MartinPred
Well Known Member
Not sure which catagory to post this in, but I'm interested in mounting a paintball gun and a flour-bomb rack on my RV-4. Has anyone done this before? Any tips?
Thanks,
-Martin
Thanks,
-Martin
Van's Air Force
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Mounting Weapons (for fun)
- Thread starter MartinPred
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Captain_John
Well Known Member
I don't see why it wouldn't work in flight.
What does the speed of the vehicle have to do with it? The projectile will move 300 fps. (or so) faster than whatever launched it.
I say utilize the wing tie downs as hard points...
Bluetooth technology for triggering!
CJ
What does the speed of the vehicle have to do with it? The projectile will move 300 fps. (or so) faster than whatever launched it.
I say utilize the wing tie downs as hard points...
Bluetooth technology for triggering!
CJTom Maxwell
Well Known Member
Paint Ball Mass
Yes the initial muzzle velocity may be 300 FPS faster than the aircraft but it isn't the same as firing a military type projectile. A military projectile has a lot of mass while a paint ball has very little mass. Couple the low mass with a heck of a lot of air pressure in the opposite direction and I am thinking you might end up with a nicely painted leading edge.
I guess to test you could take your paint ball gun out in a 100 mile an hour hurricane and shoot it into the wind. Or just stand behind your RV with the throttle wide open and see if you can hit the empenage. Be sure to wear your goggles.
Of course I am no physicist so I may be wrong.
This is a thought provoking question though.
Yes the initial muzzle velocity may be 300 FPS faster than the aircraft but it isn't the same as firing a military type projectile. A military projectile has a lot of mass while a paint ball has very little mass. Couple the low mass with a heck of a lot of air pressure in the opposite direction and I am thinking you might end up with a nicely painted leading edge.
I guess to test you could take your paint ball gun out in a 100 mile an hour hurricane and shoot it into the wind. Or just stand behind your RV with the throttle wide open and see if you can hit the empenage. Be sure to wear your goggles.
Of course I am no physicist so I may be wrong.
This is a thought provoking question though.
Dgamble
Well Known Member
I think your point is valid in that persons hit with paintballs seldom, if ever, die of it. I chalk that up to the low mass and hence low momentum of the ammo. The air resistance probably slows them significantly and relatively quickly. It would be kind of cool if it worked, though!
Tom Maxwell said:Yes the initial muzzle velocity may be 300 FPS faster than the aircraft but it isn't the same as firing a military type projectile. A military projectile has a lot of mass while a paint ball has very little mass. Couple the low mass with a heck of a lot of air pressure in the opposite direction and I am thinking you might end up with a nicely painted leading edge.
I guess to test you could take your paint ball gun out in a 100 mile an hour hurricane and shoot it into the wind. Or just stand behind your RV with the throttle wide open and see if you can hit the empenage. Be sure to wear your goggles.
Of course I am no physicist so I may be wrong.
This is a thought provoking question though.
MartinPred
Well Known Member
Terminal Velocity
I've been doing a little poking around. It turns out that the muzzle velocity of most paintball guns is around 200 mph. So I'm assuming the terminal velocity of a paintball is higher than that.
If you throttle back to 100 mph for your strafing run, you might get a 200-300 mph paintball. More than enough to a make a few satisfying spashes on a target.
-Martin
I've been doing a little poking around. It turns out that the muzzle velocity of most paintball guns is around 200 mph. So I'm assuming the terminal velocity of a paintball is higher than that.
If you throttle back to 100 mph for your strafing run, you might get a 200-300 mph paintball. More than enough to a make a few satisfying spashes on a target.
-Martin
Terminal Velocity?
Actually, the terminal velocity of a paintball has no relation to the speed at which it exits the barrel of the gun.
Think about bullets fired straight up. They don't come down with a higher velocity. Generally, the gas pressure that fires projectiles from guns increases the speed of the projectile above the terminal velocity.
From my experience skydiving (and chasing things like small pumpkins and other round fluid filled objects on occasion) none of the objects went 200 miles per hour. How do I know? I caught up with most of them.
