What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

RV-10 Lance in Missouri

LCampbell

Member
Patron
Greetings everyone !

I'm now underway on my first build, of an RV-10, and excited to get rolling. After quite a bit of time researching, and attempted self-education, it was time to pull the trigger and get to work.
Nothing quite like the motivation of a big crate being delivered on Monday, and getting 16 inches of snow over the weekend, to be encouraged to keep the driveway shoveled out. :)
All arrived in great shape, and inventory went smooth.
While waiting on the box to arrive I got the shop all set. I've got a nice 20 x 20 work space, with adjacent storage with big 4 x 8 foot shelves which will work great for the large part storage.
I've a great paint room setup as well, which will work for parts priming, and I've setup a screen frame for that process as well. When setting up the paint room years back, I ran a large copper pipe to the room for paint-gun air and have a take-off in the shop for compressed air, with the noisy compressor living in the garage at the other end of the house. Also have plumbed into the paint room a separate airline for a positive pressure breathing hood making paint work really enjoyable.
I set this shop up years ago for large scale R/C jets and think it will hold the RV for quite a time before outgrowing the space. Nice thing is, by going through the paint room, I've a double door opening out of a walk out basement, into the back yard.

Anyhow, glad to join the builder ranks, and also a preemptive thanks for all the good information I've learned here so far, from being a previous lurker.

Thanks,
Lance

rv1.jpg


rv2.jpg


rv3.jpg


rv4.jpg
 
Last edited:
Welcome to VAF, and Congratulations

Lance, welcome aboard the good ship VAF:D

Congrats on jumping in with the 10------great choice.
 
Welcome, Lance. Looks like you've got an awesome workshop area, with some previous projects as well. Care to fill us in on that interesting structure back there marked Navy?
Good luck on your new project!



Doug
Seattle area
 
Thanks for the well wishes !

The Navy plane you're seeing on the shelf is one of the RC jets. Both that one and the orange one in front are 200 mph birds.
The big gray thing on the floor under them is the plug and molds for a big scratch built SR-71. Twin turbine, 170 mph top end.
I was always curious about composite work, fiberglass, mold making, etc. so the SR-71 was quite the path to learn it on. Even got the lathe and mill, and make the landing gear for it.
After being cautioned for the last couple of years about how long of a build an RV-10 is going to be, and after spending 9 years doing a scratch build SR-71 model, I'm looking very much forward to having a manual as detailed as VAN's is, and just enjoying doing step 1, 2, 3..
Not to derail, but here's a few pics, so you see, that I'm well accustomed to the madness.
And to the concept that with enough patience and persistence, even if the road has several thousand steps, you can get there, if you just keep at it.

sr1.jpg


sr2.jpg


sr3.jpg


An astute observer might recognize this last shot with the Lakeland Florida (Sun-n-Fun) tower in the background.

I got my pilot's license years ago, but let it fade into the rear view mirror, as life went in other directions. Really looking forward to the path ahead, including as others have said... many aluminum shavings... :)

Thanks,
Lance
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the well wishes !

The big gray thing on the floor under them is the plug and molds for a big scratch built SR-71?. Twin turbine, 170 mph top end.
I was always curious about composite work, fiberglass, mold making, etc. so the SR-71 was quite the path to learn it on. Even got the lathe and mill, and make the landing gear for it.


sr1.jpg


sr2.jpg


sr3.jpg




Thanks,
Lance

Were you out in Dayton NV about a year and a half ago??
 
I have my RV10 hangared in Jeff City and happy to see your post. Welcome. The RV10 is a wonderful airplane. We have a great EAA chapter at KJEF with a lot of experienced builders around central MO, some from Columbia. Looks like your building skills are superb already.

John Koonce
N78MU
 
Work is underway, and I'm having a blast!
Really impressed with how well thought out and designed all of this is. It gives encouragement and confidence in the path that lay ahead.
To the guys in Missouri, I'm looking forward to crossing paths with you all, and getting to see your birds. I'm getting to know the guys at the Jeff City EAA, and it looks like a great group.
To Mike S, neat to connect the dots through our mutual friend, and thanks for the well wishes as well.

I've one small question. One of the photos is a really close up shot of the small bend that's to be put on the trailing edge of the rudder skin. Does that amount looks about right? That seemed to be about how much I did on the small practice kit that was a 1 foot aileron section, and it seemed to turn out ok. But I'd rather not glue the trailing edge together, and have it curl up during riveting.

