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Finally Getting Started -- Have One Question

Stalldog

Well Known Member
A lot has happened over the past couple of months. Got my BFR out of the way so I'm current again -- still working on getting my IPC, but no hurry on that just yet. Ordered and received my 7A empennage kit, and started inventorying that today. Also, wife and I attended the SportAir Sheet Metal Basics workshop in Houston this past weekend, so I now know enough to be dangerous.

All I've got to do now is figure out what tools to order and who's to order -- easier said than done -- too many options, but I'll get something ordered this week.

It's the easy part that's giving me the most trouble. I see a lot of elaborate blogs on line where folks are documenting their build. Looks great, but to be honest, I don't want to go to all that trouble. What is the best, simplest way to document my build (including with pictures) that is sufficient but lets me spend time building my plane and not running an internet website?
 
Just take pictures...

As a minimum take digital photos throughout the build and include people in the shots! You will have a great personal record to look back on and it will be sufficient documentation for the FAA/DAR.
 
Keep your cell phone with you and snap pictures (a bunch). Separate them into subassembly folders so you can find them later. Add a text file to each folder with notes & comments.
 
Each time you leave the shop for the day, just jot down the date and what you did. That and pictures will be more than enough.
 
Sprial bound notebook okay to keep notes in, or something more elaborate required? Guess I'm not sure what the DAR will want to see the DAY he shows up. Don't want to show him a computer full of pictures and a separate notebook, or maybe that's okay, but I doubt it.

The more I think about it, maybe it would be easier to do it on the computer where I could interface the writing with the pictures, but not do it on a fancy website.
 
... Ordered and received my 7A empennage kit, and started inventorying that today. Also, wife and I attended the SportAir Sheet Metal Basics workshop in Houston this past weekend, so I now know enough to be dangerous.

All I've got to do now is figure out what tools to order and who's to order -- easier said than done -- too many options, but I'll get something ordered this week.

It's the easy part that's giving me the most trouble. I see a lot of elaborate blogs on line where folks are documenting their build. Looks great, but to be honest, I don't want to go to all that trouble. What is the best, simplest way to document my build (including with pictures) that is sufficient but lets me spend time building my plane and not running an internet website?
Wow, ANOTHER 7 started this week! I hear ya about not wanting to maintain a website. I'm afraid that would turn into a project of its own....

Each time you leave the shop for the day, just jot down the date and what you did. That and pictures will be more than enough.
That was my approach on the HRII project. I managed to keep up with the written log OK, but house moves misplaced a lot of film photos, and computer crashes took care of most of the rest. (I'm now much better at backups...)

I found the kitlog pro to work very well and it just a single purchase price, no monthly fees.
I'm a few days into the 15-day free trial on kitlog, but I'm finding the user interface a bit tedious. I'm sure I'll get used to it after a while. Hopefully I'll still have a few days on the trial to try it out on the kit after it arrives (just ordered last Friday).

Note to self: do some searches on VAF and get others' take on the options.
 
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Picasa rules.

I used to blog prolifically, but now I spend more time actually building and keep notes on dates, times and processes in a paper notebook. I take lots of photos with my phone, so it's ridiculously easy to upload the good ones into my Picasa album linked below. Captions tell the gist of it. Our DAR already has the link to my album--his wife follows my progress. She's another chick builder. :cool:

Of course if I spent as much time blogging and building as I do reading VAF, I'd have a freakin airplane AND a novel by now. :rolleyes:
 
Thanks to everyone for the great ideas.

And, Katie, I'd completely forgotten about something like Picasa to do this with -- great tip.

Now, about those tools . . . . :rolleyes:
 
I used Kitlog pro when we started building 6 years ago. For the first 4 years I kept a very good record of what we were doing. All vendors listed, costs, pictures and lots of written explanations. It was very good and was fairly easy to do and gave an excellent account of where we were and where we were going.
Sounds good, right?
Well, it WAS. Then came time to upgrade our family computer, ( I can see a few of you can see whats comming) ), well I told the computer shop guy I didnt care about most things BUT, whatever happens the kitlog must be transferred to the new computer. You know whats comming dont you?, yep, the new computer came back with everything BUT the kitlog on it. It was the ONLY thing that was lost.:eek:

So if you use this excellent program, make sure you burn it to a disc OFTEN.
We are nearly finished now, and apart from the photos we took we have no record of the build, glad we at least have the photos.:(:(:(
 
Wow, Phil, that's downright scary. So, will the pictures you still have from the first years be sufficient. I guess so if that's all you have! Thanks for the good reminder for whatever electronic process I use.
 
