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Extended Range Fuel Tanks for RV-10 & RV-14

I ordered one CiES sender for each Sky Designs tank. The quantity indicators will obviously read full until some fuel is burned but I'm okay with that. We have reliable totalizers these days.

Yes, the CiES senders are spendy but I'm on the wait-list for paint at Evoke and I'd like to minimize the likelihood of having to remove the tanks and messing with the paint.

CiES senders are obviously no guarantee the tanks won't have to be removed, but it'll help me sleep better knowing there's one fewer component likely to fail.
 
I’ll just add my name to the list of ER tanks and dual Cies senders in each tank. I also agree that the senders are more expensive than other options but my wife has them in her 182 and they work well. At the end of the day, I want this plane the way I want it. I’m building it for me.
 
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I am trying to decide if I want to go standard tanks or these extended range tanks. I'm still working on the emp on my 10, but I already have the slow build wing sitting in my garage waiting for me to finish.

I can see the advantages of ER tanks, but what are the disadvantages, gotchas, or general downsides to building these into a new set of wings?
 
I am trying to decide if I want to go standard tanks or these extended range tanks. I'm still working on the emp on my 10, but I already have the slow build wing sitting in my garage waiting for me to finish.

I can see the advantages of ER tanks, but what are the disadvantages, gotchas, or general downsides to building these into a new set of wings?

You should reach out to Ken Krueger for a copy of his very thorough engineering report he wrote on these tanks. [email protected]

I have not installed these in new slow build wings, but I have built one set of tanks for my flying RV-10 and assisted a friend in modifying his completed (flying) RV-10 to install these tanks.

As the old adage goes, the only time you can have too much fuel is when you are on fire. So the additional fuel quantity is definitely a plus.

The only disadvantage I can see is the issue of spin recovery if you were to get into an inadvertent spin. Ken has analyzed this, but as far as I know, no one has done a thorough spin test program with these tanks. Frankly, I don't think it has ever been done with Hotel Whiskey tanks (located in the wing tips) or any of the others that have built ER tanks.

The tanks are big. The build process is the same as the standard range tanks, but just takes longer. I know that Ken's business partner (Kent Misegades) is considering offering a quick build option for these tanks - if the demand is there. For folks that don't want to build them, it might be available - but obviously shipping of a built set of tanks vs. just the skins and baffles will be more involved and expensive.

Ken's analysis also justifies an increase in gross weight for the RV-10 (and probably the 14 too). I know that many builders do this anyway - even without the ER tanks - but it's nice to have an engineering justification for this.

So this person's opinion is Ken's ER tanks are a no brainer on a 10 or 14, especially with slow build wings.
 
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Please feel free to reach-out to me directly if you have any questions about ER Tanks (or any of our other products for that matter :cool: )

Regarding the weight increase with Sky Designs ER tanks - our analysis justifies an increase in MTOW (Max Take-Off Weight) but does not, Not, NOT justify an increase in Landing Weight.

Sorry, Krea, for being such a doofus over technicalities! Either way, thanks for sharing your experience building our tanks - much appreciated!
 
Please feel free to reach-out to me directly if you have any questions about ER Tanks (or any of our other products for that matter :cool: )

Regarding the weight increase with Sky Designs ER tanks - our analysis justifies an increase in MTOW (Max Take-Off Weight) but does not, Not, NOT justify an increase in Landing Weight.

Sorry, Krea, for being such a doofus over technicalities! Either way, thanks for sharing your experience building our tanks - much appreciated!

Hey Ken,
Krea mentioned something about Kent possibly offering completed tanks. Do you have anything to add or to expand on that subject??
 
Hi Mark,
Yes, what Krea said is correct. Kent, having no lack of enthusiasm, is contemplating building tanks.

He is in the "contemplation" stage and not ready to begin immediately. That said, if this is something you'd be interested in, please let me know!
 
Hi Mark,
Yes, what Krea said is correct. Kent, having no lack of enthusiasm, is contemplating building tanks.

He is in the "contemplation" stage and not ready to begin immediately. That said, if this is something you'd be interested in, please let me know!

Sounds good Ken. I’ll shoot you an email and we can go from there.
Thanks!!
 