What you need are depleted uranium paintballs.
Actually, the terminal velocity of a paintball has no relation to the speed at which it exits the barrel of the gun.
Think about bullets fired straight up. They don't come down with a higher velocity. Generally, the gas pressure that fires projectiles from guns increases the speed of the projectile above the terminal velocity.
From my experience skydiving (and chasing things like small pumpkins and other round fluid filled objects on occasion) none of the objects went 200 miles per hour. How do I know? I caught up with most of them.
What you need are depleted uranium paintballs.
N713R
Well Known Member
FALL GUY IS RIGHT.
Just last night on Mythbusters, they did this experiment with firing a gun straight up into the air. The determination was that the bullets return to earth a no more than terminal velocity. However, if the gun was even slightly off of straight up, then it did carry some energy from the bullets original charge. The trouble comes in when you try to get it straight up, and also one must figure in the wind. I know this is not exactly on the subject asked, but it was a very interesting experiment. As far as the paintball shots from the airplane, I would be concerned that the plan may not work. My thought would be that you would have to slow the airplane down to get any kind of shot off, which is not ideal, in that it will expose you to enemy fire from the anti-aircraft guns.
The other thought that comes to mind, is that paintball guns don't have a tremendous amount of range. One would have to increase the pressure on the gun to get some velocity, and thus range, and given the fact that you are already travelling a fair speed, the pressure exerted on the paintball woud rupture the ball, then you would end up flying into your own paint. (which doesn't look good when you get back to camp with your own color paint all over your plane)
As far as the flour, it is great fun, but be careful one misguided flour bomb was dropped at our airport years back, and ended up in the FBO hanger. Went right through the steel roof. Roof stll has a drip there during heavy rains. (luckily no one was injured in the mishap)
Just my thoughts
Just last night on Mythbusters, they did this experiment with firing a gun straight up into the air. The determination was that the bullets return to earth a no more than terminal velocity. However, if the gun was even slightly off of straight up, then it did carry some energy from the bullets original charge. The trouble comes in when you try to get it straight up, and also one must figure in the wind. I know this is not exactly on the subject asked, but it was a very interesting experiment. As far as the paintball shots from the airplane, I would be concerned that the plan may not work. My thought would be that you would have to slow the airplane down to get any kind of shot off, which is not ideal, in that it will expose you to enemy fire from the anti-aircraft guns.
The other thought that comes to mind, is that paintball guns don't have a tremendous amount of range. One would have to increase the pressure on the gun to get some velocity, and thus range, and given the fact that you are already travelling a fair speed, the pressure exerted on the paintball woud rupture the ball, then you would end up flying into your own paint. (which doesn't look good when you get back to camp with your own color paint all over your plane)
As far as the flour, it is great fun, but be careful one misguided flour bomb was dropped at our airport years back, and ended up in the FBO hanger. Went right through the steel roof. Roof stll has a drip there during heavy rains. (luckily no one was injured in the mishap)
Just my thoughts
joeboisselle
Well Known Member
A buddy and I tried shooting his paintball gun while in flight in my ol' luscombe. It didn't work. It's kinda like trying to spit out a car window...at 110 mph.
Captain_John
Well Known Member
Hmmmmmmm, yah... I see dat.
Ok then... tailgunner position with a camera sight?
CJ
Ok then... tailgunner position with a camera sight?
CJalpinelakespilot2000
Well Known Member
I hate to be a party pooper, and no offense intended, but is this theoretical argument a little bit moot? Who's going to get close enough to another aircraft (or anything else) to hit it with a paintball gun?
joeboisselle
Well Known Member
Steve,
I went to Big Bend Community College up there in Moses Lake for my a&p, my powerplant instructor up there had a Aeronca Chief. We were doing some formation flying over the potholes resevoir and with his permission, we were trying to shoot him down. We decided someone was going to need to develope a gun with ALOT more power. Or the tail gun with camera would work, but lets not start another thread about c.g. changes, rigging, cost etc... My 2 cents.
