appearance - so it took a little extra thought to accomplish both. We still have to do some cleanup and are working on hall effect wiring protection. SDS provides some nice mounting holes on the hall effect mount to help with that.

5. I will reach out to the RV-14 builder and see what information he can provide to you. You also have a couple of very experienced builders familiar with SDS down under. I expect they will be glad to provide you with additional insight.

6. Highly recommend Aircraft Specialty/TS Flightlines for the custom made fuel lines (and for all of the other lines too). Tom at TS went above and beyond (as always) to ensure I had high quality hoses.

7. Way off topic - but it's not too late to install Sky Designs ER tanks!

(Early picture before baffle seal re-do)
 
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Lets also not forget that SDS offers a trick lightweight ring gear carier that has the magnets installed as an option. Conversion to SDS EFI can be a completely bolt on affair.
 
Easy Peezy

I’ll just basically echo what others have said by saying that you’ll never regret going with SDS or EFII. I’m also building my -14 with one of these setups. I also have the same system on my -8 and couldn’t be happier. Both SDS and EFII are 100 auto fuel compatible….even if it has ethanol in it. Vapor lock will be a thing of the past because both systems provide fresh cold fuel to the engine via a continuous flow high pressure fuel rail. These systems really modernize these old technology air cooled engines.

I’d also highly recommend Tom’s (TS Flightlines) entire plumbing kit…..he really makes this a plug and play installation.

Both SDS and EFII are basically plug and play as well. Yes, there’s additional work to do regarding the plumbing, but once that’s done, the systems themselves are very easy to install. Also, you absolutely won’t have to worry about any welding or doing anything that requires special skills.

I’m sure you’ll be able to find guidance from others down under, but if you’d like to reach out to me, I’d be happy to answer any questions you may have regarding this installation.
 
Les Kearney has a nice site which covers SDS installation in detail and his experiences. Will be adding more photos on his current (4th) build as that progresses: https://rv10.ca/

We keep improving our hardware and electronics based on customer feedback, including more bits with the kits so you don't need to track them down. Always trying to make installation easier.

We're starting to work on the new EM-6 manuals now, will have more schematics and tables. Hopefully this will clarify certain aspects to builders.

Soon we'll begin to make a series of YT videos covering the new features on the EM-6.
 
As Michael mentioned, we offer billet flywheels with magnets installed if you don't want to drill your stock flywheel with our drilling jig.
 

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Les Kearney has a nice site which covers SDS installation in detail and his experiences. Will be adding more photos on his current (4th) build as that progresses: https://rv10.ca/

Thanks! I’ll check out his site.

For either system: regarding the flywheel magnets - do I just ask Lycoming to remove the flywheel and ship it to the vendor to install the magnets? And I get the flywheel with the magnets installed with my EFII kit?
 
I have installed 2 SDS systems, and helped with a third.

Ross provides a billet machined tool to locate the holes for the magnets. He also provides the drill bit, and a tap for the set screws -----included of course----to locate the magnets correctly as to depth.

If you can follow simple directions you can install the magnets.
 
Agree that modification of the stock carrier is pretty easy with the SDS kit. THAT SAID, a brand new Lycoming ring carrier has some substantial value on the used market. Is it enough to completely pay for the trick SDS piece? - hard to say. But considering the realtively cheap price Ross asks for his product, it should fetch a fair portion of the cost to just buy outright.
 
For either system: regarding the flywheel magnets - do I just ask Lycoming to remove the flywheel and ship it to the vendor to install the magnets? And I get the flywheel with the magnets installed with my EFII kit?

I’m sure your contact person at Lycoming would be willing to accommodate you.

Is anyone aware of a build log for the EFII system 32?

What exactly would you like to know? If you’d like to contact me directly, send a PM to me with your email and/or your Facebook Messenger link and I’d be glad to chat with you help you out as much as I can.
 
Magnets

Thanks! I’ll check out his site.

For either system: regarding the flywheel magnets - do I just ask Lycoming to remove the flywheel and ship it to the vendor to install the magnets? And I get the flywheel with the magnets installed with my EFII kit?

Yes, Lycoming will ship the flywheel to EFII and EFII will ship the flywheel back to be reinstalled and painted. I'm sure Ross would also send his flywheels to Lycoming, and you can delete theirs. Both SDS and EFII very good systems.
 
