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Use of country road for t/o and landing

diamond

Well Known Member
I have an acreage out in the middle of nowhere South Dakota that I have contemplated building a grass on strip for years. This area has alot of small ponds which vary greatly in fill depending on rainfall. Well, it so happens that this past year has been a banner year for rainfall and the dirt section line road that goes by my property is covered in several feet of water right at the end point of the property. From past experience, it will take several years before this amount of water receeds to the point where the road is passable again. When the road is dry, I would guess there might be 1 or 2 vehicles that drive down it on any given day (local farmers or hunters), so it is a rarely used road to begin with.

Which agency should be contacted to ask whether this short stretch of road could be used as an airstrip during this time when it is not passable? Based on the experience of folks here, is it common to get permission to do this under circumstances like this? I'm sure it varies widely by state and county, but has anyone here ever received such permission, and if so, how did you go about it? Thanks
 
Make sure that you don't confuse the term "landing strip" (implies lots of aircraft activity) with "legal to land". I know that you can set down on a road with no problem in some parts - but defining it as a "landing strip" may raise red flags. Make sure you know all the details befor you tip your hand.
 
I'd contact whomever "owns" the road - State, county, municipality, whatever. As long as there are no problems from them, the FAA may not care.

When I was a student pilot, we wanted to exhibit our J-3 at the State Fair Grounds in St. Paul (MN) for a Scouting gathering. We called the FAA for "permission" to and on the empty midway (giant parking lot), and they said that it was none of their business, so long as they didn't get any complaints about low flying aircraft that would have to be investigated. The city didn't care. But then again, that was close to 40 years ago.....different environment.

Paul
 
But your insurance policy...

I'd contact whomever "owns" the road - State, county, municipality, whatever. As long as there are no problems from them, the FAA may not care.
....
Paul

...might care.

Often there is a clause in the hull section on using "approved" landing strips or similar wording.

IIRC, one policy I had defined that as "marked on a current sectional".
 
Others do it in SD

I have an acreage out in the middle of nowhere South Dakota that I have contemplated building a grass on strip for years. This area has alot of small ponds which vary greatly in fill depending on rainfall. Well, it so happens that this past year has been a banner year for rainfall and the dirt section line road that goes by my property is covered in several feet of water right at the end point of the property. From past experience, it will take several years before this amount of water receeds to the point where the road is passable again. When the road is dry, I would guess there might be 1 or 2 vehicles that drive down it on any given day (local farmers or hunters), so it is a rarely used road to begin with.

Which agency should be contacted to ask whether this short stretch of road could be used as an airstrip during this time when it is not passable? Based on the experience of folks here, is it common to get permission to do this under circumstances like this? I'm sure it varies widely by state and county, but has anyone here ever received such permission, and if so, how did you go about it? Thanks

Outside of Vermillion there is a spray plane that operates off the road outside his house. I dont know if he has specific permission but he's done it "forever". I'm sure it's one of those no harm no foul things, so it would depend on how any neighbors feel about it. However, I would be nervous about landing at ~60 mph on a road I dont travel regularly. When I'm hunting some of the back roads around middle of nowhere, South Dakota make me nervous about my 4x4 suburban at 40-50, nevermind my 80,000 airplane with small wheels and higher speed. Even in a 2 week period they can go from pretty smooth to rutty and bumpy with enough moisture.
 
Some folks don't let the insurance companies run their lives Gil....it might surprise you how many are self-insured!

Paul
 
True...

Some folks don't let the insurance companies run their lives Gil....it might surprise you how many are self-insured!

Paul

...just another data point....:)

My sailplane policy had different deductibles for on-airport vs. off-airport landing.

AZ state law says that you must have permission from the land owner for any non-emergency landing location.

County and City codes can get more restrictive - it took us a year to add an official "heliport" to the middle of our existing Airpark runway.

If you are self-insured for liability, you can't land at our airpark - I'm sure both your airparks have similar rules.
 
We used country roads for almost 20 years...

...when we flew the smaller Cessna Agwagons and Pawnees, doing ag work, avoiding long ferries back to the airport....we'd land near a gas station and fill it up with "Amoco white gas" the highest octane back then.