I went to Big Bend Community College up there in Moses Lake for my a&p, my powerplant instructor up there had a Aeronca Chief. We were doing some formation flying over the potholes resevoir and with his permission, we were trying to shoot him down. We decided someone was going to need to develope a gun with ALOT more power. Or the tail gun with camera would work, but lets not start another thread about c.g. changes, rigging, cost etc... My 2 cents.
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brianwallis
VAF moderator
suggestion
hmmmm I would just mount a viewing device... plexi w some magic marker rings w velcro to the dash and a lipstick camera to make it offical and go that route.. the SS gets nervous when we start talking about hardpoints... (Although I think if someone made a centerline cargopod that looks like the big centerline fuel tanks for the fighters that would hold golf clubs... they would be rich.... just an idea) I had 4 hardpoints on my UH-60 that would hold 450 and 230 gal fuel tanks and a few other things wink wink.....
hmmmm I would just mount a viewing device... plexi w some magic marker rings w velcro to the dash and a lipstick camera to make it offical and go that route.. the SS gets nervous when we start talking about hardpoints... (Although I think if someone made a centerline cargopod that looks like the big centerline fuel tanks for the fighters that would hold golf clubs... they would be rich.... just an idea) I had 4 hardpoints on my UH-60 that would hold 450 and 230 gal fuel tanks and a few other things wink wink.....
I played 4 years of pro paintball. I can tell you that shot would be waaay off target. I played a tournament in TX where I had to shoot 3 feet off target to get anything close to hitting just because of the wind. IMO, I think it would be a waste of time to mount a paintball gun on your plane.
John Courte
Well Known Member
I've found that frozen paintballs retain their integrity rather well..
But this is DEFINITELY a bad idea.
But this is DEFINITELY a bad idea.
MartinPred
Well Known Member
Rocket Pod
Now this got the gears turning. At a little over $3 a piece, a launcher for these would be easy to rig:
http://www.toyhaus.com/Merchant2/me...Product_Code=EST1887&Category_Code=rwolprtfne
You could put together a simple master-arm/launcher-select switch on your panel, and wire it to the trigger of your Infinity stick grip.
For safety, you should do it just like we do in the Air Force for live weapons practice. Go out on a good sized piece of land, and have a rang controller with a radio (or even a simple colored paddle like the Navy uses).
You'd have to make pattern calls. Set a "hard deck" altitude and have a safety observer in the other seat to make sure you don't bust it. And when you call "in from the South" (or whatever direction your coming in from), the range controller (who's careful to be deconflicted from your run-in heading) could make sure there's no one on the range and then tell you you're "cleared hot." You'd also have to have an abort procedure in case someone wanders into your range.
Sounds like loads of fun. Almost as fun as the real thing. Before you know it we'll have RVs as FAC-As in Iraq.
-Martin
402BD
P.S. Make sure you add a "Master Arm--Off" step to your descent checklist. Wouldn't want to accidentally pickle at someone on the ramp.
osxuser said:
Now this got the gears turning. At a little over $3 a piece, a launcher for these would be easy to rig:
http://www.toyhaus.com/Merchant2/me...Product_Code=EST1887&Category_Code=rwolprtfne
You could put together a simple master-arm/launcher-select switch on your panel, and wire it to the trigger of your Infinity stick grip.
For safety, you should do it just like we do in the Air Force for live weapons practice. Go out on a good sized piece of land, and have a rang controller with a radio (or even a simple colored paddle like the Navy uses).
You'd have to make pattern calls. Set a "hard deck" altitude and have a safety observer in the other seat to make sure you don't bust it. And when you call "in from the South" (or whatever direction your coming in from), the range controller (who's careful to be deconflicted from your run-in heading) could make sure there's no one on the range and then tell you you're "cleared hot." You'd also have to have an abort procedure in case someone wanders into your range.
Sounds like loads of fun. Almost as fun as the real thing. Before you know it we'll have RVs as FAC-As in Iraq.