Thanks,
Lance

rv5.jpg


rv6.jpg


rv7.jpg


rv8.jpg


rv9.jpg


rv10.jpg
 
Last edited:
On to some bigger pieces now, as work is well underway with the horizontal stab. I'm getting most of the tail feathers up to the point of closing them up and pausing, prior to a visit from my tech counselor to double check that I?m doing things in a manner that won't put life or limb at risk.

One thing I started to notice was that the dust from deburring with the 6 inch grinder and scotch-brite wheels, wasn't staying in the immediate vicinity of the grinder like I thought it was, I was finding it 10-15 feet away and it was starting to get on everything. So, a trip to Home Depot, and for less than $40, I've got a great solution of a fan, filter, and bit of tape, to help keep the dust in check, and it seems to be doing a great job.

One other tweak, on the HS cradles, I didn't like how they wanted to crease the metal (they didn't, but looked like they wanted to), so I grabbed some 1/32 in plywood from the hobby pile, and made some quick 2 inch wide 'feet', and simply attached them with some tape, to widen the pressure/contact area, and liked the result.

Having fun and plugging away.
Lance

rv11.jpg


rv12.jpg


rv13.jpg


rv14.jpg


rv15.jpg
 
Last edited:
RV10 in Warsaw KRAW

Hello Lance,

Congrats to you! Excited to know about another 10 that will be flying in Missouri. If you ever want to look at or fly in mine I fly into KCOU regularly. Live in Sedalia but have the 10 hangared in Warsaw.

Cheers,

Jerry
 
Lance,
Just started a RV-10 in Washington (KFYG) and would love to stop in sometime as I am doing a slower build and would love to see how your doing things. I need to still keep up the skills on flying so a quick trip to Columbia would be great.
On the RC front we probably know a few of the same people as my son and I were into the hobby and he recently got his turbine waiver. PM me your number if you would like to catch up.

Barry
636-390-3744
 
SR-71 Model

Lance,

That's the coolest RC plane I've ever seen. The Blackbird happens to be my favorite plane of all time. You sir, are very up to the challenge of an RV-10. Heck, now I want you to come to Denver, to help me with my fiberglass work!
 
After a successful visit from my EAA Tech Counselor, it was time to return to the previous assemblies and get them all closed up, which included the Vertical Stab, Rudder and Horizontal Stab. This whole process can be a bit overwhelming, with a 1000 small questions, but they are getting figured out and answered one by one, and it's satisfying to check off complete sections in the build manual.

The Vertical Stab finished up pretty straight forward. The Rudder went ok but had a few minor speed bumps. Surprisingly, the tank sealant/trailing edge part wasn't one of them, as that went smooth, and I think the trailing edge came out nice and straight. Although the recommended pipe to roll the Rudder leading edge worked fair, since the rudder is tapered, being wide at the bottom and more narrow at the top, it's really not the perfect shape to do this. It gets you close, and the rest is just done by hand and enthusiasm. In the end, I think it turned out ok, without it wanting to crease at the spar. The counter weight and bending the skin around it, was a surprising challenge, mostly because when making the bend, I ended up around 1/8 of an inch too close, and the lead weight did not want to fit back into position. So, since it's not like I could flatten the skin out and try again, nor could I shave lead off the weight, something had to give. In the end, I used the rivet gun itself with a flush rivet head and worked the lead to give it a slightly tapered, and rounded edge on the sides to better fill the space, and allow me to pull both skins in. With much grunting, groaning, and gnashing of teeth, I got it to an acceptable place.

After the couple of challenges on the Rudder, closing up the Horizontal Stab was quite relaxing and enjoyable. I'd say the roughest skin rivets so far, were the inner nose ribs, mostly because the skin and the rib really didn't want to be next to each other on a few of them. Other than those few, the rest went smooth. I did learn of the trick of a simple piece of the making tape on the flush rivet set, to significantly reduce scuffing up the skins. It's surprising how long that piece of tape lasts, and how much it helps. As I said at the start, so many little things to learn, but that?s part of the fun.