We wanted to remove the step of shipping your flywheel somewhere to have the magnets mounted so we provide the CNC'd drilling jig, drill bit, tap and Allen set screws with the kit as others have mentioned. If you built your RV, you'll be able to drill and mount your magnets easily in about 15-20 minutes.

You do need a flywheel with the 12, 1/4" tooling holes around the periphery to place the jig. Some late model Lycoming flywheels lack these holes so can't be used. I should also mention, you need a flywheel which measures 9.75" OD at the belt sheave area. The smaller style ones, which are about 8.5" OD, can't be used because they won't clear the crank sensor bracket.

The last resort is one of our billet ones which will also lose you about one pound in weight.

I should mention that Thunderbolt will run in your engine with conventional fuel and ignition systems but will delete components not required with EFI and credit you for them- things like mags, servo, harness etc. The cost of these deleted items starts to come close to the cost of the EFI so the financial pain isn't so bad.

Ly-Con, Barrett and Aero Sport all have experience with our systems and special harnesses we provided to run your engine in with EFI on their dynos or test stands.
 
Thank you all- it’s starting to make sense now.

Aerosport is unable to build me an io-390 as they can’t buy the engine in kit form apparently. I haven’t tried Lycon or Barrett as yet.

Is the general consensus that it would be cheaper to go with lycoming through vans? Or are places like Lycon competitive?

I had wanted to go with aerosport as I see great value in doing the build school - I am building to enhance my skills after all. If someone else builds me an engine and sends it to me my knowledge will increase much less than if I assembled it myself.

But it seems that if I had lycoming send my flywheel to SDS or EFII to install the magnets, I should be able to do the rest myself?

Is the skill needed to do the programming and setup equivalent between the 2 systems? I would hate to install something wrongly and detonate the thing. In that way, Lycon / Barrett would ofter an advantage for a new builder I guess as they would run the engine in its final config.
 
Here is a link to a video on installing the magnets to those who may be interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1WQOfWPMp8

We have pretty good maps for the 390 now forwarded by several of our customers so these values would be burned in to new ECUs. You should have minimal programming to do.

Van's probably has the best deal on 390s. You can order the Thunderbolt option which allows you to delete the parts not required when fitting EFI.
 
Thanks Ross,

The magnet install looks fairly straight forward - apart from the recurring nightmares in the weeks leading up to the operation about breaking off the tap in the hole!
 
Only had one fellow break a tap out of hundreds. Take your time, half a turn in and back up half a turn once you get in 6 threads or so. Tapping fluid a must. A-9 works for me. I've done over 80 myself without issue.
 
Oil return lines

The elephant in the room when it comes to these 2 systems (SDS and EFII) is most likely installing the injectors in the lower prime ports. Installing the injectors is not difficult the issue is obtaining enough clearance with the oil return fittings. These need to be tapped further and clocked correctly. Tapping a brand new 50k engine the process is not difficult, but it is intimidating. Just take it slowly, very slowly. Third party engine builders will install these and test the engine which is a great help. Lycoming will not. As I understand it the SDS injectors are a little smaller and the oil return lines are ok without additional tapping. At one time EFII and possibly SDS installed their injectors in the intake tubes but not any longer. This seemed to work ok but an issue with fuel rail installation, (And possibly other issues) so this was changed some years ago. Again, both these systems are very good and to date very reliable and easy to operate.
 
The elephant in the room when it comes to these 2 systems (SDS and EFII) is most likely installing the injectors in the lower prime ports. Installing the injectors is not difficult the issue is obtaining enough clearance with the oil return fittings. These need to be tapped further and clocked correctly. Tapping a brand new 50k engine the process is not difficult, but it is intimidating. Just take it slowly, very slowly. Third party engine builders will install these and test the engine which is a great help. Lycoming will not. As I understand it the SDS injectors are a little smaller and the oil return lines are ok without additional tapping. At one time EFII and possibly SDS installed their injectors in the intake tubes but not any longer. This seemed to work ok but an issue with fuel rail installation, (And possibly other issues) so this was changed some years ago. Again, both these systems are very good and to date very reliable and easy to operate.