-Martin
402BD
P.S. Make sure you add a "Master Arm--Off" step to your descent checklist. Wouldn't want to accidentally pickle at someone on the ramp.
MartinPred said:
I saw an RV-4 a couple years ago with bomb racks. The racks were simple solinoids attached to one of the wing inspection covers for easy removal. The "bombs" were 2 liter soda bottles modified with fins. I never heard how accurate his bombing was.
Scott A. Jordan
N733JJ
Thermonuclear Hailstones
(The usual disclaimers of course, "never ever try this at home")
Paintballs seem interesting, but you should see what a thermonuclear hailstone, frozen in a liter bottle with fins made from ice frozen in a cake pan, will do to and old farm shed when dropped from and ultralight. Awesome!
(The usual disclaimers of course, "never ever try this at home")
Paintballs seem interesting, but you should see what a thermonuclear hailstone, frozen in a liter bottle with fins made from ice frozen in a cake pan, will do to and old farm shed when dropped from and ultralight. Awesome!
southtarnation
Well Known Member
Unfortunately I thought about crossing my paintball fun with the rv fun. If you are looking at the typical fighter-type-firing, then like they all say it would be peeing in the wind, but... cant you mount them to point down at 45 degrees or straight down? So its like rapid fire bombing with at least a little extra umph. Cheaper then flower and you can see what you hit when you come back 'round...
On a safer note. Does anyone know of a laser tag setup that could be installed on plane? Maybe a static cling reflector for reception and a lil red light that tells you -you are dead...
On a safer note. Does anyone know of a laser tag setup that could be installed on plane? Maybe a static cling reflector for reception and a lil red light that tells you -you are dead...
N941WR
Legacy Member
Forget the paintball, what about lasers?
How difficult would it be to modify lazer tag guns and targes to an RV?
The key would be to put some indicator in the cockpit so you knew when you were shot. Turning on smoke would be cool, like the fighter schools do, but that may be overkill.
How difficult would it be to modify lazer tag guns and targes to an RV?
The key would be to put some indicator in the cockpit so you knew when you were shot. Turning on smoke would be cool, like the fighter schools do, but that may be overkill.
This is unwise, people. Discussing in open forum about mounting bomb racks and paintball guns and lasers on RV's? As harmless as some of these might be in reality, are you trying to give the feds more excuses to classify GA as a threat???
Please DO NOT ever fire any projectile or laser from a GA aircraft.
Please DO NOT ever fire any projectile or laser from a GA aircraft.
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I remember hearing a couple planes announce there position in the aerobatic box north of Phoenix doing sim dog fights.
May have been these people here as they have a laser tag type program.
http://www.fightercombat.com/brochures/aircombat_fci.pdf
May have been these people here as they have a laser tag type program.
http://www.fightercombat.com/brochures/aircombat_fci.pdf
David Shelton
Well Known Member
Bomb Drop
I used to parachute chocolate to my girlfriend when flying a Cessna 1-52 or Cub. I now fly an RV-10 so I can't open a door or window to drop stuff!
I'm tempted to put a bomb drop on the belly, just like the ones that I put on model airplanes. Basically, you make a little box and use a hobby servo to open/close the bombay doors. I should be able to hook it up to a spare switch on my control switch.
For precision drops, I bought a small parafoil kite. I want to hook up a servo to pull on the rear risers and see if I can turn it into a radio control parachute. I'll post some pictures when I get around to it.
I used to parachute chocolate to my girlfriend when flying a Cessna 1-52 or Cub. I now fly an RV-10 so I can't open a door or window to drop stuff!
I'm tempted to put a bomb drop on the belly, just like the ones that I put on model airplanes. Basically, you make a little box and use a hobby servo to open/close the bombay doors. I should be able to hook it up to a spare switch on my control switch.
For precision drops, I bought a small parafoil kite. I want to hook up a servo to pull on the rear risers and see if I can turn it into a radio control parachute. I'll post some pictures when I get around to it.