-Lance

rv16.jpg


A funny remark from my EAA Tech Counselor when looking over my build log, was telling me you should have some pictures of you in there, so it show's you're the one doing the work. After a chuckle, here's the obligatory 'me' picture.


rv17.jpg


rv18.jpg


Pleased how the trailing edge came out on the Rudder.


rv19.jpg


rv20.jpg


Rivet gun + lead weight = custom fit shape.


rv21.jpg


Snug fit, but lead weight now fits in the space like a glove.


rv22.jpg


rv23.jpg
 
Last edited:
For what seems like simple objects the elevators sure do have plenty of steps to them. All done now and it went pretty well. The biggest speed bump was joining the club of the twisted elevator trim tab. I remade the left one when the first try produced a trim tab with a quarter inch of twist to it. I guess I got lucky, because the right one came out just fine. When remaking the left one, I did just about every step, with the tab weighted, clamped or taped to the glass table top trying to keep it straight. When it was done, it came out close enough to be happy with.

When it came time to rolling the leading edges, I thought that since they were straight rolls, unlike the tapered ones on the rudder, that they would go easier. I’m not sure the reason, but when it came time to roll them, I was practically doing a chin up on the pipe, trying to keep it against the table top, while my wife was trying to roll the pipe and we were both getting no-where. I thought… there has to be a better way, without all the grunting, groaning and gnashing of teeth. So, I took the pipe, and cut it to lengths that worked, and then cross drilled some ¼ inch holes through it, 45 degrees apart from each other, and a bit offset. Dressed up the holes a bit, then cut some ¼ inch spring steel rods that I had, to about one-foot lengths. Add in some clamps to hold the whole thing tight to the table top, and it made rolling the leading edges a piece of cake. Now, they could be done all by myself, nice and slow and controlled. As the pipe rolled about, just pull the top pin while still holding it in place with the second pin, and insert the one removed on the next hole that’s opened up on the pipe.

So far so good, and one more section in the ‘done’ category…. Now on to the tailcone, and still having a blast.

-Lance

rv24.jpg

Under construction


rv25.jpg

Rolling the edges with little force or effort. Once they get to about here, I'd have to remove the clamp in the center of the rolling skin as it would be in the way, and have to resort to just a clamp at both ends.


rv26.jpg

Close up of clamp holding pipe to table, and rods doing the rolling work, showing offset.


rv27.jpg

Take 2 at an elevator trim tab, keeping it to square to the tabletop for about every step.


rv28.jpg

Finished result, without the twist of the the first attempt.


rv29.jpg

Nice and straight elevator trailing edges.


rv30.jpg


rv31.jpg
 
Last edited:
When coming to a close of the tailcone section, you really have a sense that you're building an airplane, which is fun when it starts to come together. At this point, it's all done except a little of the fiberglass work, which should be done in short order. My Tech Counselor suggested that I leave the top rear skin only clecoed in place for now, to simplify access to wiring and other things for later. Since he's navigated numerous RV's and several RV-10's specifically, it sounded like good advice.

I finished my first 'modification' from the plans, which was adding a simple fairing over the rudder cable exits. I wanted a more finished look, and also wanted to maintain the flush look. It took some time, but I eventually figured out how to position a grid to the fuse side, so that I could transfer the stock cable exit slot, to my new backing plate, then be able to position it where it needed to go, after I had removed the original slot, all while maintaining my needed edge distances. Overall, I think they turned out looking great.

All the rest has gone smooth so far. I had one blasted rivet in the tailcone bottom, that I had a bear of a time setting, just due to the odd angle. I eventually got it done, with some help from my son, Daniel. Up until this point he was only doing the bucking bar, and he kept pestering, "I want to run the rivet gun", which I would repeatedly answer, "Not yet". Finally, on this rivet, I wanted to focus on the precise hold on the bar and turned him loose with the gun. He's normally always joking about, but when I handed him the rivet gun, and said this is the LAST skin rivet, he was all business and did a great job with it.

For all the nuts or bolts placed for good, I'm torquing them and marking them with torque seal. This was really a challenge for the retaining nuts on the rod end bearings. I had to mill down the thickness of one of the crow foot ends to get it in the space, but eventually got it done.

