What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

VFR Pattern Procedures?

N941WR

Legacy Member
In another thread poster commented that while in the pattern all he looked at was the airspeed and altimeter.

This got me thinking about how we fly the pattern. I’m not looking for a discussion regarding overhead breaks, 45 entries vs. straight in, etc. Everyone knows, or should know, that the FAA doesn’t consider you in the pattern until you are three miles from the runway, etc. Assume, for this discussion everyone is flying a left hand pattern.

While our planes are mostly the same, they are also very different based on engine, weight, prop, and model. This leads me to ask, how do you fly the pattern in your RV?

(Landing lights and boost pump are turned on three to five miles from the airport, once I reach TPA.)

I fly downwind such that my left wingtip traces a line along the center of the runway. Unless noted, my altitude is 1000’ AGL. I check the windsock to make sure I am not unknowingly landing with a tailwind. Call downwind. Abeam the numbers, throttle closed, I put in full flaps and trim it for my final approach speed. (55 to 60 Kts in my -9 depending on load.)

My goal is to make my designated landing spot without touching the throttle again. That landing spot can be the very end of the runway or a fixed distance marker on large runways. It doesn’t really matter but pick a spot and aim for it.

I look right for aircraft on wide base and straight out for aircraft on long final while cross checking my speed. As soon as the touchdown point slides behind my left shoulder I turn base, cross checking the airspeed and slip ball. I also look to see where my wingtip is in relation to my touchdown target, leading, lagging, high, low, etc. Call Base.

On base I start to look for cues as to my glide path. If I need to make adjustments, I use power for distance and pitch for speed. My speed should not waver from what I have elected to use. (A FP -9 will glide forever, if you pick up even a little extra speed.)

The base to final turn generates another quick glance at the airspeed and slip ball. (This is not a good time to stall!) It also provides another time to look for aircraft on final or executing a right pattern. On final I look to see if my glide path is going to take me to my intended touchdown point. I will slip it, if necessary to hit my mark, but only at 60 kts (or higher). Call turning final.

On final I determine what kind of crosswind I’m dealing with and keep in a crab until just before touchdown. My eyes will move between my touchdown target and airspeed indicator, slipping as required. If I have done everything correctly, no slipping is needed.

The touchdown is typically performed with my eyes looking way down the runway to judge my height. In a crosswind I will kick the plane straight and lower a wing, as required and land on one wheel just before touchdown. Because our planes so light, I will “plant” the mains on with a light forward push (My RV is a taildragger.) and hold the tail up until well past flying speed. (The -9, with its longer wing, is very susceptible to wind induced ballooning. That and trying to pull the tail down too quickly after a wheel landing will cause you to find yourself floating three feet off the runway waiting for the bottom to drop out.)

Once the tail is lowered, I pin the stick back and hold it that way until engine shutdown.
 
Last edited:
pattern

I fly an RV-6A, which is probably a bit different than a -9, so I'll give you my approach. First of all, I have never dumped all my flaps on downwind. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable in that configuration throughout the pattern. I usually deploy one notch, I'm not sure how many degrees that is off hand, when I get to about 100 knots, than turn base and deploy a second notch, and get it down to about 85 knots or so. When I turn final and I'm pretty sure I'm on glide path, I'll go to full flaps. I am usually at about 65 knots or so when I cross the threshold. I like to carry a little bit of margin in case of gusts. Other than that I approach the airport pretty much the same way you described.
 
....my way

Bill, I'm not sure I can be that good an analyst....so 2 ideas/observations for the rest of us.....

1. take a cockpit video of yourself..that would provide a LOT of info!
2. at our fairly busy field, no 2 circuits are ever the same. ....you are always asked to extend downwind, so 'final' becomes a long drag-in with power, unless you purposely stay high until the last mile.

that said, no reason you can't control and try to standardize your procedures.
up & down our valley, pretty much every airport has a modified circuit height, and shape, due to terrain.

...and I totally agree that it seems that crosswind gusts really pop you back in the air when you least expect it!
 
Last edited:
I flew a 9A for a few years.. power was at idle at midfield.. not abeam the numbers.. otherwise I was flying a huge 172 pattern. I still do similar in the 6A and usually keep a tight pattern, dropping full flaps at 100mph, with a constant descending turn until touchdown. This is at a non-busy aerodrome.
 
My process varies greatly based upon the situation. I use a different process when using my 2600 x 30 home strip than I do for the 14,000 x 600 here at work. If I'm at home, we fly a 500 foot pattern, and I look for 80 abeam the approach end of the runway on downwind. At this point I simultaneously close the throttle fully, dump full flaps and start turning a 180. I slow to 65-70 in the turn and hopefully roll wings level while crossing the fence, and touch down a few seconds later. If I get it right, I don't have to touch the throttle except for the flare, I'm wings level for only a few seconds before touchdown, and I make the first brick of the runway.

