I'm not a real pilot (yet)

I've got about 800 hours or so in **** near everything made including turbo prop, retract, complex, etc but no tailwheel time. I recently bought an RV4 (which I must admit is an AWESOME machine). In the air I feel right at home. On the ground - I look like a twelve year old kid who stole the keys to daddy's truck. Yes, before you ask, I'm with a CFI.

The problem I have is this: If the CFI is in the rear, he can't see at all during flare, has no brakes and limited rudder movement. If he's in the front, I'm not really flying (and still have the above mentioned problems). I'm to the point now where if I can't figure out how to fly a tail dragger, I'm going back to a tricycle. Can anyone offer advice on how I can become proficient? One consideration is to rent the Citabria for a few hours, then move back to the RV. (in my mind the citabria is a little (no a lot) slower, higher off the ground, easier to fly from the rear, etc)

Tailwheel Training

Mike,
Get about 10 to 15 hours in the Citabria and it will make the transition to your RV4 much easier. Learn the basics in something that is a trainer and then transition to your RV4. I got my tailwheel training in a Citabria prior to purchasing my RV4. That made the tranistion to the RV4 a non event for me. In my opinion, the RV4 is easier than the Citabria to take off and land.

Jim
RV4 for sale
Super Cub replica U/C

During my T/W training I felt totally useless as a pilot when it came to performing a proper wheel landing. We would go round and round in the pattern in the school's Citabria. Sometimes I got lucky, but mostly it was bounce, bounce, go around. Until that one time when I just "got it". It is one of those aha moments, "so that's how it is done". I will never forget that.
I suggest you learn the technique in a good T/W training plane then transfer those skills to your -4. That's what worked for me!

MikeR said:

I've got about 800 hours or so in **** near everything made including turbo prop, retract, complex, etc but no tailwheel time. I recently bought an RV4 (which I must admit is an AWESOME machine). In the air I feel right at home. On the ground - I look like a twelve year old kid who stole the keys to daddy's truck. Yes, before you ask, I'm with a CFI.

The problem I have is this: If the CFI is in the rear, he can't see at all during flare, has no brakes and limited rudder movement. If he's in the front, I'm not really flying (and still have the above mentioned problems). I'm to the point now where if I can't figure out how to fly a tail dragger, I'm going back to a tricycle. Can anyone offer advice on how I can become proficient? One consideration is to rent the Citabria for a few hours, then move back to the RV. (in my mind the citabria is a little (no a lot) slower, higher off the ground, easier to fly from the rear, etc)

Click to expand...

Mike, you're probably going to get several good replies to your query, so I'll toss in an idea or two.

Yes, by all means use the Citabria to earn your tailwheel endorsement. It is a superior training aircraft without the problems you listed concerning your RV-4. Once you are proficient in the Citabria (which means you have flown it enough solo that you are comfortable with the conventional gear) then you will be skilled enough to handle the RV-4.

You didn't detail the particular problems you are having with landing the RV-4. I suspect one issue is managing pitch control in the flair. This can be quite demanding in a -4 when a full-size adult is in the back seat. The CG is often near the aft limit and pitch gets very sensitive which makes the plane a handful for someone not accustomed to the flight attitudes required for landing a taildragger. That is one reason you need to be proficient in the Citabria so you can transition quickly to the RV-4 without having to haul around the body in the back seat while you are learning how to fly a taildragger. Once you get some solo time in the RV-4 you will feel comfortable with adding a passenger. The training in the RV-4 can also be impaired if your instructor is not an experienced RV-4 pilot. Many instructors will have never faced the challenges you describe while getting a student up to speed in the -4 if they have no tandem RV time.

I understand why you feel frustrated at this point. You are finding out why us 'dragger pilots love our planes and the challenge of learning to fly them well.

While I am "legal," I am far from being a good tail dragger pilot. I did my transition in a 7 and believe it is the easiest TD I ever landed. I agree with Jim, take some Citabria time. When you are comfortable with it, the 4 should be easy. Also, reading Stick and Rudder or something specifically written about TD's may be a big help. I get the feeling some CFI's can't explain it all that well.

Bob Kelly

This brings back memories of trying to do my training in a tail dragger. Let me ask you this, are you also transitioning to the right hand for control stick? If so that will also bring in a bunch of problems. I know if I stop using the left hand and use the right, my coordination is so far off, well I hope you understand. If you are using both left hand and trying to learn, then you need to just get your coordination with the feet in line. What I did to help this is when I was driving my truck I would push on the floor with my feet when I made turns when driving down the road, sounds silly, but after a while It finally clicked for me, left turn left foot thing.

Not a real Pilot?

Hey Mike,

Glad you were able to complete your tade for the RV-4. Had you been able to stop by P-19 I could have given you some time in my -6. I think that would have been helpful. Give Mike Seager a call (503) 429-5103 and get checked out in his RV and I think the transition to your -4 would be easy.
Good luck.

Ken

Mike: You may want to take Ken up on his offer....the side by side seating in the RV-6 with the conventional gear may be an answer.

Not a real pilot

A Cessna C-120 or C-140 are also good choices. Side-by-side seating is a plus for instruction also. I got my tail dragger endorsement in a 1949 C140A. Nothing I did seemed to work until about the 6th hour and then it just clicked. I can tell you for sure that if you can handle a C120/140, the RV4 will be the easiest handling tail dragger you will fly.


Jerry Isler
Donalsonville,GA
RV4 N455J (111 hrs)
Cessna C140A N9641A

TerryWighs said:

Mike: You may want to take Ken up on his offer....the side by side seating in the RV-6 with the conventional gear may be an answer.

Click to expand...

Ditto on that comment.

I stayed current renting a Decathlon but just before my first flight a friend gave me four hours in the right side of his -6.

Because of that, I have already given one -7 pilot (who is a CFI) left seat time in my -9 before his first flight. (He said the -7 was easier to land than the -9 because it doesn't float as much.)

Tailwheel transition

Mike: Give Budd Davisson a call in Scottsdale and sign up for a few hours of takeoff and landing practice in his Pitts S2A. (Check out his website at airbum.com). Once you master the Pitts, any taildragger will be easy.
Tom
Cessna 180
Pitts S2A
RV-8 QB (FS)