Slow build wings arrived a few weeks ago, and with some luck, will be starting on them Jan 1, after finishing up the last of the fiberglass work. As seen in the last few photos, the basement shop starts to get small very quickly.

rv32.jpg


This was how I transferred a slot to a new piece and yet have it go back in the same place, after having destroyed the original slot and removed it: First new backing plate has a slot cut to match original one, then trace the plate on the top, then lay out grid to mark end of the original slot, plus some alignment marks. Trace out top cover plate, then remove all un-needed skin material. Lastly, reline up the original reference marks.


rv33.jpg


rv34.jpg


rv35.jpg


My son Daniel learning how to man a bucking bar.


rv36.jpg


After 5 attempts we finally get 'the' rivet set (there's always going to be one, isn't there?), with Daniel happy to have finally been turned loose with the rivet gun.


rv37.jpg


It just seems wrong to put tools in the mill and cut on them.....


rv38.jpg


rv39.jpg


My dad stops by to help attach the tail feathers.


rv40.jpg


rv41.jpg
 
Last edited:
good luck on the build. My 10 should be out of Phase I later this winter and I visit Columbia via plane frequently, as my son attends Mizzou. Let me know if you would like to see the plane on one of those visits.

Larry
 
Larry, That sounds great, drop me a note when you'll be through, as I'd like to see it. So many details, and it's always good to see how others have tackled different aspects. I'm just about 15 minutes from the Columbia airport.
 
Lance, when I built my -10 I cut an "inspection" hole in the rear inspection plate of the tailcone. IIRC, it was about 1 1/2" diameter, riveted a piece of plexiglass on the inside of it. I did this so I could see the elevator control horn/pushrod during preflight.
 
I was going to let the last update stand for the end of the tailcone work but thought someone might find some use out of this addendum fiberglass update…

I will totally come clean that when it comes to aluminum metal working, I’m at the bottom of the learning curve. But when it comes to fiberglass, I’ve been working with it for ages… different cloths, e-glass, s-glass, carbon, Kevlar, different resins, additives, micro-balloons, cabosil, cotton flox, vacuum bagging, etc.

So, after spending the last year being blown away with the incredible accuracy of every prepunched, bent or formed piece of aluminum, I was surprised that the fiberglass wasn’t up to similar standards. Two photos below show how out of shape one of the worst was. I know that shipping or not storing it properly can deform it over time, but still, some of these were quite out of shape. I decided to solve it 3 ways…. First I clamped it for several days in the shape it should be. Then for the worst of it, applied gentle heat while clamped and pushed into the shape it should be. I’ve found you have to be incredibly careful here, but it can help. For example, the HS leading edge fairing pictured below, I applied 150 degrees (the most I would feel comfortable with) for about 5 minutes with a heat gun (monitoring with a temp gun), then let it cool down on its own for the next hour with the clamps still in place. After that process, it retained about 80% of it’s new, proper shape.

The last step was a divergence from the plans in a minor way. The foam blocks which are to be used only temporarily, I decided to incorporate permanently. First off, when properly shaped, they totally lock in the fairing shape they should hold. As step one, I applied the correct number of layers on the interior, at the same time the blocks were being glued in, providing a chemical bond between the two. Once the resin cured, I could go to the face, and sand the soft foam right back to the edge of the fiberglass. The foam sands like butter and stops when flush with the fiberglass. Then, so that the new face fiberglass would have a good hold, I took a very small Dremel bit, and cut a tiny amount of the foam away next to the original outside fiberglass (about ¼ inch deep by 1/8 inch wide). Basically, I was making the space that for the foothold ‘fillet’ to tie in, in what was just a but joint between the edge and the new face fiberglass I was about to add. The fillet was liberally mixed with micro-balloons so it’s weight would be kept to a minimum, and with it still wet, I laid down the face fiberglass, with an overlayment of three-quarter ounce deck cloth fiberglass, locking it all together chemically. That gives a pinhole free, very smooth surface with which to work on. I weighed the foam blocks I was leaving in, and all 3 totaled up to .70 of an ounce… add in the little extra resin that would not have been there otherwise, and you’re looking at the addition of about an ounce. But, now I could just about stand on them, and I will know they will hold their shape properly in the long run. A final point to the foam, is that it’s been sealed with resin on all sides. Should it come in contact with solvents, fuel or other things that might want to dissolve it, it has some protection. But the empennage should be fairly removed from these.