Obviously, this plan won?t work when following a student flying a 2 mile final in a 150, but it's my preferred pattern. Tight, quick, no BS.
 
In another thread poster commented that while in the pattern all he looked at was the airspeed and altimeter.

This got me thinking about how we fly the pattern. I’m not looking for a discussion regarding overhead breaks, 45 entries vs. straight in, etc. Everyone knows, or should know, that the FAA doesn’t consider you in the pattern until you are three miles from the runway, etc. Assume, for this discussion everyone is flying a left hand pattern.

While our planes are mostly the same, they are also very different based on engine, weight, prop, and model. This leads me to ask, how do you fly the pattern in your RV?

In Dad's C/S -6, prop and mixture stay at their cruise settings during descent and pattern entry, until the prop goes to flat pitch and the RPMs start to drop. Prop control goes full forward then--a turn or two to make sure it's at the stops, then push it the rest of the way.

Downwind at 1000 AGL, runway around the wingtip (a bit farther out if I'm rusty like I usually am these days, closer in if traffic permits and I'm not rusty), throttle for 2300 RPM. At the numbers, pre-landing check--"everything forward, boost pump on, power, speed, flaps". That's prop and mixture full in, boost pump on, power to 1700 RPM, maintain altitude till speed drops to 70kt (or 75 if heavy) plus gust correction, then half flaps and pitch down to maintain speed.

Base turn is when the numbers are about 45deg aft. Call base and roll wings-level, quick check for anyone on a long final or upwind. If making a short field landing, I'll go to full flaps here, otherwise they stay at half.

I'm usually not on base for more than a couple seconds, so roll back in for final. Wings level and call final, then put in any crosswind correction needed. I aim for what would be about 3 white on a PAPI for glideslope, sometimes a bit more for practice. I'll hold my airspeed all the way to the flare for normal landings; short field I cross the fence around 65kt.

Starting to flare, I look further down the runway and speed bleeds to about 62-65, touch on the mains and pop the stick forward to pin the airplane. Throttle to idle, keep the tail up till it wants to drop, then set it down and pin it back. Apply braking as necessary, and I'll usually drop my right hand to the mixture and pull it out a little since the engine is much happier at idle if it's leaned a bit. Once down to a fast taxi I'll reach up and pop the canopy (slider), unless it's cold out. Turn off, boost pump off, strobes off, and lean some more.
 
shadow check

I fly way to many airpalnes at way to many airports under way to many weather conditions to have only one speific set of procedures, but I do follow a checklist (if it exists) or at least a GUMP check (if there is no checklist for the airplane).

But I will share a trick I have always used (if weather and sun angle cooperate) - the "Shadow Check". As I turn base to final, I look for my shadow on the ground - and then I make sure that there are no other shadows nearby. That is an easier way of assuring that you are not about to land on top of someone (or get landed upon) than trying to pick out an airplane that might be in your blind spot.

Paul
 
I fly way to many airpalnes at way to many airports under way to many weather conditions to have only one speific set of procedures, but I do follow a checklist (if it exists) or at least a GUMP check (if there is no checklist for the airplane).

But I will share a trick I have always used (if weather and sun angle cooperate) - the "Shadow Check". As I turn base to final, I look for my shadow on the ground - and then I make sure that there are no other shadows nearby. That is an easier way of assuring that you are not about to land on top of someone (or get landed upon) than trying to pick out an airplane that might be in your blind spot.

Paul

I have never thought of that, I like it!
 
I have never thought of that, I like it!
Discovered I was a flight of two in very close formation once using this trick. Scary close. Very short final, cleared to land by the tower. I was in the -172, they were in a Cherokee. Never trust ATC 100%...
 
what's in a name???

yeah, altho most ATC units are great, it's misleading to everyone to call them......'traffic CONTROL'.
so far, only the pilot can move the little sticks 'n knobs, thereby, you can't trust the other 'traffic' (pilots) 100%! :)

...more like, 50%....and you do the other 90%!:rolleyes:

...and it sounds like, there are a LOT of variations to the 'standard' circuit....with some preferring to fly at 500' vs 1000', and a curving downwind to final...
( which we must do when RH at my field due to terrain)....so that's what still makes the circuit a place that seems to defy use of a single 'procedure'.
 
