VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

-POSTING RULES
-Advertise in here!
- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

Keep VAF Going
Donate methods

Point your
camera app here
to donate fast.

  #1  
Old 10-15-2015, 12:39 PM
BKK117 BKK117 is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Melbourne, FL
Posts: 14
Default ADS-B and Anonymity

I'm sure some of you have the same concerns that I have about the FAA having a complete and permanent record of every movement your airplane makes. It's been said that they "have no plans to use ADS-B for enforcement" but color me skeptical. If you transmit your N number continuously then the FAA and anyone else can track every movement you make or ever made for that matter.

Since my livelihood is airline flying it occurs to me that I will be risking a lot if I unwittingly run afoul of one of the thousands of regulations while I'm flying my RV-8. With ADS-B transmitting exactly who I am and what I'm doing, well, they've never had that amount of resolution and data before.

Navworx advertises a "stealth" mode on the ADS600-EXP when you squawk 1200 but I just installed a Garmin G3X system with a GDL-39R and have no idea how they would interface.
I've been back and forth with Garmin about this and they are saying their GTX 327 and a GDL 84 combination would support a anonymous mode. Not an inexpensive solution to say the least.

So, any of you smart folks out there with G3X systems have a solution?

Thanks in advance...
BK

RV-8
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-15-2015, 01:37 PM
Vern's Avatar
Vern Vern is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Peachtree City, Ga
Posts: 1,059
Default Brought to you by the same folks ....

....who promised to never use social security numbers for identification

....and that your contributions to SS would be set aside for your future use.
__________________
Vern Darley
Awarded FAA "The Wright Brothers 'Master Pilot' Award"- for 50 years safe flying

RV-6A N680V / RV-10QB N353RV
Luscombe 8E N2423K 50+years
Hatz Biplane N2423Z soon to be birthed
Falcon RV Squadron Founder
KFFC Hanger D-30
Peachtree City, Ga
770 310-7169
EAA Technical Counselor #5142
EAA Flight Advisor #486336
ATP/CFI/A&P/DAR
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-15-2015, 01:42 PM
Mel's Avatar
Mel Mel is online now
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,968
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vern View Post
....who promised to never use social security numbers for identification

....and that your contributions to SS would be set aside for your future use.
...and, "If you like your current medical insurance plan, you can keep it!"
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century. Over 1,000 certifications accomplished.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-15-2015, 02:22 PM
airguy's Avatar
airguy airguy is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Garden City, Tx
Posts: 5,355
Default

With a mode-S transponder, you would have to remove your hex code (or turn it off) for true anonymity as well as disabling ADSB-out.

Dynon Skyview makes it pretty easy to do both of those, not sure about other equipment.
__________________
Greg Niehues - SEL, IFR, Repairman Cert.
Garden City, TX VAF 2021 dues paid
N16GN flying 750 hrs and counting; IO360, SDS, WWRV200, Dynon HDX, IFD440
Built an off-plan RV9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-15-2015, 02:26 PM
dynonsupport's Avatar
dynonsupport dynonsupport is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Woodinville, WA
Posts: 1,499
Default

Greg,
Just so there isn't future confusion If you remove the ICAO (hex) code from the transponder it will not turn on (even as a Mode-C or Mode-A) and there is no way to turn off ADS-B out.
__________________
_______________________
Dynon Avionics
support@dynonavionics.com
425-402-0433
www.DynonAvionics.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-15-2015, 02:34 PM
FasGlas's Avatar
FasGlas FasGlas is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Idaho ID40
Posts: 760
Default

