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Alternative RV-10 Engine Idea….

Relentless

Relentless

Well Known Member
I have been looking for RV10 project to install our R Series 540 engine to show off its potential and ran across some info that showed the performance difference between the 235-260 lycoming 540.

So, I hijacked the chart and put some estimates of what a RV10 might perform like with one of our new R Series engines?

24fh5aa.jpg


Now I have no idea it this is true, but I am hearing that most Rv10's are a bit nose heavy. If this is the case an angle valve 540 is totally out of the question considering it is a least 50 lbs heavier. Image for a minute if you could reduce the engine weight about 48lbs but increase the hp to the low 300hp range running on unleaded fuel? This is exactly what is possible if you install R540 or convert your existing 540.

Here is my R540 that I am planning on putting on NXT:
117d45c.jpg


This engine weights only 370lbs. with complete dual Efii dual electric fuel and ignition. Since a normal io540 that Lycoming sells weights about 410lbs in the same configuration, that means you could lighten the nose or if not throw on Air Condition and extra alternator. How about Super Charger system to normalize the engine to 300hp up to 15,000 feet? Imagine the takeoff and climb performance! :cool:

2d80xtk.jpg


Titan is now accepting orders for the R540 and ACE Performance is setting up shop to convert existing 320/360/540 lycoming engines to R Series. If I can't find RV10 project to purchase without engine to prove out this engine, maybe someone out there would be willing to let me install an R540 for promotion and testing?

Just sayin'
 
I tried to give you a call this morning but the voice mail is full. If like to discuss options for my build with you asap. Check your PMs or call me at eight two eight 234-4076. Thanks! Tim
 
RV-10's only seem a bit nose heavy with full fuel and one of two people in the front seats... just like any other load capable airplane (C-182 for example).

If you desire to have the design intended utility (to carry 4 full sized adults plus baggage), moving the C.G. further aft with a lighter engine would be detrimental.

BTW, I think you have a problem with your math.... An empty weight reduction of 132 lbs (?), using an engine claimed to be 48 lbs lighter seems to defy the laws of physics.
Also you mention the R540 weight as 370 lbs compared to a factory Lyc at 410 lbs. That looks to be 40 lbs lighter (not 48). I know you said about, but 8 pounds is a big stretch of the word about (20% difference).
 
Wish I was a bit further along...

Your 540R with the EFII system is exactly what I am going to use. We talked about it at oshkosh last year. Alas, just getting ready to order the finish kit...and you probably need one that is further along...
 
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rvbuilder2002 said:
you mention the R540 weight as 370 lbs compared to a factory Lyc at 410 lbs. That looks to be 40 lbs lighter (not 48). I know you said about, but 8 pounds is a big stretch of the word about (20% difference).
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Thank you for your obvious knowledgable comments. The exercise was intended to get the conversation going, until we actually convert or install an R540 we won't have exact data.

BTW, the difference in weight is actually a min. of 48 lbs (just AX50 cylinders) and as much maybe 70 depending on accessories and configuration. The point is a more powerful engine, that cools better, and runs on unleaded 91 octane fuel. If you want the same weight then this is easily achieved by adding AC and backup alternator.
 
Or if you don't need AC and extra alternator, move the battery to the firewall and eliminate the long cable run from the tail.
 
Will the current RV 10 upper and lower cowling work without modifications to them and what is the expected pricing.
 
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I know you said "about" but it is pretty near impossible to get a 14% (175/153) speed increase out of a 17% (305/260) power increase, unless there are other things (drag reduction, etc) going on. As previously noted the weight cannot be 130 lbs lower with a 40 lb lighter engine. A 6% speed increase would be more in line with the laws of physics. Note the other numbers in the chart suggest that a 11% power increase (260/235) gives a 4% (153/147) speed increase, more in line with the usual "speed varies as the cube root of power" rule.
 
BobTurner said:
I know you said "about" but it is pretty near impossible to get a 14% (175/153) speed increase out of a 17% (305/260) power increase, unless there are other things (drag reduction, etc) going on. As previously noted the weight cannot be 130 lbs lower with a 40 lb lighter engine. A 6% speed increase would be more in line with the laws of physics. Note the other numbers in the chart suggest that a 11% power increase (260/235) gives a 4% (153/147) speed increase, more in line with the usual "speed varies as the cube root of power" rule.
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thank you for the detailed analysis, I'll update my chart and get to work proving it out….The R540 normally aspirated should be around 315 based on our testing and conversion of stock 360 at 210hp…..
 