I too do a shadow check when I can. At our little field, we are surrounded by forest for the most part and even on the full blue sky sun filled days, it is almost imposible to pick out your shadow within the ground cover. (Interesting, once above the clouds over Flint, MI., I looked down at my shadow to see if there was a halo effect and I saw two shadows. Took me a moment to realize what I was seeing before panic set in. Turns out the other plane was about a thousand feet above me and climbing. Funny thing was, flight following never informed me he was there. Must not have been a conflict?)

The more I fly and get used to the 7, I find myself flying patterns more by feel and sight than by numbers and distances. Today for example, totally overcast at about 4500 agl with few broken at 2500 agl, I used up my lunch and a little more to get in about a dozen landings. Each and every one was different, some by design, and some by situation. I landed full flaps to no flaps, simmulated engine out from 3500 trying to hit the keys and still make the numbers, overhead break, and entry from just about every direction. Always a quick glance at the speeds but really, more by sight and feel, prospective and sound.

The bottom line is every one is different and I practice every one to be different. That way, no approach to an airport will ever be anything I haven't done yet. At least that's the program.

My prefered pattern is very tight and fast, never outside of glide distance to the runway. I just don't like being far from the runway and low and slow. Even instrument approaches are uncomfortability close to the ground for me! I want to be able to make the runway in the event the fan stops turning.

I know that with others in the pattern or in the area, I fly a more conventional pattern but I still try to follow my rule of staying within glide distance. Hard to do when the flight school students are doing airline patterns in their 150's!
 
Not quite just that...

In another thread poster commented that while in the pattern all he looked at was the airspeed and altimeter.

I think I resemble this quote (I was the poster!) ... we were talking about how the Asiana 777 could get low and slow and none of the 4+ pilots noticing, in the other post. Airspeed/altitude awareness would have prevented this avoidable accident.

Airspeed and altimeter are the most important to me - though, I do a bit more than that ;-) These two are the most critical to keep the airplane flying safely as I come into land. I do a full FLUMPS check, identify all the traffic called out by the tower or by the pilots themselves at uncontrolled fields, carefully check final before turning in (as well as the other spots NORDO pilots tend to enter the pattern) and watch the ball (though after Citabria training, it never seems to move from the center). Keep the airspeed in check during downwind, cross, and final.

In planes like the Citabria, all you may have is Alt, ASI, and tach, and the window as your flight instruments. Simple but effective!

On final, I keep my airspeed and and altitude in "the zone" ... ie, a stabilized approach and stay on glideslope with the help of the window and a PAPI if available.

Not getting low and slow permits me to correct if I can if high and fast, or make an easy go-around if the correction is not effective or too aggressive for the conditions. I'm always ready for a go-around, and even do it from habit even though I'm landing a bit long on a uber-long runway (we have some 15,000 foot ex-military bases out here - gawd, that's long!). If the plane's not gonna touch down where I planned it to, it's time to try it again and fix it.
 
Last edited:
I guess I am a minimalist.
Once established downwind, the only instrument I consciously glance at is the airspeed. The rest of the time my eyes are outside.
However, the poster that said we should video ourselves is probably right.
I prefer not squaring the turns but rather a full diameter sweep from the key point down to the runway. Like the last 1/2 of an overhead.

I love the shadow tip. I'll try to incorporate.
 
Pattern

My pattern is pretty much like the others including the shadow check if conditions are right, but there is one thing I pay special attention to.
An article in Flying Magazine years ago stressed the hazards with a tailwind on base. Setup: With a tailwind on base you of course will cover the distance faster before final which may cause an overshoot. If you try to force the plane on around it's easy to find yourself in a cross controlled situation low and slow? not good! If you're going to be landing with a crosswind, mother nature has provided the first piece of the puzzle for the NTSB stall spin base to final accident report. I've just always been more aware since reading the article.

Fly Safe!
 
...With a tailwind on base you of course will cover the distance faster before final which may cause an overshoot. If you try to force the plane on around it's easy to find yourself in a cross controlled situation low and slow? not good!...

Agree with your hazard assessment 100%, but would like to comment on the cause.

Overshooting final is poor planning, yes. But I think the real danger here is the fear of a steep turn while low. Yes, we've all been drilled on load factors and stall speeds with various angles of bank, but that's where the knowledge seems to end. In evidence is the fact that many pilots will place themselves in far greater peril by "ruddering" the nose around resulting in uncoordinated flight. IMHO, keeping the ball centered should be the thing we drill into pilots heads. Bank angle doesn't kill you - uncoordinated flight does.
 