Lionclaw
Well Known Member
I've heard of flour bombing competitions at fly-ins. I like the idea of a unit that attaches to the wing tie downs. It could have a self-contained battery, use a solenoid, and be activated with a car alarm remote. Then you can just make your bomb run, land, remove it and give it to the next guy
rv7charlie
Well Known Member
John Clark
Well Known Member
But how will it sound at the hearing?
FAR 91.15 Dropping objects.
No pilot in command of a civil aircraft may allow any object to be dropped from that aircraft in flight that creates a hazard to persons or property. However, this section does not prohibit the dropping of any object if reasonable precautions are taken to avoid injury or damage to persons or property.
John S. Clark ATP, CFI
FAAST Team Member
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
FAR 91.15 Dropping objects.
No pilot in command of a civil aircraft may allow any object to be dropped from that aircraft in flight that creates a hazard to persons or property. However, this section does not prohibit the dropping of any object if reasonable precautions are taken to avoid injury or damage to persons or property.
John S. Clark ATP, CFI
FAAST Team Member
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
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This is getting ridiculous
I fully agree.
Isn't there enough scrutiny by the FAA, TSA and other governmental agencies without giving them another reason to to impose more restrictions and regulations on GA? For the life of me I cannot believe this irresponsible thread has not been deleted.
I fully agree.
Isn't there enough scrutiny by the FAA, TSA and other governmental agencies without giving them another reason to to impose more restrictions and regulations on GA? For the life of me I cannot believe this irresponsible thread has not been deleted.
N941WR
Legacy Member
This is getting ridiculous - Yes it is!
Keep talking about bombs, aircraft with guns, etc. guys. Maybe big brother will realize there is too much talk to sensor it all.
It is ridiculous when you have to self sensor a thread when there is no intent to do harm. That tells me we have gone too far.
Keep talking about bombs, aircraft with guns, etc. guys. Maybe big brother will realize there is too much talk to sensor it all.
Mike S
Senior Curmudgeon
I'm Not Big Brother
I'm not Big Brother, but one is in denial if they believe for one second that Government Agencies and Commercial Airline Companies are not out there looking for all possible means to eliminate GA. Look what they've already done to corporate jet fleets and pilots! Also, there has been volumes written about the TSA's secret airport security mandate recently implemented at several GA Airports. Additionally, this week there was a tape on AvWeb about Customs Agents at Long Beach Airport with their lights blazing, who stopped a pilot and his passengers at gunpoint for a "routine search" after he filed a flight plan to Mexico. One passenger was afraid to lower his hands from his head in order to release his seat belt so he could exit the airplane as demanded by the screaming Customs Agents thinking these "Customs Agents" might shoot him! Isn't this evidence enough that our freedom to fly is already in serious jeopardy? Do we need to add fuel to the fire?
Given such activity by Customs and the TSA and all the intense scrutiny GA is currently under, is it logical to be talking about installing weapons on airplanes? Is such talk not sufficient reason enough to have the TSA or Customs start making "random" visits to our hangars with guns pointed? After all, random hangar checks could be the TSA's next agenda item. Has anyone ever had a pair of Secret Service Agents visit their hangar? I have. It does not give one a warm feeling, I assure you.
What upsets me most is that while I spend my time and efforts writing my Congressmen, the EAA, the AOPA and contributing to the AOPA's pleas to help them in their fight to stop or slow down the Government's efforts to legislate and price GA out of business, others unknowingly undermine these efforts by talking about installing weapons on their aircraft. Why should I continue to use my time and my $ to fight to maintain the freedom to fly while others do just the opposite by taunting those with the power to rescind that liberty tomorrow?
Have your "harmless fun" as you call it while it is still possible because continued talk of attaching weapons to airplanes, no matter how harmless it may seem, will not help the already tarnished image of small "homebuilt" airplanes. Such talk can only serve to aid the TSA, Secret Service and other Agencies (Big Brother) in their endeavor to relegate small private GA aircraft to museums. Right now, they are still trying to permanently ground Warbirds. So maybe we can replace Warbirds and move up to the top spot on their list.