We've never installed injectors in the primer ports. Been mounting them in the factory injector ports on top for about 5 years now. No mods required on SDS and they don't bake in the heat coming off the exhaust pipes and hot cooling air down there.
 

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The elephant in the room when it comes to these 2 systems (SDS and EFII) …

This is the issue with both vendors in my opinion. Both have fairly basic information for people who don’t know much about it all. At first flush it seems an overly complicated and risky undertaking. Certainly not plug and play. And a bit overwhelming really. I’m picking up tidbits of info from comments by others on the forums - which may or may not be accurate.

Hence the question - I was hoping to be able to follow an install the see exactly what is needed to accomplish the install safely, then decide if I would be able to do it. If not, then I would have to have the engine built with the system installed.
 
I used Lycon to install the fuel rails and put the electronic triggers in the flywheel---that is the easy part. All the electronic and plumbing to the system is the harder part. Fortunately there are many people that have preceded both of us on the install of EFII on an I/O 390
 
My take is that installation may be the easy part. Setup, calibration and mapping looked to be the tweaky bits. As much as I would have liked a more modern ignition and fuel delivery system, I went with dual P-mags only in the end on a non-TB system. Honestly, I don’t want the additional hassles of tweaking ignition timings, etc while flying. Maybe in the future I’ll reconsider when access to alternative fuels becomes more an issue.

Troy
 
Don't tweak in the air, please.

My take is that installation may be the easy part. Setup, calibration and mapping looked to be the tweaky bits. As much as I would have liked a more modern ignition and fuel delivery system, I went with dual P-mags only in the end on a non-TB system. Honestly, I don’t want the additional hassles of tweaking ignition timings, etc while flying. Maybe in the future I’ll reconsider when access to alternative fuels becomes more an issue.

Troy

Although it's possible to do some tweaking in the air I would not recommend this at least for the first 100 hours. In less than 30 mins on the ground after initial start you can complete the initial set-up, and mapping. There is really no calibration. My main issue for me was a persistent oil seepage under the valve cover gaskets caused by a self-inflicted error when the gaskets were lubricated before installing. (SDS billet valve covers would have solved this issue)
 
Not sure where all this drama is coming from. My SDS system worked right out of the box. I did plug in my preferred ignition map, but the one Ross had loaded was just fine. I have yet to touch the fuel map.
 
Well that’s good to hear that the SDS system isn’t as tweaky as I expected. I may have to re-think this. It looks to be a very nice solution.
 
Have you considered buying the engine for Lycon in Ca and having them put the EFII fuel rails in and the flywheel. They will test run the engine and tune the fuel mapping. I bought my engine from Vans had it sent to Lycon and had them do the above--plus port and polish and add high compression pistons. I have been very satisfied. When theywere done, my engine dyno'd out at 251 HP
 
Have you considered buying the engine for Lycon in Ca and having them put the EFII fuel rails in and the flywheel. They will test run the engine and tune the fuel mapping. I bought my engine from Vans had it sent to Lycon and had them do the above--plus port and polish and add high compression pistons. I have been very satisfied. When theywere done, my engine dyno'd out at 251 HP

What was the ballpark price for Lycon to do the EFII install. I asked them for a IO-390 quote a few months ago... never heard a response after I asked multiple times... I ended up just ordering from Vans.

But if they will actually do the install then I might not mind having them do it once I get the engine.
 
I had them port and polish, add high compression pistons, then install the fuel rails/injectors/install the modified flywheel and do the fuel mapping and run the engine for acouple of hours. They dyno'd the engine it came in at 251 HP---the bill was approx 12K
 
I had them port and polish, add high compression pistons, then install the fuel rails/injectors/install the modified flywheel and do the fuel mapping and run the engine for acouple of hours. They dyno'd the engine it came in at 251 HP---the bill was approx 12K

Was the 12k including the EFII hardware? Or just the labor / other parts?
 
The 12K was for the labor performed by Lycon. The EFII system is about $6,500 The entire process is expensive, but it really is the future in aviation engines. You will have the possibilty of using auto fuel as well by using the EFII system.
 
Very interesting comments….Lycon web site seems to be down. I tried clicking on links and none of them seem to be working. Kind of scary….hope they are still in business.
 
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