More and more road signs and "Stop ahead" signs began making it more difficult and dangerous.

The straw that broke the came's back was a State trooper who was called in by a disgruntled ex-customer, gave me the third degree. He opend a big book and started flipping through it and finally, "Aha, you're over width!" and then "Furthermore, no tag, no brakelights..." and on and on.

I don't know of an FAA reg that prevents us from using seldom used country roads but the one that says in part...."endangering persons or property on the ground".

Now with cell phones everywhere, I'd bet that you'd have an officer on you in a heartbeat as they dial 911.

So now, it's airports only, for me,
 
In Texas, it's still legal (for now) to takeoff/land on a county road (note I didn't say state highway or such) as long as you have the county commissioners sign off on it first. We've got a couple local cropdusters that have been doing it for the last 30 years or so.
 
When I was a student pilot, we wanted to exhibit our J-3 at the State Fair Grounds in St. Paul (MN) for a Scouting gathering. We called the FAA for "permission" to and on the empty midway (giant parking lot), and they said that it was none of their business, so long as they didn't get any complaints about low flying aircraft that would have to be investigated. The city didn't care.

Cool! I've always thought getting to the state fairgrounds was a pain, but next year I'm flying in! Thanks for the tip!

:D
 
Every State will be different. In Minnesota you needed the permission of the owner. (State, county, or Township), plus the permission of the adjacent land owner. Once you have that in writing you were good indefinitely.
 
...might care.

Often there is a clause in the hull section on using "approved" landing strips or similar wording.

IIRC, one policy I had defined that as "marked on a current sectional".

My current insurance policy and my old had a "no exclusion for off airport landings" clause. Meaning I was covered, regardless of where I landed. Of course, if I wrecked the plane and they could prove I busted an FAR, then they wouldn't cover me.
 
I've got a friend who used to live in Wyoming and would takeoff and land his Mooney on the highway in front of his house , he never said anything about having any problems, so your plan may work for you.

Good Luck,

Glenn Wilkinson
 
If you ask the authorities, you should ask the question in the form of:

"Are there any laws preventing this action?"

Not "Is it OK if...."
 
Two cars a day? and those are locals? Wait till those guys drive by, then do whatever you want. ;-) If you ask someone, your forcing them to make a decision. If no one ever complains, they still won't have to render a decision. That way everyones happy. You paid for the road via taxes. Use it!

Dm
 
Check with the township or county(whoever controls the road), and the local authorities.

We live along a paved state highway, and because of a stream and pasture, our strip is about a half mile away. We often taxi, land or take off on the highway, and the sheriffs dept or FAA has no problem with it.

My Dad had an old cable brake hang up on a 7BCM champ a dozen years ago and tipped the plane in the state highway ditch. The FAA had no problem with the road landing.

We are in North Dakota, so I would guess the results would be similar.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001211X10275&key=1
 
There MAY be another option. IF the county does not maintain the road, you could approach the county commissioners to see if they would consider "abandoning" the road. There are hoops to jumb through, it is may not be easy, it may not be possible but it does work in some cases and if your are successful you will then own 33' of a 66' right of way that fronts your land. Good Luck.
 
Good language choice

If you ask the authorities, you should ask the question in the form of:

"Are there any laws preventing this action?"

Not "Is it OK if...."

I met a farmer in Texas just a week ago who lands his 172 on a county road adjacent to his property. He described his conversation with the county commissioner with similar language. His understanding was that a commissioner will never approve such activity. The question to be asked was "Do you have any objection..." His particular commissioner had no objection.
 
Neighbors

Mark (Diamond)

First thing, I'd talk with the neighbors and see what the general view of such a landing would be. Likely, they will appreciate you asking and wish you would ask them along for a ride :)

I was in a similar situation last spring. I was hunting around (on foot and by auto) for an airstrip that showed up in some aeronautical resources. However, looking at all the areas we thought the strip might be, we just weren't having any luck finding it or even evidence of past use. A few hours later, we are in the only cafe within quite a few miles and start talking to some local farmers and ranchers. We're looking at maps and chatting about where this strip might have been, when one of the guys pipes up, why don't you just use this road, this road, or this road, and on and on....etc.