RV-10 ER Tank Kits and complete RV tanks

Thank you Krea for mentioning my interest in offering complete RV tanks. Once Ken Krueger's nice RV-10 ER kits are shipping from my shop in Seven Lakes, NC, we will give this more serious thought. I have two A&P sons and plenty of RV builders around here who will be sure to nitpick whatever I would do. The first ER kits go out from here next week. Whatever we might do will be in close collaboration with our friend Ken K. Regarding shipping, I think it would be actually simpler to ship a completed unit as opposed to the kits, which are not much of a challenge really. Strong boxes and good packing material make it all possible. Ken and his trusted cohort, his lovely wife Susan, have mastered this and we are just following their lead. Merry Christmas!
 
Please feel free to reach-out to me directly if you have any questions about ER Tanks (or any of our other products for that matter :cool: )

Regarding the weight increase with Sky Designs ER tanks - our analysis justifies an increase in MTOW (Max Take-Off Weight) but does not, Not, NOT justify an increase in Landing Weight.

Sorry, Krea, for being such a doofus over technicalities! Either way, thanks for sharing your experience building our tanks - much appreciated!

Ken, as always, I appreciate your thoroughness and the correction. I should have been more precise.
 
Standard tank range

I appreciate that having more options is great but I hope all of this discussion about adding range doesn’t give anyone the impression that the standard tanks are inadequate for most pilots needs.

Here are a couple of screenshots of real trips with standard tanks.
 

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I appreciate that having more options is great but I hope all of this discussion about adding range doesn’t give anyone the impression that the standard tanks are inadequate for most pilots needs.

Here are a couple of screenshots of real trips with standard tanks.

I agree. I have gone chicago - dallas non stop several times and can even make chicago - denver non stop when the winds are light or are in my favor. I even made new orleans - chicago non stop. These are all while cruising at 165 KTAS, though often at 13 or 14K. I find the range impressive. In fairness, several of these were with VFR reserves and wouldn't have pushed it that close in IMC.
 
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Round-trips

I think one of the main advantage to having the larger tanks is having the ability to do round trip flights without having to worry about refueling or to get you to your favorite fuel stop.

As an example, I fly from south Louisiana out to west Texas and back all the time in my -8. I burn MOGAS so I’m very limited as to which airports sell it. Fortunately, there’s one stop along my route that sells MOGAS and I always plan my flight to stop there and top off.

With the -8’s 42 gallon tanks I have to make stops there both coming and going. However, with the larger 68 gallon ER tanks that I’ll have on the -14 I’ll be able to make that same round trip flight and only have to stop once rather than twice for fuel.
 
These ER tanks open up a lot of options for IFR flying. My primary motivation for installing them is for flying to/from and around Alaska. I can see a lot of benefit for owners in Australia where airports are pretty spread out.

The cost is minimal to add them to a slow build wing kit and the installation looks pretty straightforward. It is more involved on a QB or completed wing.

I haven't heard any reasonable arguments against installing them on a slow build wing.
 
I too just purchased Ken’s ER tanks for my RV 10. I am at a snafu in decision making between going with the CIES or Stewart warner floats. Either way I am installing two floats per wing but the price difference is substantially different. Anyone have any thoughts to just going with the Vans floats??? Ken told
Me he never had any problems with his. Thoughts

I used the stock floats in my RV10 and they work fine when the fuel gets low enough. I would use the Stuart Warner floats again. However I would use the ClickBond blind nut plates that bond on and use 10-32 nut plates to match the SW floats. I did not use any proseal on mine so they would be easy to replace.
message me at 702-521-1840 and I will send you a picture of the install.
 
These ER tanks open up a lot of options for IFR flying. My primary motivation for installing them is for flying to/from and around Alaska. I can see a lot of benefit for owners in Australia where airports are pretty spread out.

The cost is minimal to add them to a slow build wing kit and the installation looks pretty straightforward. It is more involved on a QB or completed wing.

I haven't heard any reasonable arguments against installing them on a slow build wing.

Yep spot on. At a guess 50% or more of all Australian RV10s have some form of larger fuel capacity. Wing tip / additional leading edge / internal / temporary bladder, you name it, I’ve seen it.
We certainly don’t enjoy the en route options that our American cousins enjoy.
Big country, limited fuel.
These tanks are a no brainer here. Just a shame I need to build another set. At least I haven’t painted yet!
 
Installing My Sky Designs ER Tanks on my RV10

Hello Everyone!
I was one of the builders who purchased SD's ER tanks for my RV10. I guess I was one of the lucky ones who saw these before I started my wing kit.

Since these have not been out for a long time, I am making vidoes of my new wing install.