Another modification I did was that I was concerned about the mechanical strength in the long run with the rivet holes, and subsequent countersinks in the edges of the fiberglass. I’ve seen other environments that vibration over time, will slowly fail the fibers, one by one, and either enlarge the hole or propagate a crack to the narrow side. I’m sure it’s fine as is, as people have been having success for years. But for me, for the addition of what was just a couple ounces, I could cross it off the list of things to worry about. Kevlar can be a pain to work with, but there are certain applications that I find it can be useful, specifically where it might be met with physical abuse, such as the backside of a pulled rivet, vibrating. I used a Kevlar 1 inch tape, cut in the proper strip lengths, then laid them out on my glass table top, with plastic down under it. I wet them out, then squeegeed out all the excess on the nice flat surface, keeping weight down to a minimum, and then inserted the wet strips into place. Once cured, it drills fine, and when I was doing the pulled rivets, heard no fibers or other crunchy sounds, that can come from compressing fiberglass.

Last bit was just plain body work. There were thicker areas to fill, such as the front of the rudder top cap or the front of the elevator caps, as the shape was not even close. I used epoxy with a very liberal mix of 80% microballoons, and about 20% cabosil, to keep it from running, mixed to about a peanut butter consistency, making it pretty light. It’s pretty good about not developing cracks later if you have to do it thicker unlike other solutions, especially with the cabosil in there. The red ‘bondo’ I use only as a final, feather thin stage, as it is not very light. It sands easy, and when adjacent to harder materials, is great for that final little bit to get a good surface.

I was curious how much weight my extra primer / bondo added, so I weighed one of the elevator tips at the different stages. Bottom line was that it added only .08 of an ounce. The key to keeping the weight in check, is you have to spend the elbow grease and wet-sand most all of it back off. You save the weight, and you get smoother and smoother results in the process.

Take the above with a grain of salt from this new builder. Just sharing my steps, and your mileage might vary, but I thought this might be helpful for some.


rv46.jpg


"Out of the box" mismatch of leading edge fairing with elevator.


rv47.jpg


Also too wide...pushing it in and up a bit, helped solve it being too low in the center.


rv48.jpg


Kevlar reinforcement about to be wetted out here on the table, where all excess resin can be squeegeed out. The sticks visible inside, are just temporary, to help hold the proper shape when off the plane.


rv49.jpg


Face fiberglass curing on the foam being left in. Note the white around the perimiter, creating the greater grip 'foot' filet in the foam, and against the original fiberglass. All laid up at same time so chemically bonded as a unit.


rv50.jpg


Final result


rv51.jpg


Plastic protecting the metal, and resin/micro/cabosil mix correcting the shape on the front of the original rudder cap.


rv53.jpg


Although this looks like a lot of primer and filler, what's shown here, has added just a tiny fraction of an ounce, as it's been sanded feather thin.


rv54.jpg


Final results... shapes that match.


rv55.jpg


And gaps that match.


rv56.jpg
 
Last edited:
That glass work is not too bad to do, but the fitting and matching and bodywork is a pain and time consuming! My early 7 pieces did not fit as nice as yours :eek:. .

Nice summary!!
 
Thanks all, for the kind remarks. It’s time for another update…. Wings are well underway. I’m just now starting work on the fuel tanks, with all previous steps, in the books.

I’m starting to get more of a rhythm, and just plugging away. I’m doing the slow build wings, and so far, it’s not too bad and I’m not regretting the choice. So far, most has been pretty straight forward, but I will share a process I did to help on the overlap seam on the top wing skins.

I chose to do the optional step of filing the overlap, but to help make it more consistent in the effort, simply taped a ¼ inch thick balsa block to the end of the file. That way, as I worked the edge down, it could help hold the file at a consistent angle, while sliding along. Then I could just focus on how far into the panel the cuts were showing and know when to stop. I was able to get a great looking and feeling overlap, by some patience and nearly a few blisters. Doing it against the edge of a glass top on the work bench helped a bunch too.

I also chose to do the extended range tanks from Hotel Whiskey as well. Not being the fastest builder, they added for me around 3 weeks effort to get all their supporting brackets and structure cut and installed. They can be added to a finished plane but adding them while the outer leading edges were under construction made this process simpler. Initially, I was a bit unsure about their mounting. However, when I was finished with all the steps, I was pleasantly surprised that it felt like I could just about pick the wing up with the tank alone.