...With a tailwind on base you of course will cover the distance faster before final which may cause an overshoot. If you try to force the plane on around it's easy to find yourself in a cross controlled situation low and slow? not good!...
... In evidence is the fact that many pilots will place themselves in far greater peril by "ruddering" the nose around resulting in uncoordinated flight. IMHO, keeping the ball centered should be the thing we drill into pilots heads. Bank angle doesn't kill you - uncoordinated flight does.
Which is exactly why I started this thread and included the comment regarding looking at the slip ball.

It has really surprised me how few pilots actually look at that little ball. Granted, some pilots can feel when they are in uncoordinated flight but some can't.
 
Yep, in thinking about it, I'd say that if you can't "feel" your way through then the ball is your number 1 priority, with airspeed (or AoA) number 2. Other than those two, you should be eyes out.
 
Last edited:
I like to make a few low passes from a straight-in, just to make sure no kids, dogs, or Learjets are using my runway. Then I turn on my radio and mumble something about an overhead, which I perform from the opposite direction so I can better see anybody else in the pattern. This works really well at my home airport, as everyone leaves the area when they see me ;)
 
haha, you beat me to it...

My typical pattern is to perform a split S in to downwind then pull 4G base and final turns so I can bleed off the extra 150 MPH I had from the split. I do this just inside of the student traffic so I can call dibs on the runway. :)


I like to make a few low passes from a straight-in, just to make sure no kids, dogs, or Learjets are using my runway. Then I turn on my radio and mumble something about an overhead, which I perform from the opposite direction so I can better see anybody else in the pattern. This works really well at my home airport, as everyone leaves the area when they see me ;)
 
I thought that I was the only one annoyed by that...

I have a radio in my office and I hear guys coming in "Can I get an airport advisory?" I want so bad to tell them... "It's still here".

Dan, don't forget to ask "...if anyone's in the area, please advise..." ;)
 
I like to make a few low passes from a straight-in, just to make sure no kids, dogs, or Learjets are using my runway. Then I turn on my radio and mumble something about an overhead, which I perform from the opposite direction so I can better see anybody else in the pattern. This works really well at my home airport, as everyone leaves the area when they see me ;)

Try it with the smoke turned on for all the low passes. Deliberately making the entire runway environment IMC with copious volumes of oil vapor before landing, makes it look kinda like the opening song at a rock concert. :cool: ;) :eek: :p
 
Wow, this is great information for people like me who are still waiting for their first chance to land an RV. Thanks!
 
atc

Discovered I was a flight of two in very close formation once using this trick. Scary close. Very short final, cleared to land by the tower. I was in the -172, they were in a Cherokee. Never trust ATC 100%...

I had a "sit" at Ohare before 9 eleven and used my time to take a tour of the new ohare tower ( next to the hilton ). It is an amazing facility and the controllers are the best. What amazed me was that as I watched the south controller clearing aircraft for take off, he wasn't even looking out the window. He was just moving his strips and dropping them in a tube as he handed each plane off to chicago departure. He would look at the runway about every third departure and for each landing airplane. Not a judgement just and observation. IF there is ever a time to have your eyes outside the airplane its in and near the pattern.

I am sometimes amazed at how large the traffic pattern gets at our airport.

cm
 
Dan, don't forget to ask "...if anyone's in the area, please advise..." ;)

I thought that I was the only one annoyed by that...

I have a radio in my office and I hear guys coming in "Can I get an airport advisory?" I want so bad to tell them... "It's still here".

Those are two different things.

I agree that the "other traffic please advise" is annoying and the AIM advises against it.

The Airport Advisory is asking the FBO to provide winds and runway in use so the inbound pilot can fit into existing traffic.

I'm not sure what the Please Advise question is asking for. I always want to reply, "Don't drink the coffee," or something similar.

My major pet peeve is when some announces their position without the aircraft type. Sorry but I can't read your N-number but I can tell if you are a Cessna, Piper, or whatever.
 
...My major pet peeve is when some announces their position without the aircraft type. Sorry but I can't read your N-number but I can tell if you are a Cessna, Piper, or whatever.

I announce "yellow RV" no "N" numbers!
 
haha, you beat me to it...

My typical pattern is to perform a split S in to downwind then pull 4G base and final turns so I can bleed off the extra 150 MPH I had from the split. I do this just inside of the student traffic so I can call dibs on the runway. :)

Way too complicated Sid :D
Fly straight upwind low altitude above the runway and hard pull an Immelmann to a short stable final approach and land.

Mumbling all the time per Dan :D
 
I did fly (many years ago) with a pilot who had a vertical base. DW was over the runway, base was a 1 1/2 turn spin, and he would hit runway heading at the proper altitude. He did it for decades, and it worked for him. Never tried it...