All the Best
I'm not Big Brother, but one is in denial if they believe for one second that Government Agencies and Commercial Airline Companies are not out there looking for all possible means to eliminate GA. Look what they've already done to corporate jet fleets and pilots! Also, there has been volumes written about the TSA's secret airport security mandate recently implemented at several GA Airports. Additionally, this week there was a tape on AvWeb about Customs Agents at Long Beach Airport with their lights blazing, who stopped a pilot and his passengers at gunpoint for a "routine search" after he filed a flight plan to Mexico. One passenger was afraid to lower his hands from his head in order to release his seat belt so he could exit the airplane as demanded by the screaming Customs Agents thinking these "Customs Agents" might shoot him! Isn't this evidence enough that our freedom to fly is already in serious jeopardy? Do we need to add fuel to the fire?
Given such activity by Customs and the TSA and all the intense scrutiny GA is currently under, is it logical to be talking about installing weapons on airplanes? Is such talk not sufficient reason enough to have the TSA or Customs start making "random" visits to our hangars with guns pointed? After all, random hangar checks could be the TSA's next agenda item. Has anyone ever had a pair of Secret Service Agents visit their hangar? I have. It does not give one a warm feeling, I assure you.
What upsets me most is that while I spend my time and efforts writing my Congressmen, the EAA, the AOPA and contributing to the AOPA's pleas to help them in their fight to stop or slow down the Government's efforts to legislate and price GA out of business, others unknowingly undermine these efforts by talking about installing weapons on their aircraft. Why should I continue to use my time and my $ to fight to maintain the freedom to fly while others do just the opposite by taunting those with the power to rescind that liberty tomorrow?
Have your "harmless fun" as you call it while it is still possible because continued talk of attaching weapons to airplanes, no matter how harmless it may seem, will not help the already tarnished image of small "homebuilt" airplanes. Such talk can only serve to aid the TSA, Secret Service and other Agencies (Big Brother) in their endeavor to relegate small private GA aircraft to museums. Right now, they are still trying to permanently ground Warbirds. So maybe we can replace Warbirds and move up to the top spot on their list.
All the Best
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MartinPred
Well Known Member
This Isn't North Korea (and it won't be anytime soon)
I wonder if some of us aren't over-reacting just a bit. No one's talking about mounting actual weapons on their airplanes (paintball and balsa-wood rockets just aren't in the same category as assault rifles--which by the way are LEGAL in the US). In fact no one on this post has admitted to mounting anything on their airplanes. We're still in the spitball phase.
There's a reason why Title 14 of the US code DOES allow you the option of dropping objects from your aircraft if you take "reasonable precautions". The FARs also allow you to fly formation in any class of airspace (as long as you brief it up), and strap yourself to anything that's remotely airworthy (again, as long as you follow the FARs). It's the same reason why the FARs allow you to fly VFR in Class G at less than 1,200 feet AGL with only 1 mile of visibility even in mountainous terrain. No one in their right mind would do that--and yet the FARs allow it. Why is that? Because this is America. And the FARs are written with a default to personal liberty. Let's not forget that not only do we have the safest air transportation system in the world, but we also have the most freedom in the air of any industrialized country.
So I'm not worried about the TSA or the FAA as long as I comply with the FARs. And in my view, this thread has been altogether measured and responsible. There ARE other (perfectly legal) web sites where US citizens actually propose organizing themselves for the purpose of causing actual harm to the government and its citizens. This is not one of them.
I recently read an Op-Ed where the AOPA was mentioned in the same sentence as the NRA. This seems entirely appropriate to me. And while I don't often agree with the NRA (and I usually agree with the AOPA), I admire the dogged determination of both groups to protect the rights of US citizens.
I'm also not worried about the Airlines or any other interest groups. The simple fact is that the Airlines couldn't survive without being subsidized by a whole host of outside contributions. They couldn't afford to build their own airports, run their own ATC, or provide primary training for their pilots. So they have to tolerate government regulation, unions, and yes, GA.