With starting to see the early signs of wiring in my future, back in February, I attended the AEA Aircraft wiring class for experimental aircraft taught in Kansas City. Our instructor Levi was great and had come from many years’ experience working at Garmin. The class was 3 days, and very helpful on many fronts, from design consideration, tool selection, equipment choices, and hands on wiring work. For me it helped lower my stress level about what’s to come, and I was very pleased with it.

Up next are the fuel tanks, and we’ll see if I emerge from this section covered in black goo……

rv57.jpg


Kinda looks like a wing at this stage.



rv58.jpg


Trailing edge primer work.



rv59.jpg


Simple balsa block taped to the end of the file, to slide on the plastic film.



rv60.jpg


With the angle set, now it's just a matter of bringing the filed section as far back as you'd like. It's real easy to spot this way as well, if you have one section thinner/thicker than another. 3M deburring disk in the drill followed the file work, to smooth things out.



rv61.jpg


I stopped when the very edge was seeing 10-12 thousands or so. Results turned out great.



rv62.jpg


Finished outer leading edges.



rv63.jpg


Hotel Whiskey ER tanks. Fitting done, and priming.



rv64.jpg


View in the first bay outboard of the standard fuel tanks. You see here the brackets to hold the end of the ER tank (a clamp goes around these brackets, thus, gripping the tank), the access panel for this area installed, and the reinforcing plate that will hold the fuel transfer pump on the left.



rv65.jpg



rv66.jpg


I was really impressed with the accuracy of Van's sizing of parts/skins, and the hole placements. Leading edges were almost a perfect fit right off the bat. Really pleased with how progress is turning out so far.

Thanks,
Lance
 
Last edited:
Fuel tanks done!!!

For others that have traveled this path, they can appreciate that statement… It really wasn’t as bad as it had been made out to be. The biggest thing that I had to realize part way in, was that it was simply going to take much longer than the pace that I had been going at previously. Between the parts' prep, handling it all with gloves once it had been cleaned, the goo, the mess on all the tools, then the cleanup, it added such an overhead to all the part’s assembly. Pressure tests came back with no issues. By getting 2 pressure test kits, it let me have enough fittings to plug the extra holes I had in the tanks…. Which were the fill port on the outboard rib for the Hotel Whiskey ER tanks to fill in through, and the extra high pressure return port I had put on the front of the inboard, middle rib.

Although the Pro-Seal had an odor too it, it wasn’t too bad. However, the Acetone fumes had to be respected. Whenever it was out in any quantity, I had the large fan in the paint room pulling a strong draft through the shop. That was great for our health, but bad for my standing within the family… especially, when I’m blasting out all the house AC with it, on a hot July evening. After a few evenings of near mutiny within the family, a new schedule was figured out, that Saturday and Sunday mornings were good times for tank work during the hot summer days, so we could close the house back up around noon, and try to recover the AC. Kudo’s and thanks to my wife, Tracy, for helping on many of these weekends, to help get the tank work pushed over the finish line.


rv67.jpg


All parts were cleaned with Acetone, then when it came time to the goo prep, I cut the scotchbrite pads into 1 inch strips, to be able to scrub and scuff where the goo would go. I found this way faster and simpler than doing a grid of tape everywhere on the inside. Cleanup with Acetone wasn’t to bad either, for what did get where it didn’t belong. Right before goo’ing a few parts, I’d do a quick rescuff, and Acetone cleaning, to remove any recent aluminum oxide, until I saw nothing on the Acetone soaked paper towels.


rv68.jpg


End ribs all prepped, including the extra fittings.


rv69.jpg


Any prior pondering about wet-setting rivets or not, went out the window, when you learn that goo goes everywhere, including the rivets, by the time you pull the cleco’s out. I did a very light rub with an Acetone soaked paper towel after the work, and it cleaned up easy.


rv70.jpg


rv71.jpg


rv72.jpg


rv73.jpg


Despite my best efforts, of trying to convince my youngest son, Daniel, about the fun and enjoyment of cleaning Pro-Seal from clecos, he remained unconvinced.


rv74.jpg


All done, now they sit for a month.


rv75.jpg


Pressure tests went well…. Except for a key moment… here I am, looking at each rivet, up close with soapy, sudsy water streaming down them… rivet by rivet…. one by one… when BANG!!!.... about 9 inches from my ear the balloon popped…. Scared the #!$@%###! out of me!!! I think I jumped a foot.


rv76.jpg


I pre-primed some of the parts before tank assembly such as the tank z’s, and the back of the rear baffle. However when they passed the pressure test, I did a light scrubbing trying to not disturb the Pro-Seal, and shot another go of primer, this time covering the ends and the rear flanges, that had not see any primer before, lest it might have interfered with the Pro-Seal’s adhesion.
 