Please see attached video to my You Tube Channel. Please bare with me as I get the additional videos uploaded. I am in the process of doing my build.

PLEASE SUPORT MY CHANNEL MY LIKING AND SUBSCRIBING!

https://youtu.be/XqsoXgYcA5U
 
Just hook up both outputs, running each thru a series resistor, to the efis input. Modern efis units can be calibrated every few gallons. No need for the system to be linear.

Very true regarding linearity and calibration, just be careful not to exceed total range resistance.

If you're using a GEA 24 (G3X system), then it's ready to accept 0-500Ω inputs without additional resistance, so you can simply tie the two outputs together without a resistor as well. In the case of the SW 385 series (The Van's provided sender), the single unit resistance should be 20-240Ω, but with two senders in parallel, the combined output would be 10-120Ω. The G3X works fine with that.

Noting that you will now have twice as many data points from 10-120Ω with two senders than you would with a single sender at 20-240Ω, I recommend calibrating in 1 gallon increments (or smaller if you have the time) to get the most accurate calibration curve.
 
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Anyone flying yet?

Anyone actually flying with these yet? Any tangible effect on flight characteristics (assuming retrofit)? Any spin tests (however unofficial ;) )? Very interested in them for my -10 build.
 
Finish up install as we speak.
Hopefully flying this week.
If you reach out to Ken he has an extensive engineering report that should answer most of your questions.
 
Anyone actually flying with these yet? Any tangible effect on flight characteristics (assuming retrofit)? Any spin tests (however unofficial ;) )? Very interested in them for my -10 build.

There are two or three flying RV-10's with ER tanks that were completed at Synergy Air South. No spin testing as far as I know. One of the three is owned by a former military test pilot and he did the appropriate tests from Phase I after the modification. He reported no change in flying qualities.

As Richard said, Ken will provide you with better information.
 
RV-10 Sky Designs ER tanks

For those that have completed your tanks, have you verified the amount of fuel they actually hold? Are they coming near the advertised 41.5 a side? Mid build on mine and thinking about sending the caps out to be engraved.

Thanks,
Todd
 
For those that have completed your tanks, have you verified the amount of fuel they actually hold? Are they coming near the advertised 41.5 a side? Mid build on mine and thinking about sending the caps out to be engraved.

Thanks,
Todd

Mine took 157.5L a side. 41.61G
 
Kit Cost Delta

EDITED: Does anyone know what the cost delta is on the Vans kit price for the additions and deletions for the standard wing kit (not quickbuild) for RV-10 looks like? I've emailed Vans, but the person said they don't have the bandwidth to give me price delta, and additions/subtractions are only given as a courtesy. Thanks in advance! I'm assuming it's pretty negligible but a roundabout "same-ish" or "a little more/a little less/a lot more/a lot less" would be helpful. Thanks!
 
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I don’t know since I’m building an RV-14a, and I already had the wings when I decided to do the ER tanks.

However, if you take the deletion list and price the parts on the van’s store that will give you a ball park. You will get less than that, but it will get you a rough idea.

-Dan
 
I don’t know since I’m building an RV-14a, and I already had the wings when I decided to do the ER tanks.

However, if you take the deletion list and price the parts on the van’s store that will give you a ball park. You will get less than that, but it will get you a rough idea.

-Dan
Thanks Dan, that's a great idea. It ended up working out to about $325 in the positive, so I'm assuming that's cut quite a bit with their bundle pricing, but still helpful. Thanks!
 
Price

Thanks Dan, that's a great idea. It ended up working out to about $325 in the positive, so I'm assuming that's cut quite a bit with their bundle pricing, but still helpful. Thanks!

In some cases, the price credited will be “kit” price which may be half of the retail price in the web store…
 
In some cases, the price credited will be “kit” price which may be half of the retail price in the web store…
Yeah, that's what I was figuring. I'm thinking most likely I'll get close to a credit from Vans that will cover most of the shipping from NC to AZ on the ER tank package.
 
So are the parts shipping from Ken’s location in Wa or from Kent’s location in NC? Who is actually producing these parts? Are they pre-punched to 3-32 size holes or final size #40 holes? Are they punched or laser cut and if laser cut has anyone seen any burr/burn issues like seen on the new Van’s parts?

Sorry for all of the questions but I’m debating tearing my wings down (wings are basically done minus attaching bottom skins) and ordering these once Ken opens up the order window again (I read on the website he has suspended orders till at least July).

Thanks,
Zach
 
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