If this actually comes to fruition as we know it now, I'm sure it wouldn't take much to disable ADS-B out with a flick of a switch, per say. Most GA flights aren't in mandatory ADS-B zones anyway. So flick it on when needed and flick it off when you don't want to be tracked. -Disable or code change- I'm sure this will become a common practice.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-15-2015, 02:44 PM
airguy's Avatar
airguy airguy is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Garden City, Tx
Posts: 5,355
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dynonsupport View Post
Greg,
Just so there isn't future confusion If you remove the ICAO (hex) code from the transponder it will not turn on (even as a Mode-C or Mode-A) and there is no way to turn off ADS-B out.
Sure there is - I have a breaker for that!
__________________
Greg Niehues - SEL, IFR, Repairman Cert.
Garden City, TX VAF 2021 dues paid
N16GN flying 750 hrs and counting; IO360, SDS, WWRV200, Dynon HDX, IFD440
Built an off-plan RV9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-15-2015, 02:49 PM
dynonsupport's Avatar
dynonsupport dynonsupport is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Woodinville, WA
Posts: 1,499
Default

If anonymity is important to you, you must run a Mode-C transponder and a UAT.

A Mode-S transponder transmits your ICAO code with every radar reply even if it is not an ADS-B OUT transponder, and there is no allowed anonymous code or lack of transmitting this. Per the FAR, you cannot disable the transponder in flight except in "non controlled airspace" (class G) if there is one in the plane. So, if you have a Mode-S transponder, from any manufacturer, you will be transmitting an ICAO code.

If you have a UAT, you can put it in anonymous mode while your Mode-C continues to operate. That feature was designed in from day one of ADS-B and is available in many UAT units. The challenge is that for most new aircraft, and even in some retrofits, this method of compliance costs more than just a Mode-S transponder.

FAR 91.215:
Quote:
(c) Transponder-on operation. While in the airspace as specified in paragraph (b) of this section or in all controlled airspace, each person operating an aircraft equipped with an operable ATC transponder maintained in accordance with §91.413 of this part shall operate the transponder, including Mode C equipment if installed, and shall reply on the appropriate code or as assigned by ATC.
__________________
_______________________
Dynon Avionics
support@dynonavionics.com
425-402-0433
www.DynonAvionics.com

Last edited by dynonsupport : 10-15-2015 at 05:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-15-2015, 02:59 PM
alcladrv alcladrv is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Southeast
Posts: 610
Default

I too have concerns about others collecting info about you and your whereabouts without your knowledge. I'd heard that even without ADS-B, there are small and cheap Mode S receivers that can gather the same info. One company named PASSUR has setup Mode S receivers nearly collocated with ATC radar to obtain info on all planes using Mode S transponders, including those trying to block their N-numbers through the BARR program, and selling the information to FBOs and others. By knowing your departure point, destination point and aircraft type, PASSUR can predict how fuel you're likely to need upon landing, especially for turboprops and jets. They try to sell that to FBOs for marketing purposes. How's that for big brother, and that's not even the government?

Turning your transponder to standby gives you the anonymity but defeats the purpose of ADS-B. My ADS-B in only GDL-39 on my G3X gave me a heads up on overflying traffic that I was climbing into, while VFR enroute without flight following, last weekend causing me to leveloff until the other plane passed and therefore avoid a close encounter of the 1st kind.

Last edited by alcladrv : 10-15-2015 at 07:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-15-2015, 04:34 PM
Walt's Avatar
Walt Walt is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dallas/Ft Worth, TX
Posts: 5,933
Default

Correct me if I'm wrong but that looks like a GTX320 Mode A/C transponder in your panel in which case you aren't broadcasting anything other than squawk code and altitude
__________________
Walt Aronow, DFW, TX (52F)

EXP Aircraft Services LLC
Specializing in RV Condition Inspections, Maintenance, Avionics Upgrades
Dynamic Prop Balancing, Pitot-Static Altmeter/Transponder Certification
FAA Certified Repair Station, AP/IA/FCC GROL, EAA Technical Counselor
Authorized Garmin G3X Dealer/Installer
RV7A built 2004, 1900+ hrs, New Titan IO-370, Bendix Mags
Website: ExpAircraft.com, Email: walt@expaircraft.com, Cell: 972-746-5154
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:02 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.