Like many others, I ran into several rivets that sat just a little proud on the sides of the rear baffle… the ones you countersink for. Of those that were high, most were in the 3-5 thousandth’s range.

I decided to give rivet shaving a try. Having a decent amount of experience of running my small mill, I saw the rivet shaving bit as simply a 2 flute end mill cutter.

I was very slow in creeping up on the correct setting for the micro stop cage, but once I got the right setting, it was a piece of cake to touch up all those rivets that needed it. You do need to keep a firm grip on the bottom of the cage, for the cutter to do its work but it’s not bad at all. I did use pliers to tighten up the retaining ring, just so that it could not vibrate loose and accidentally cut deeper and my cordless drill on high speed worked just fine.

I measured no appreciable difference in a reduced diameter in the head of the rivet, and the results were well worth the price of the cutting bit, I thought. I found for the limited use I needed, the micro stop cage worked just fine, and I didn’t need the expense of a dedicated tool for this step.
Up close pic’s of rivet’s are sometimes hard to see what you’re trying to show, but I’ll give these a try, with some before and after rivets.

Glad to be done with the tanks, and now moving onto the bottom wing skins.
Thanks,
Lance

rv77.jpg



rv78.jpg



rv79.jpg
 
Time to update the build thread again, as it’s been far too long. As of 3 weeks ago, the wings are done. Like all the way done, including all the hard stuff, like the fiberglass wing tips, conduits, lighting, lenses, etc. All but final body work on the wing tips, prior to painting.

We all approach big projects differently…personally, while it’s tempting, I can’t stand to leave the ‘hard’ stuff to the end. It just makes for a huge hill to climb late in the project, so, rather, I will make my way through all the steps as they come along. That way, when I look at finished wings, they are well….. finished, and that gives me encouragement for the subsequent steps.

This update will focus on some of the special things regarding the completion of the wings. Not really pictured, but completed are the primary wings themselves, including closing up the bottom wing skins, and building the ailerons and flaps. Also complete are the aileron pushrods and torque tubes, along with also installing the wing wiring conduits, aileron trim servo, and AP servo mount. I installed the Garmin heated/regulated AOA pitot tube and have the hole cut and ready to be grounded for the temp probe too.

Enough rambling, on to the pictures…


rv80.jpg
rv81.jpg


I really enjoyed the diversion of the FLYLED’s “The Works” kit. Shown in the above pics are the installed results of about a week’s work. From building the boards, to fitting them, it was all very enjoyable, with good instructions.



rv82.jpg


Next up was doing the wing tip lenses. I ended up using the stock ones that come with the kit. They fit pretty well and did not take too long to trim to shape.



rv83.jpg


I chose to use the piano hinge method for wing tip attachment. While this probably added 2 weeks’ worth of extra time, I think the results when finished will look nice, and be very serviceable. You will also notice some green tape on the bottom of the tips. This tape was a line that I felt that the wing tip had an excessive amount of ‘give’ to it. With only a few ounces of pressure, I could get the tip to ‘oil can’ inward. I did not care for this movement and used the tape as a guild on where on the inside of the tip to address it.



rv84.jpg


I used lightweight closed cell blue foam and carved and sanded a feathered piece to be glassed on the inside of this area. The foam when I had it shaped weighed about a quarter ounce, and when using just a single layer of 4-ounce S Glass (fiberglass), it completely solved all movement in this area, and only added around 2 ounces each.



rv85.jpg


As you can see here, tolerance is a bit close with the Hotel Whiskey ER tank, but workable.



rv86.jpg


Bob Archer VOR mounted in left wing tip. I used a clump of resin mixed with cabosil and microballons on the sharp tip/corner to keep it from vibrating against the wing tip fiberglass.