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Kevin, thanks for the time today to chat on the phone. I really appreciate the info and advice. I look forward to seeing some numbers from RV-10's with your R series engine hung on the front!
 
R540 engine break in

Kevin,

What will be the break-in procedures for the R540? Even without wheel fairings, it might get a bit "exciting" in an RV-10 first flight scenario if there's 315 horses up front that have to be run at 75%...
 
Fuel? SFC? Did I miss it?

I still have not seen (or I missed) reports on the specific fuel consumption numbers for the AX50 heads on an 3XX engine.

That was supposed to be a big benefit of the head/cylinder packs. Better cooling, better combustion, better, lean limit, higher Cr, less detonation, and then - - better SFC. That could go a long way in paying for the new technology.
 
BillL said:
I still have not seen (or I missed) reports on the specific fuel consumption numbers for the AX50 heads on an 3XX engine.

That was supposed to be a big benefit of the head/cylinder packs. Better cooling, better combustion, better, lean limit, higher Cr, less detonation, and then - - better SFC. That could go a long way in paying for the new technology.
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Bill, you're right. The first R360 has been in test cell to start ASTM testing for weeks now but I fear since I am not there now pushing it might take bit longer. This will render numbers that we need to answer your question.
 
Tassie said:
Kevin,

What will be the break-in procedures for the R540? Even without wheel fairings, it might get a bit "exciting" in an RV-10 first flight scenario if there's 315 horses up front that have to be run at 75%...
Click to expand...

Titan breaks all engines in on test stand.
 
DanH said:
Kevin, have you ended your leadership at Titan?
Click to expand...

No. I have reduced my role there to selling for a few more months, but at the moment they are still my biggest customer for ACE Components.

I am busy setting up my own shop back in SLO to focus on 335 and overhaul conversions which Titan does not seem to be interested in.
 
Relentless said:
The first R360 has been in test cell to start ASTM testing for weeks now but I fear since I am not there now pushing it might take bit longer.
Click to expand...

Kevin, have you ended your leadership at Titan?
Click to expand...

Relentless said:
No. I have reduced my role there to selling for a few more months, but at the moment they are still my biggest customer for ACE Components. I am busy setting up my own shop back in SLO to focus on 335 and overhaul conversions which Titan does not seem to be interested in.
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Sorry, but I'm still confused. Let me see if I have this right. You are no longer president or general manager or (insert other leadership title here) of Titan Aircraft Engines? You have left to pursue an expansion of Ace, meaning a new engine overhaul shop of your own? You will continue to promote/sell Ace products via the Titan sales channel, but you'll also be selling them direct in the near future?
 
DanH said:
Sorry, but I'm still confused. Let me see if I have this right. You are no longer president or general manager or (insert other leadership title here) of Titan Aircraft Engines? You have left to pursue an expansion of Ace, meaning a new engine overhaul shop of your own? You will continue to promote/sell Ace products via the Titan sales channel, but you'll also be selling them direct in the near future?
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Correct, sir.
 
Relentless,

How much weight would the supercharger add? How much extra would that be? What do you project the fuel burn to be with and without. Thanks!
 
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Welcome to VAF!

Tim, welcome aboard the good ship VAF. :D

Good to have you here.

It looks like Kevin has not logged on since 3-10, so I suspect you will not be hearing from him on this issue unless you make direct contact outside VAF.
 
Timinfla2 said:
It's been a few months since the last post here. Any updates? Thanks!
Click to expand...

From his recent FB status it looks good for Relentless anyways. I would believe one of their ACE 540 is still an option that would work.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Relentless-Air-Racing-Team/203920056295736

"First ACE 750r 8 Cylinder Lycoming Conversion built by ACE Performance with big bore AX50 cylinder. This pushes the 400hp Lycoming to 720 to 758 cubic inches. WE expect 475hp!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APR6PSIdI-o&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTzMcYs2m3g&feature=youtu.be
 
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Saw you today in SLO

Relentless,
saw you take off in San Luis Obispo today, impressive.
Ok, back to engine talk.
 
Ernst, I was up there Saturday morning and saw your beautiful -10. WOW! The fit and finish is just superb! I really like your gust locks too. So simple....;)

regards

Marc
 
Ace Performance

Kevin, please give us all an update on what's going on with your cylinders and engines. Thanks!, Tony
 
Mike S said:
Kevin has not been here at VAF for a couple years now-------as I recall, he is now running Lancair's turboprop business.
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It's actually Evolution Aircraft now - he has sold the whole Lancair line to a father/son team in Uvalde, TX. Kevin kept only the EVO. The Lancair team did a nice briefing on their plans this morning at SnF.
 
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