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Good TW time builder suggestions

W

wickedsprint

Well Known Member
So there are no tailwheel aircraft to rent nearby where I will be living, and I'd like to avoid the slip in skills while I build my RV. So with that I'll be looking to buy an inexpensive taildragger to build a solid taildragger skill level during the build project then sell off after the RV is built.

My considerations are, cheap to buy, easy to resell and not too maintenence intensive, but I also have the yoke vs. control stick dillema floating around in my head, ie; would it be more important to find something with a traditional stick and side throttle to prepare me for RVs, or is this not really an issue?

Airplanes being considered, ideally <$35k

7ECA Citabria..Plus being aerobatic..minus being wood spar concerns

Aeronca Champ..pluses being cheap, minus being all fabric like above..but seem to be a lot for sale even locally

Cessna 140/170..plus being very available, minus being fabric wing on most which also means hangar rental like above two..plus yoke instead of stick

Cessna 150/2 Tail conversion..plus being all metal and anyone can work on it, minus being yoke and somewhat harder to find


Out of all of these, what do you think will best prepare me for an RV as well as being easy to resell?

There are also high altitude concerns, I'll be living in colorado springs which is pushing over 6000 feet.

Since I won't be in co springs for a year, maybe I should get my name on the hangar list now if they even have one.
 
hanger help(but, not much else)

Meadowlake airport (00V) has hangers available now. I'll also be giving one up at the end of October. They also don't have restrictions on what can be done in the hanger. (I pay $265)

I fly/flew a 152 out of COS and 00V without any problems. Just be carefull with the DA.

I've heard the 150/2 texas taildragger conversions are real squirlly, and seem to go for a premium price for a 152. But that's 3rd hand info.

no exp with the other birds.
 
TW

I like the Champ you sit up front and should be fairly liquid, but if you really want to stay on your toes, how about a Luscoumbe. I flew an 85hp and it peformed very well, I owned a 65hp, just needed to be more patient. When you went to full throttle it was like getting hit in the back with a marshmallow.

Randy
 
If you even think you might install a 406, you will probably have to run some wires from your GPS's serial output to the new ELT, so plan ahead.

I did not take this into account when I built my -9 and to install one means I will have to drill out the rivets in my baggage compartment to run the wires. :( That means it won't happen until the prices come down, which is happening, I want to take the plane out of the country, and/or they are mandated.
The other planes you mentioned are all good but you might also want to take a look at T-Crafts. They are good fliers, require good speed control on landing (like an RV), and are reasonably priced.
 
My dad and I have a 90 hp Champ, and it is a blast to fly. It is cheap to fly, and cheap to own. It is a piece of cake to fly compared to our Cessna 180, so I don't know how much help it would be in preparing you for an RV.
 
TW birds...

I have a Champ and an RV-6 now, and had a Citabria for a few years. The Champ is a fine intro to TW, and a barrel of fun. You probably want more than 65 hp at 6K, tho.

Miller McPherson
RV-6 900+ hrs
7AC/CCM/L16B 2000+ hrs
Hatz 200+ hrs
 
Looks like a lot of votes for the champ and citabria, which considering the proximity in price compared to a cessna 140 make more sense when their extra capability is looked at.
 
Wait a Minute!!

wickedsprint said:
Looks like a lot of votes for the champ and citabria, which considering the proximity in price compared to a cessna 140 make more sense when their extra capability is looked at.
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I read your list of potential candidate aircraft that you feel would suit your needs. You have received several good opinions, but unfortunately there is a glaring ommission on your list; a Piper PA-20 or PA-22/20 Pacer.

The Pacer has good handling characteristics, but it will keep you honest. If you are proficient in a Pacer, you will have no trouble with an RV.
Many Pacers have been retrofitted with an O-320 which will give you plenty of power for operations in high D.A. environments. Even a Pacer with the O-290 will still give you better performance than the other on you list.
If you would like more informationon the Pacer, feel free to contact me. I have a PA-20 with an O-320 and have had it all over the western USA.
 