As I complete each step in the instruction manual, I initial it, date it, and make any comments related to that step. I haven't been as good at taking pictures as I would like. Now that I have a few friends on FB who want to see progress, I'm doing much better with the pictures. Kit Log Pro is a great app, however, sitting down and logging all I did after a day's worth of building just seems tedious compared to logging it in the assembly instructions. My $0.02.
 
I used Kitlog pro when we started building 6 years ago. For the first 4 years I kept a very good record of what we were doing. All vendors listed, costs, pictures and lots of written explanations. It was very good and was fairly easy to do and gave an excellent account of where we were and where we were going.
Sounds good, right?
Well, it WAS. Then came time to upgrade our family computer, ( I can see a few of you can see whats comming) ), well I told the computer shop guy I didnt care about most things BUT, whatever happens the kitlog must be transferred to the new computer. You know whats comming dont you?, yep, the new computer came back with everything BUT the kitlog on it. It was the ONLY thing that was lost.:eek:

So if you use this excellent program, make sure you burn it to a disc OFTEN.
We are nearly finished now, and apart from the photos we took we have no record of the build, glad we at least have the photos.:(:(:(

For Kitlog Pro, does it cost any extra to upload your project to mykitlog.com, once you've paid the $49.95 for the software? Also, if your project is uploaded, can it be recovered from them?

I've learned to keep backups... the hard way. I keep a 32G USB thumb drive in my pocket most of the time.
 
Kitlog Pro

I've been using kitlog pro for my project every day over the last year. The new update has a backup file on your computer, easy to store on a thumb drive or CD. If you post to the internet daily (feature built into kitlog), you can recover photos and text, but not cost data or other items not stored on the internet. There are no recurring costs.

Jerry Folkerts
 
to prove that you built it, you could always post here on VAF along the way with your progress and things you're learning - ask questions too! Then you can just point the DAR to your posts. Gee....maybe that's why Mel didn't even ask to see our build log when he inspected Junior! ;)

Seriously, if you're an engineer, you're going to keep meticulous records of everything, then never look at them again. But you'll do it anyways (I do). Picasa is a GREAT way to build a photo record, and that's plenty to prove that you built it. Do what makes you happy and satisfied above that.

Paul
 
YEP!

If you come to me as a complete stranger and I don't know you from Adam, I will look over you builder's log pretty carefully.

I can talk with you for 10 minutes and know if you built that airplane!
 
Simple logs/pics

I did same as Got2fly did..use your build manual,and date/ initial in the margin as you work through it. Various pictures along the way along with your dated manual will be all that is required. It took me 16 yrs to build my -4, and that manual is kind fun to reflect back on. My pictures also have my son starting at age 1.5 helping with clecos,all the way through age 17 greeting me back in from 1st flight !FAA was more than satisfied with it.Hopefully, yours will be much quicker...Now get building!
 
Kitlog Pro..

Kitlog Pro looks good, is inexpensive and very easy to use. If you aren't the kind of person to include tons of pics on your site (like me), Kitlog entries can be done and uploaded in a matter of about 60 seconds. Even with pictures, I find that it only takes me about 2-3 minutes per entry to compile everything and post it to the web. This is mainly because I have to choose which pics to use. Seriously, it is a great little piece of software and Matt Draille has done a good job of making it more stable and easy to back-up. Another option instead of CD backups is backing up directly to an external hard drive, which is what I do. Also, you could print your log as you go and store color hardcopies in a 3 ring binder if you want.
Did you know it does far more than just logging your build too. It keeps track of expenses as you go, which can be printed into a summary, seperating vendors, shipping costs etc. (helpful for tax and/or resale purposes.. Just don't look at it too often!:eek:) Also, it contains logs which help you do your flight testing when your project is ready to fly. Really, I can't say enough about it. There are plenty of people who spend time to set up great looking webpages and blogspots, but Kitlog Pro makes it super easy to do a fairly good looking site your friends and family can check out as you build. My $0.02..
 
What is the best, simplest way to document my build (including with pictures) that is sufficient but lets me spend time building my plane and not running an internet website?

Ten minutes a week gets me this: http://larrys-airplane.blogspot.com/

How? I take a couple of pictures about once a week with a basic digital camera that has an Eye-Fi memory card which automatically transfers them to my on-line google picassa album. One minute to shoot and then just set the camera down and leave for work. When I get to work, open google blogger, write a few sentences and then click to add a picture or two from my picassa album.

It did take a little to set it up but now it's just minutes a week and faster and easier for me than hand writing in a log like I did when I started.
 