So a few weeks later, a buddy and I are back, this time by air. We land on a multiple owner private lane that I had scouted by car following the cafe conversation. The road was graded gravel, better surface than many "official" airstrips. The road serves an expanse of land with a few ranches off the main highway. We saw I think 4 vehicles during our deployment, repacking, and preflighting activities. All the vehicles (except the fedex truck, tight schedule I guess) stopped to make sure we were OK and chat. Once they understood it was a landing to enjoy the local area, they thought the landing was great, and one even commented that if any of the neighbors had a problem with an airplane on the private lane, they ought to just pack up and move back to where they came from :D

After seeing folks stop to make sure we were OK, it did occur to us that it would be wise to leave a big note stuck to the inside of the window announcing things were just fine. We wrote who we were, where we were headed, things are great, and a cell phone number. No cell service here, but if someone had a concern, they could leave a message.

Based on your description of the remoteness and flooding of your South Dakota land, it doesn't sound like you'd have much traffic at all. But... for others, or say you get a motivated good samaritan with the SAT phone, I'd put the note up, and you'll avoid the search and rescue attention and if someone does have a problem with the aircraft being there, they might just have the courtesy to call you instead of calling others and complaining about your airplane and tail number.

Mark, have fun, be safe, and let us know when we should show up for the barbecue :D
 
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Thanks to all for the input. This truly is quite a remote area, so I can't imagine much trouble. I primarily wanted to make sure I wasn't violating any federal laws first of all, and it sounds like I'm OK with that. When I said that there are 1 or 2 vehicles on that road each day, I really meant it. It is a very remote road. So remote, in fact, that my biggest concern may be keeping the road in good shape. It is marked as an "unimproved road". I forgot to mention that I do not actually live at this acreage. I live in Minnesota and go there frequently to hunt. There is a one room cabin onsite. Thanks again and I love hearing your accounts of using roads like this for aviation.
 
Mark (Diamond)
one even commented that if any of the neighbors had a problem with an airplane on the private lane, they ought to just pack up and move back to where they came from :D

That does it. I'm moving to Idaho. Um, no. Wait. It's already too cold there. Maybe remind me I felt this way next April when the thaw begins.
 
farm?

What about landing in a farm field? I have there permison. I checked with insurance and they are ok with it. What about the faa?
 
What about landing in a farm field? I have there permison. I checked with insurance and they are ok with it. What about the faa?
Nowhere in the FARs does it say anything about having to land on any kind of approved runway. Think of all the Alaska folks that are landing on sand bars and all the float planes landing on lakes. I have landed on canal projects, gin yards, all kinds of roads, pastures, airport ramps and xed out runways and don't see anywhere that the FAA cares. States and private owners may care though.
 
What about landing in a farm field? I have there permison. I checked with insurance and they are ok with it. What about the faa?

The FAA doesn't care (as long as you are not endangering anyone on the ground). I've landed in 20ish different farmers' fields (unpowered paraglider XC) and never had a problem. Admittedly, if I landed a non glider then I'd want to work it out in advance with the land owner/inspect the field. :D
 
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What about landing in a farm field? I have there permison. I checked with insurance and they are ok with it. What about the faa?

I've been kicking around the idea of eventually doing just that. I've got about 2800 feet straight north and south (the most common prevailing wind) between fences and a slab just about the right size for a one or two airplane metal hangar at the south end of the "runway". I'd have to run a dozer to smooth the terrain up and maintain it after extended rains. Still, a manageable project.

What could be more cool than having one's own airstrip and hangar?

Tiki Acres
 
Planes Have the Right-of-Way

Here in Montana the law is that planes have the right-of-way on all Montana roads. You have to love that rule.

There is a spot off Hwy 294 just West of Martinsdale Montana that has a windsock, and some parking places. Hunting Parties land there and go eat at the Crazy Mountain Inn. What you do is land and then call Cheryl at the Inn for a ride into town. Mmmm, good pie. ;)

I have permission from the landowner to park on her land, but I haven't worked up the courage to land on the road yet.