J-3 85HP

Metal Prop,like-new fabric, Cleveland Brakes,looks like a new plane. Airport neighbor asking 29,500. I'll fwd your name/email to him.

Seller had a 'free 70K' RV-7 ride yesterday and is now a potential RVer. Has been helping on our RV-10 and getting the bug.

BTW: I used to keep a 65 HP Luscombe 8A at Meadowlake in the mid 70's. Fun times!
 
Just fly

Any of the above mentioned are fine. All will underperform the RV. But, sounds like you are just looking for something to keep the logbook pages filled while you build. And - you're not marrying it, just dating. Keep your eyes open and when something you like comes around - get it.

Also - stick vs yoke - non issue. Don't factor that in to your decision. Flying anything is better - and more fun - than flying nothing.

Be careful. You might like low and slow.
 
uble renting tail dragger here also. Have a share in a 172, not much help in learning to fly my rv7 still in wing stage. Fuse being ordered now. So I bought a 7eca!! Best thing I ever did! Half the price of a cub. 1/4 of a super cub! My citabria was 32k a cub in as good of shape..55k a super cub 100+k, but the super cub is twice the plane a citabria is. Wow what a ride! It had 180 hp, but was $140k my cit is also fun, just not as fast, it carries FAT people really well! Cruise, putt putt speed, 75k gs. Wood spar in wing. The wood spare, if in good shape is somewhat better. It flexes a lot and no problem. Metal spar, no flex! Good, bad, I don't know, but my IA likes the wood spars better. Having a ball, logged 45 hrs now in 6 weeks. I think it will be much easier reselling than the other airplanes I mentioned, simply by the cost! My neighbor has 12000 hrs, has owned over 30 cit, cubs etc. he has an RV 4. He said the cit or the cubs are great for the tail dragger experience. He also has/had 150, 172 and a 180. Sunday, he was flying an ultra light!! This guy is over 70 and fly?s almost every day! He can fly anything. Every time he has landed and exited the plane he had a huge smile! And makes a comment,, "cheated the bast...d again! Ha ha" then he comes over and starts talking airplanes! Nice guy also, full of knowledge and help. And seeks nothing in return!
 
Sir,
I was in the same situation that you are in. I bought the C140 after doing much research. The plane has been great. Zero maintenance almost and very cheap to operate. I actually got my tailwheel endorsement in it and have logged about 100 hours of flight time. I should be completing my RV soon and will need to sell my C140. I have not really advertised it much (because if I don?t sell it, I can stay current). If you are interested in the plane, send me a PM. I do know that for me, it was the right choice.
 
Join a glider club in need of a tow pilot. You will get all the tail wheel time you want. Try Black Forrest in the Springs area.
 
I would second the comments made by VETE - I'm in the same position and have been very seriously considering buying a TW time builder. I got my tailwheel endorsement recently in a Citabria, and let me tell you, that plane is FUN to fly. It handles so well and the visibility is great - it's just a really confidence inspiring plane. I would very seriously consider buying one, but the problem is... I don't have a hangar, and don't want one (yet).

You can't keep a ragwing airplane outside, especially not in Southern California, right??

By the way... If anyone in the LA area is interested, I'm actively looking to create a partnership on a 140/170 or hangared citabria/etc for this very purpose - PM me.
 
SteelMike said:
I would second the comments made by VETE - I'm in the same position and have been very seriously considering buying a TW time builder. I got my tailwheel endorsement recently in a Citabria, and let me tell you, that plane is FUN to fly. It handles so well and the visibility is great - it's just a really confidence inspiring plane. I would very seriously consider buying one, but the problem is... I don't have a hangar, and don't want one (yet).

You can't keep a ragwing airplane outside, especially not in Southern California, right??

By the way... If anyone in the LA area is interested, I'm actively looking to create a partnership on a 140/170 or hangared citabria/etc for this very purpose - PM me.
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I agree about the Citabria, I had a pretty good instructor with me when I took a flight in one, I actually landed it the first time around with him coaching me the whole way, I didn't bounce but it also wasn't a perfect 3 pointer either...but definitely not dangerous...I'm hooked on tailwheels now. If anything the takeoff made me more nervous than th elanding..I hate pushing that prop closer to the ground.