As I complete each step in the instruction manual, I initial it, date it, and make any comments related to that step. I haven't been as good at taking pictures as I would like. Now that I have a few friends on FB who want to see progress, I'm doing much better with the pictures. Kit Log Pro is a great app, however, sitting down and logging all I did after a day's worth of building just seems tedious compared to logging it in the assembly instructions. My $0.02.
This is what I did as well. I would write in the margins of the build manual the date completed and my initials. If there were any specific notes I would write them down in the margins as well. I took tons of pictures as well. I did not have a DAR inspect my build. I had an FAA inspector come out. I had my build log out and a laptop setup to show the pictures covering the years of build. In the end he briefly thumbed through the build log and only looked at the pictures after I pointed out I had them on the laptop.

As Mel stated earlier, he mentioned that he could tell within the first few minutes of talking with me that I had built the airplane. After he acknowledged that fact he was not that interested in much of the logs.

Make documenting your build as simple as you can. Do whatever you feel is necessary to document things but spend your efforts on the building process more so than on the logging process.
 
Data Backup...

After very nearly losing substantial research in a program on which I'm working (not related to airplanes directly, but paying for one that does :)) I have become religious about online backups. Sure, I burn stuff onto CDs and DVDs and flash drives, but they get scratched or lost. There are a couple that you pay for (Carbonite and MozyPro) and a few that you don't (?) like Skydrive. Sharepoint works if you've got access to it. One of the lads from across the pond referred to it as "belt and braces" approach; this is that sort of thing for data security.

If the idea of data backup is your friend, then a system that will back up your data automatically is the friend that will help you dispose of bodies.
 
Thanks to everyone for the great ideas.

...

Now, about those tools . . . . :rolleyes:


Hey Jim,

Welcome to the worlds greatest addiction! Don't sweat the tools too much. Over the time I've been building, I've purchased from most all the major vendors. They're all good people, so it's hard to go wrong. Just get the basics and get started. If you're like most of us, you'll be adding tools to your collection as you go along. You don't need them all at once. If you're patient and want to save some money, I bought some of mine on eBay used, at a very good price.
 
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Wow, thanks again fellas for all the good ideas. Didn't expect that much response!

I'll do a little more prep tonight, but spend more time on getting some tools ordered. And, you're right, don't need them all right now ( although the engineer in me -- the little guy with horns sitting on my shoulder -- keeps whispering into my ear and says to get it all right now -- LOL)! Need to get some in BEFORE being off a week at Christmas. Heck, for now probably a scotchbrite pad would do!!!! :D
 
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Something I learned about buying tools...Save buying a tool you will not need right away. A lot of tool suppliers will give you free shipping if you spend a certain amount. You may need just 1 tool and not have enough to make free shipping, so that extra tool just may give you that extra boost you need. For example, I got just enough clecos for the emp kit and when I need to, I added 100 clecos to an order to get the free shipping.
Also don't rule out places like ebay and amazon for stuff. Best price I found on scotchbrite pads was amazon.
 
tools

All I've got to do now is figure out what tools to order

I ordered most of my tools for the empennage from cleaveland. I love the quality of sioux drills and "main squeeze" squeezer.

Here's some snaps I took of tools from my shop in the early build days.
hint: click the show-info button to see descriptions with the pics.
tools slideshow
 
Looks like I'm getting started with Isham. Avery, Cleaveland, Brown, etc. all look good, but I like the Isham kit and components, plus Isham's pretty close to me.

Someone hold onto my feet, I'm goin' in! :D
 
Regarding Tools...

You will get a lot of differing opinions, but here's mine:

#1 - Tools are VERY ADDICTIVE!

#2 - You can NEVER have enough tools!

In the beginning (2006) I ordered the RV Builders Tool Kit from Avery Tools, but I substituted the DRDT-2 hand dimpling tool for the C-frame dimpler and Mallet (best decision I made - much quieter and more precise IMHO). I was VERY satisfied with Avery's service/price/quality and have ordered many items from them along the way. In my opinion, I should have deleted the hand squeezer, because I NEVER USED it (reason below). I should also have deleted the 90 degree angle drill adapter, because I found a great deal on a Sioux pneumatic 90 degree drill later (check ebay), which is much more useful IMHO, but I did use all of the 90 degree drill bits. Otherwise, I used EVERY other tool provided in the kit, and most were indispensable on some part of the build or another.