Hans
 
I've landed my RV6 on county roads, private roads and others in remote rural South Dakota myself (west river) and I never thought to ask about it. For years growing up out there many farmers and other Ag Pilots have and frequently do use roads. They are so remote that I never thought to ask....just watch for a tractor or antelope (unlikely to see many cars in some of these places). My family also has a Citabria, and when I was little we used to sometimes fly to the remote country church and land in the field beside the church. People fly to auctions, check cows, check crops, go "visitin", and in general just go all over the place.

I wouldn't do it "in town" but out in the country who the heck cares! Culture is different out in the country than it is in any major metro area.

My 2 cents as usual.

Cheers,
Stein
 
How about widening any road on your property. Several mines in Nevada were ordered by the State to maintain their landing strips to a standard, they in many cases opted to close their runway and widen their access roads. Besides you may come in conflict with the Feds thru the fence rules using county roads. Especially if Federal money was used in building the roads. This could get complicated.
 
...What could be more cool than having one's own airstrip and hangar?

Speaking as someone who has a paved and lighted runway right off my driveway and a 60x70 insulated hangar right next to my garage, I can tell you that if there is something cooler, I don't know what it is. :)
 
The FAA doesn't have any legal authority over roadways.... However, I imagine operating an airplane on a public roadway would violate many DOT and local regulations. In most places, it's illegal to operate a dirt bike or GoPed on the roads and I have to imagine a police officer would not ignore an airplane. In general, powered vehicles on public roadways must meet various DOT requirements (turn signals, horn, maximum width, etc) and be properly registered (license plate).

Probably the best two approaches are:

1) Don't ask, don't tell.

2) Work with your local authorities to create a legal exemption for your airplane. They already make exemptions that allow farm equipment, construction vehicles and other non-street-legal vehicles operate on roads.
 
The FAA doesn't have any legal authority over roadways.... However, I imagine operating an airplane on a public roadway would violate many DOT and local regulations. In most places, it's illegal to operate a dirt bike or GoPed on the roads and I have to imagine a police officer would not ignore an airplane. In general, powered vehicles on public roadways must meet various DOT requirements (turn signals, horn, maximum width, etc) and be properly registered (license plate).

Probably the best two approaches are:

1) Don't ask, don't tell.

2) Work with your local authorities to create a legal exemption for your airplane. They already make exemptions that allow farm equipment, construction vehicles and other non-street-legal vehicles operate on roads.

I have a relative who received a rather nasty citation from the state and eventually got out of it (after numerous court dates and some expensive lawyer time) for landing a C-172 on a state highway (not interstate) to pick up a field hand who was driving a tractor home. It was getting dark and the tractor didn't have lights, he figured it would be better to park it and finish the next day - the local sheriff had other thoughts. Someone called in an aircraft landing on the highway, got the tail number, and the whole fiasco started from there.

On the other hand, that same relative routinely uses the county road in front of his residence as his personal runway - with the blessing (verbal, nothing on paper) of the county commissioners and neighbors.

As with so much in aviation, the answer is "It depends."
 
2) Work with your local authorities to create a legal exemption for your airplane. They already make exemptions that allow farm equipment, construction vehicles and other non-street-legal vehicles operate on roads.

Those aren't exemptions and they aren't local. Most states have provisions for farm vehicles and often all they need is the orange triangle posted on the back of the machine. i think the triangle is sometimes called a "slow moving vehicle" sign
 
Old Piper Brochures

Seems as though the Piper brochures I received from my local Piper Flight Center back in the 70's showed a photo of cherokee pulled off the side of a highway to check on something (construction project or a horse or something - I forget. Has it really been 35 years ago?). Oh, those versatile cherokees!
 
I had a uncle growing up that frequently landed on the county road adjacent to our farm. Prior to taking off he would have one of us run up the road a mile just to make sure there was no trafic. Where I grew up in western Nebraska everything is devided into sections, so all of the county roads are a square one mile by one mile by one mile. Given he had a tail wheel Citabria, and I have a RV-7A. I would one to make dang sure the road was in good shape with no wash boards.
 
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