I know a lot of people think the FAA is out to get them or shut them down. This hasn't been my experience. In my flying career I've had three or four encounters with the FAA (both for personal and professional reasons) and I've always found that the number factor influencing how the FAA will treat you is your attitude. If you demonstrate a positive attitude and willingness to respect the FARs, the FAA is likely find a way to give you what you want and keep you flying. If you demonstrate hostility or resentment toward the FAA, they will have no reason to work with you.
Now I DO think that we need to exercise the utmost caution when engaging in these riskier activities (which is why I earlier suggested that you set up a proper range, with a proper range controller, use procedures to make sure the range is clear and that you can abort if needed, and stick to the Class G airspace). But if we pursue our hobby in a responsible manner and mitigate the risk wherever possible, we ought not fear the government. And we certainly ought not to fear each other.
-Martin
402BD
P.S. Take a walk around OSH next month, and I'm guessing you're gong to see LOTS of warbirds.
I wonder if some of us aren't over-reacting just a bit. No one's talking about mounting actual weapons on their airplanes (paintball and balsa-wood rockets just aren't in the same category as assault rifles--which by the way are LEGAL in the US). In fact no one on this post has admitted to mounting anything on their airplanes. We're still in the spitball phase.
There's a reason why Title 14 of the US code DOES allow you the option of dropping objects from your aircraft if you take "reasonable precautions". The FARs also allow you to fly formation in any class of airspace (as long as you brief it up), and strap yourself to anything that's remotely airworthy (again, as long as you follow the FARs). It's the same reason why the FARs allow you to fly VFR in Class G at less than 1,200 feet AGL with only 1 mile of visibility even in mountainous terrain. No one in their right mind would do that--and yet the FARs allow it. Why is that? Because this is America. And the FARs are written with a default to personal liberty. Let's not forget that not only do we have the safest air transportation system in the world, but we also have the most freedom in the air of any industrialized country.
So I'm not worried about the TSA or the FAA as long as I comply with the FARs. And in my view, this thread has been altogether measured and responsible. There ARE other (perfectly legal) web sites where US citizens actually propose organizing themselves for the purpose of causing actual harm to the government and its citizens. This is not one of them.
I recently read an Op-Ed where the AOPA was mentioned in the same sentence as the NRA. This seems entirely appropriate to me. And while I don't often agree with the NRA (and I usually agree with the AOPA), I admire the dogged determination of both groups to protect the rights of US citizens.
I'm also not worried about the Airlines or any other interest groups. The simple fact is that the Airlines couldn't survive without being subsidized by a whole host of outside contributions. They couldn't afford to build their own airports, run their own ATC, or provide primary training for their pilots. So they have to tolerate government regulation, unions, and yes, GA.
I know a lot of people think the FAA is out to get them or shut them down. This hasn't been my experience. In my flying career I've had three or four encounters with the FAA (both for personal and professional reasons) and I've always found that the number factor influencing how the FAA will treat you is your attitude. If you demonstrate a positive attitude and willingness to respect the FARs, the FAA is likely find a way to give you what you want and keep you flying. If you demonstrate hostility or resentment toward the FAA, they will have no reason to work with you.
Now I DO think that we need to exercise the utmost caution when engaging in these riskier activities (which is why I earlier suggested that you set up a proper range, with a proper range controller, use procedures to make sure the range is clear and that you can abort if needed, and stick to the Class G airspace). But if we pursue our hobby in a responsible manner and mitigate the risk wherever possible, we ought not fear the government. And we certainly ought not to fear each other.
-Martin
402BD
P.S. Take a walk around OSH next month, and I'm guessing you're gong to see LOTS of warbirds.
OK guys, this thread on on interesting topic has now turned into a "Member versus Member" sniping session, and that isn't what the VAF forums are supposed to be about.
Just a friendly reminder about the tone and purpose Doug asks the moderators to look after....
Paul
Just a friendly reminder about the tone and purpose Doug asks the moderators to look after....
Paul
- Status
