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Sidestick in RV-10

Radomir

Well Known Member
It can be done :) Not sure I've seen this mentioned on the board before.. Saw this RV-10 mod in Brazil.. Another company is developing a yoke for it (they didn't have it done so I didn't get to see that)..

I only wish I could see the mechanism behind it..

P1000964.JPG
 
Looks?

It sure does look cool but without the proper arm rest, it would be horrible when hand flying for a long time...:confused:
 
Why???.........

Have you ever flown a Cirrus? My complaint it that the "monkey motion" required to translate the movement from a mechanical sidestick to the control surfaces adds a degree of friction and loss of feel. Van's control systems are beautifully simple and have great "feel" why mess with it?

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAAST Team Representative
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
Gotta admire the effort, though. I would guess turbulence makes makes keeping the ride relatively level much harder, since you don't have a leg to rest your arm on (or armrest in the Cirrus).

Experimental aviation: gotta love it.
 
I noticed there is a nice center armrest, but no photos showing the doors, so who knows if there is also an armrest on the door???

One good thing about this setup for me, it get the stick out of the way of my belly:rolleyes:
 
I wonder what that does to the control harmony? My first thought is that you'd lose a lot of leverage, particularly in the roll axis.

I know Van's looked into side sticks when they were developing the -10. For whatever reason, they went with a conventional approach.
 
It isn't a side stick....

...the side stick is on the side, not front and off center.

The Rutan EZ's have a true side stick, most cool to fly with. The pilots arm rests on the arm rest and it takes about 2 minutes to fall in love with the concept.

That stick is an "up-front stick".

Who knows, maybe its going to be the next cat's meow in aircraft sticks. :)
 
In the event the plane is untrimmed for take off or landing the -10 can be quite a hand full inwhich both hands on the control stick is needed. I would have to fly this system to see if the plane can be flown with one hand. If not I would give it a thumbs down. In an emergency situation IMHO two hands may be needed to control the -10 safely.
 
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I have to admit the first time I flew a Cirrus after all my time in an RV I figured I would hate the side stick...I didn't. I actually really started to like it for XC cruising.

It wouldn't be something I would put in our sport models (4,6,7,8,9) but I could definitely see it in a 10. Very cool for a version 1.0 and certainly on the right airframe. I love Experimental category and what it allows us to learn!

Let's not just think about why it wouldn't work. Let's think about how it could...

- Peter
 
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One of my first compliants and reseach items when I was looking at starting the 10 project was a lack of side stick. It really was a decision point for me an ultimately the other benefits of the 10 won over. Would I go through the hoops for a side stick conversion in my 10? In a hard beat. As it is, I plan to have a removable co-pilot stick for long cross countries. The WAF is pretty low on the stick approach for long trips.
 
I'll pass. I hate the side stick. I play a lot of tennis and sometimes my wrist or elbow is killing me and that side stick is a nightmare if you have any type of wrist injury. The stick is enjoyable to fly in the RV-10 or the RV-10 is enjoyable to because of the stick?
 
I have flown both recently.

I flew a Cirrus 20 (200 HP Conti) back from Daytona a while back and the side stick is OK but not nearly as comfortable as the -10.

You don't use either very much on cross-countries and the autopilot handles most of the duties anyway.

During flare and landing, the sidestick is pretty intuitive and although I prefer the stick in the RV's, for more leverage and feel, you can get used to the Cirrus' side stick pretty quickly and the floor sure is much more roomy!

My biggest objection to the Cirrus, is the spring-loaded artificial feel that I don't like at all, with springs centering the stick in both axes (axiis?) instead of air pressure.

Best,
 
My biggest objection to the Cirrus, is the spring-loaded artificial feel that I don't like at all, with springs centering the stick in both axes (axiis?) instead of air pressure.

A lot of times those springs are required for certification. The idea is that they add gradient force as the stick moves further from center and it keeps the pilot from applying too many G's to the airframe. If the controls were light and the springs weren't there, the pilot could move the stick and never feel like he's doing anything of significance. When in reality the airplane is about to take the shape of a boomerang.

When the Zenith debacle was going on there were some really good write-ups on gradient force requirements for aircraft. You might be able to find some of those still laying around. They're well worth the read and should make anyone think twice before they begin modifying a control stick location or rigging.
 
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I don't have problems with side sticks. The system in my friend's Propjet is a joy to use (Ok, maybe I just get a kick flying over 300 knots). Seriously, it is just as natural to use as a stick was when I moved from yoke to stick. But I've been inside the guts of that plane and know how that mechanism is put together and I don't see how you could easily modify the -10 for a true side stick without starting from scratch. The panel mounted sticks are, in my opinion, a solution in search of a problem; my wife has knitted in the RV-6A without being bothered by the stick and there is more room in the -10.
 
Coupla problems with that

Generally, control forces on side sticks are half what they are for center sticks because of less available muscle power, so that's one problem. A second is the lack of arm rest as was pointed out. And whereas high stick forces might be an annoyance in cruise, those stick forces could be dangerous is a gusty crosswind if you can't quickly get in full aileron. And as was pointed out, the control harmony could have been compromised, depending upon how this was implemented.
 
Interesting

I would love to see the linkages and how they connected everything. Is there anyone that has pictures or understands the mechanics of it?
Pretty innovative.

Now what I think would be cool is to have the standard sticks up front and the side sticks in both of the rear passenger seats so anyone can fly the plane. I could teach three people at once and really rake in the dough!
 
Anyone that has not flown a side stick should really reserve comment until they do. For a cross country touring machine like the RV10, it is a good fit IF it can be engineered effectively. It really opens up the cockpit for entry, exit and long duration comfort.

When Eclipse aircraft was at OSH a few years ago, I took this picture of the "clockwork" of their side stick.

ALL new manned fighter planes (F-22, F-35) include side stick. The primary benefit of the center stick is simpler mechanical engineering. In the case of these fighters, they are fly by wire so do not have to grapple with complicated mechanical control mechanisms.

EASidestick.jpg
 
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