Shortly after starting the project, I found a pneumatic C squeezer with a 3" yoke and adjustable set holder and quick change yoke pins on sale (don't remember where, ISHAM I think, but it was a good deal). This was the second best decision I ever made. I ended up adding a 4" no-hole yoke (indispensable) and a longeron yoke (also indispensable) IMHO. I couldn't imagine using a hand squeezer for ALL the dimples and rivets I set with the pneumatic squeezer (although I'm sure many, many builders did them all with hand squeezers - more power to them!).

I obtained very good quality dimple dies from both Avery and Cleaveland. (hints: the narrow 3/32" female die is very useful for dimpling plate nuts, and Cleaveland's "tank skin dimple dies" work very well for dimpling the fuel tank skins)

A bench top band saw has been VERY useful, as well as a bench top drill press. Mine are made by Delta, but many as good or better are available.

Always use good quality cobalt drill bits (like those available at Avery Tools, Cleaveland, Brown Tool, etc.) never use "cheap" drill bits.

I have amassed many, many, many more tools, clecos, etc. along the way, many were simply "nice to haves," but the above examples were some of my most memorable. You don't have to go as "overboard" as I have to obtain good results. I just like tools:rolleyes:

All the tool suppliers mentioned above advertise on VAF, and I would not hessitate to endorse any one of them.

Edit: Also, I highly recommend obtaining #6 and #8 plate nut drill jigs (Avery has them), expensive, but well worth it after drilling many, many plate nuts.
 
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Just started myself

I just started my 7. Got my tools from Cleaveland, very friendly and helpful people all, I recommend them highly.

I had many of the tools already from a previous biplane project, including a rivet squeezer from another company. After reading the description of the "Main Squeeze" and knowing how many rivets (even mine being a quick build) lay ahead of me, I ordered it. Very glad I did, it works MUCH better and easier than my old squeezer. If I had a slow build I would probably get a pneumatic squeezer, but I highly recommend this one if you get a hand squeezer.

Have fun!
 
Tool recommendations

Isham is a good start. There are going to be some things you will just have to get from other vendors, but I have been happy with my Isham tools and the service they provide. I would say that a pneumatic squeezer is an absolute godsend! It's bulky and awkward at first, but once you get used to it, it's a wonderful tool. I love the following tools (all from Cleaveland): Debur bit (used with low speed electric drill), tight spot dimple dies (at least a 3/32), tight spot table dimpling tool and their edge rolling tool. Other tools I would recommend: 90 deg angle drill, pneumatic cleco runner (if building RV10), and a pneumatic rivet puller (harbor freight jobber with replacement warranty). Enjoy!
 
Kit Log Pro 2.0

Everyone,

Today I downloaded Kit Log Pro 2.0 and paid the $50. I thought about writing my own application or Excel sheet but this software seems to do everything I could think of.

I did have a few problems with getting the updates to work as well as getting the help files to pop up. I sent a quick email to Kitlog support and had an answer to all of my questions in just a few hours. Two thumbs up to Matt at Kit Log Pro for the great support. Oh the web interface works like a champ as well.

Chuck
 
I had downloaded it but just couldn't get into the work of log entries, so I didn't end up using it and paying the $$$. I just decided to keep notes in my instruction manual and on the drawings, and take digital pictures now and then. From what I've read here, just use whatever works best for you and keep on building! :)
 
Everyone,

Today I downloaded Kit Log Pro 2.0 and paid the $50. I thought about writing my own application or Excel sheet but this software seems to do everything I could think of.

I did have a few problems with getting the updates to work as well as getting the help files to pop up. I sent a quick email to Kitlog support and had an answer to all of my questions in just a few hours. Two thumbs up to Matt at Kit Log Pro for the great support. Oh the web interface works like a champ as well.

Chuck

So, what's the answer to getting the updates to work?
 
Just me

but my opinion is for Kitlog, it is simple no internet site to keep up. The info is a simple microsoft database file. I just back mine up on a thumb drive, and also on another computer for those oh #### moments when your pc dies. I also upload it to their website, because its free, and it might by accident help someone.

bird
 
iPad for doc

It seems like this might be a good area for someone to develop an iPad app. The iPads have date and location stamped photos, and are easily backed up onto Apple's cloud servers.
 
Evernote

I've recently started using Evernote for keeping track of all the "stuff" that I have going on. It's an online note taking app. There is a free version that may be sufficient. You can make one of your "notebooks" public and basically that makes it a website. I don't have any experience using it for a builders log but I know that it would be a great help in keeping track of all of those little details, and if organized correctly might be a decent log. You can attach pictures, pdf files, etc to each note and they are all tagged and dated for easy retrieval.

I have no connection to Evernote other than being a satisfied user. I'll probably use it to document the next build (whatever that is).
 
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