My home airport has an 800' TPA, better for the 9A and 12 that I normally fly. About 20% power abeam the numbers, slow a bit, drop half flaps and am ready for base. Turning base, I judge my altitude. If low, I turn more to make a shorter final. Full flaps on base, turn final and pull all power. I admit I often slip as I am usually a little high (I like to be able to make the runway if the fan quits.) Speeds are in the 60 kt range after turning base. Oh yes. Base should pass over the church steeple, just so you know how close in we are...

Bob
 
Why look at the altimeter? Are you flying IFR? Doesn't your angle to the ground tell you more? I guess I spent my first year flying at a field where no two approaches were the same (might have the pattern to myself, might have a King Air in trail, overtaking me by 70 kt on final) and you just get used to flying non-standard patterns, in which case your altimeter isn't much use once you are at pattern altitude.

As for the ASI, do you try and maintain the speed on downwind and base, or do you use that speed as a guide? Or as a floor? I always used the target speeds as targets and floors. 5kt fast wasn't a problem until short final, but 5 kt slow was.
On final I determine what kind of crosswind I?m dealing with and keep in a crab until just before touchdown. My eyes will move between my touchdown target and airspeed indicator, slipping as required. If I have done everything correctly, no slipping is needed.
I think of a little slipping as part of the normal approach in a slippery airplane (sorry, bad pun). I'd rather be a little high and slipping than a little low and adding power (no time and no altitude to recover if you loose the engine).

TODR
 
The FAA has never truly published anything but suggestions, in this case for a good reason. No two airports are ever truly the same. If a pilots 'system' works for them I let it stand as is… provided they meet the following criteria…

1. Maintain situational awareness (scan)
2. Can apply this 'system' to any airport they fly to
3. Maintain positive control (coordination/planned control inputs)
4. Never high…never fast.

Point 4. always brings the most contention. IMHO, the NTSB database is chock full of LOCOL (loss of control on landing), a great deal of which come back to being high, or fast…or high and fast. On the flip side…a look at the pilots who ball it up short of the runway have usually violated point number 3…

My last point, if a pilot isn't having fun doing their landings they may not be challenging themselves!

That said, have fun!
 
Procedure vs Technique and Stabilized Final Approach Considerations

Some points to ponder:

A procedure is specified in the form a regulation (i.e., must be complied with) or by the manufacturer of an aircraft (in the form of guidance provided in a pilot's handbook). Although it would likely be a good idea to adopt any component manufacturer's recommended procedures (e.g., a procedure as specified in an engine manual), it is at the discretion of the builder to do so.

A technique is a means of accomplishing a procedure. By way of example, putting the gear down is a procedure--when you put it down is a technique. Unless specified by the builder in the form of a pilot's operating manual (or checklist in lieu of); there is very little "procedure" associated with the operation of an RV-type airplane.

At a typical non-towered airport, the procedures amount to left turns (unless otherwise specified) and lower traffic has the right of way. Of course, a local procedure may apply; but as far as the regulations go, that's it. About the only other procedure is Van's recommended approach speed 1.3-1.4 Vso (where Vso = stall speed in the intended landing configuration; whatever that might be). Everything else is a technique. There are lots of techniques, including those specified in Advisory Circulars and those provided by instructors, etc. A good one helps the pilot accomplish a desired task safely and efficiently. A bad one results in not accomplishing a desired task or worse.

Without starting a debate about techniques used in accomplishing a visual pattern; one other idea worth considering is stabilized approach criteria. At some point in every pattern, the airplane should be on speed, on desired glide path, on course and configured for landing. The closer this is to the desired touchdown point, the less margin for error with a commensurate increase in pilot workload.

One technique is to be stabilized at a known point on every approach, regardless if the approach is flown from a visual pattern or straight-in. For example, one possible point is 300' AGL, 3000' from intended touchdown. 60:1 wonks will rapidly compute a 6 degree glide path. This works well to allow a power-off visual approach for most RV's as it's a bit greater than the typical RV glide angle (i.e., keeps a little energy in the bank that will either have to be spent with a slip or cashed in to deal with a headwind). Arriving at this point on speed and on runway centerline in a landing configuration allows the pilot be concerned with aim point/airspeed and runway alignment (i.e., just flying the airplane) for the remainder of the approach. This is just one example and technique may vary (e.g., nothing wrong with a 3 degree final, but that generally requires extra power if flown on speed); but the point is to have a desired hoop to fly through every time you come in to land that you are comfortable with.

Traffic, ATC, etc. may prevent you from flying the pattern you'd like, but you "own" this final "in the groove" point. If you're not stable? Be alert, a go-around might be your best option.

Fly safe,

Vac
 
Back
Top