I should have clarified, I'll be looking for an airplane around the end of spring when I get back from my deployment, although I don't leave until January.
 
I'm hooked on tailwheels now
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Yeah, me too. The Citabria is a real kick-in-the-pants. I really want to get me a Citabria, and I figure that a Citabria and an TW RV-7 would pretty much round out my aviation experience!!

btw, can someone clarify the non-RV question: it's no good to put a cloth wing aircraft outside, right, and not in SoCal for sure (?).

MB
 
I've always heard you have to hangar a fabric aircraft. But I'd hanngar ANY aircraft I paid my hard-earned dollar for...

YMMV
 
yeah, in general, I would too, but for the time being (and for a relatively cheap, inexpensive TW time builder), the hangar rent here in Los Angeles is more than double the other expected fixed costs of the airplane (insurance and loan), which is paaaainful.

Which begs the question: what is your favorite low-and-slow all-metal non-RV TW aircraft?
 
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I am taking my primary training in a 150hp Champ, I hope its good training for an RV, but really don't know. I have never really flown anything else. I am to the point I can take it off and land it, but just have 8 hrs. One of these days I'm going to try a tri-gear just to see what it is.
 
I bought a 1949 Cessna 140A to get my tailwheel transition in and to also build up time before I flew my RV-4. I had no tailwheel time what so ever when I bought the C140A. I did horribly until about 6 hours of instruction was completed. Something just clicked at that point and I finally got the hang of it. I've got over 300 hours tailwheel at this time. I can say with out a doubt that if you can master a C140, the RV will be a piece of cake. I recommend one with an O-200 conversion and many can be had for $20K or less. The 140A models are slightly higher due to the all metal constrution from the factory (a C150 wing without the fowler flaps). I still have the Cessna. It is cheap to maintain and operate. It's fun to fly but it ain't no RV!

Jerry Isler
Cessna C140A N9641A (thousands of hrs)
RV4 N455J (155 hrs)
 
SteelMike said:
Yeah, me too. The Citabria is a real kick-in-the-pants. I really want to get me a Citabria, and I figure that a Citabria and an TW RV-7 would pretty much round out my aviation experience!!

btw, can someone clarify the non-RV question: it's no good to put a cloth wing aircraft outside, right, and not in SoCal for sure (?).

MB
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There are a couple of fabric planes tied down outside at SMO. They have covers that protect the entire plane (think car cover) that block out UV, which I understand is what does the damage to the cloth.
 
There are a couple of fabric planes tied down outside at SMO. They have covers that protect the entire plane (think car cover) that block out UV, which I understand is what does the damage to the cloth.
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No kidding? I'd like to know more about that... If I knew there were a good way to do just this, I'd be pretty serious about finding myself that Citabria...
 
Thanks for the heads-up. I had no idea. I started searching on google and it's relatively easy to find covering systems. Although they're a bit pricey, it's better than paying $500/month for a hangar, in my opinion. In my case, hangaring a 140 or Citabria or similar more than doubles the fixed cost of ownership, and that's hard to justify IMHO.
 
Well it turns out there is a local RVer right down the road selling a nice C120 I think I might be interested in...this may turn out to be a win win.
 
You're a lucky guy then... I'm having trouble getting this partnership together, even though I live in this little town of 14 million!
 
Also looking ata Cessna 170A, which due to location will easily allow me to take over the hangar it's in, gotta figure out the hangar situation with the 120, as any plane I get has to be hangared with our weather..hail etc.
 
SteelMike said:
Curious what you're paying for hangars in Cheyenne, WY?
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None are available, seems to be the common theme. It seems front range has some open, but that's an hour's drive...but ultimately closer to where I will be living after my deployment.

I might be able to secure some space in the corner of one of the larger hangars for fairly cheap, which would be ideal.
 
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