rv87.jpg


Completed wings with the Hotel Whiskey ER tanks in place.
 
rv88.jpg


I spent quite a bit of time, getting an outer door setup that I liked for the outer fuel doors in the fiberglass. I wanted a clean, no fastener look when I was finished. What you see here, is several steps in. First, I add 3 layers of 5.7 ounce carbon fiber to the entire area (about 10 inches by 10 inches). Then I almost cut out the outer door but left a few ‘tick’ marks holding it in place. I then covered the door in clear packing tape, with some wax, then filled in the crack with clay, and then laid 3 more layers of carbon across it. Make the few final cuts in the door, then pop it out, then trim out the center for a nice perfect fit flange.




rv89.jpg


Because the clearance for a standard offset oil door hinge was too small to use, I had to make my own hinge. For the goose-neck part, I laid my own up with 3 layers of carbon over a tube, over the edge of the worktable. I covered the entire area with clear packing tape and waxed it.




rv90.jpg


Once the goose-neck was done, I used pieces of piano hinge, and a spring, that I could torque just right, so that when released, it pops the door open with just the right amount of force.




rv91.jpg


For holding the door closed, I machined down a pin, and a bracket on the mill and lathe, and along with a couple pieces of brass tubing secured on both sides with carbon and resin, it holds the door shut nicely. Given the bracket will be under forces trying to pry it from the door, not only was it glued in place, but also riveted with 2 rivets, that will later get body work to hide them from the outside.




rv92.jpg


Once the pin is retracted, the door pops open. I saw another update on the web about doing something like this, but they had the pin coming in from the end of the door, with the pin seating towards the hinge. I liked this direction better, as it has capture on both sides of the mechanism that is affixed to the door.




rv93.jpg


For the actuation, I used a hobby level nyrod, to extend back to the trailing edge. While I would never use this mechanism on anything mission critical, for this purpose it is very flexible, takes resin well for securing, and is easily serviceable. The resin was mixed very heavy with microballons to add minimal weight, which is the white part you see. Then a single glass layer over the top of the tube and all.




rv94.jpg


To trigger the doors, I wanted something that I could not find anywhere. A simple spring-loaded latch, that I could connect the clevis to the other end and have around ¾ inch travel. So, I made my own. I made the inner piece out of Delrin, with a round section to hold the spring, and the remainder rectangular, so it would hold position in the bracket. A single bolt going through it below, not only holds it in place, but limits its travel. The spring gives it from 6 ounces to 18 ounces of pressure on the button and subsequently the pin to make sure the door stays shut.




rv95.jpg


So now where to put this sliding button? I head scratched a long time on that one. I decided to put it on the rib that is at the trailing edge of the tip itself. There is this perfect little area in the aileron that is recessed here to let you put a finger down in there and release it easily. The flat screws are retained by nylon insert nuts on the back side, so should they ever come loose, they should not be able to vibrate out to interfere with aileron operation. Aside from that, they are too short to reach it even if they did come out. While on that topic, you see on the left side two other holes. This is where I secure the aft end of the piano hinges. The ends of the wire have a loop bent in them and are secured by 2 socket head 8-32 screws that are cross drilled and will be safety wired, along with being tightened into the nutplates.




rv96.jpg


All finished!! Initially I expected the wings to take a year. If I had stayed to the path, and not done any extras, I would have been very close to that. In the end they took 18 months, but that included all the effort for the Hotel Whiskey ER tanks, the FLYLED’s lighting, the Garmin AOA install, Aileron trim servo, AP servo mount, and putting in nice conduits in the wings.

Thanks for following along,
Lance
 
good work

Lance, very nice work there.

Your wingtip door setup is likely to be stolen ---- better get a patent on it quick :D
 
very nice. at Oshkosh, I bumped into a group from Oklahoma City that flew their RV10 direct to Oshkosh, 663 nm. they had 75 gallons on board. I was impressed.
 
Last edited:
Flap Motor Mouting

Nothing like taking a one-hour job, and turning into 3 days, just for fun….
I decided to go with the PH Aviation flap motor as an upgrade. Ironically, I just learned yesterday, Van’s mentioned something about an upgraded flap motor at Oshkosh last month. Oh well, onward and upward. : )

The instructions from PH Aviation give good guidance on how to modify the existing mount from Van’s to accommodate the new flap motor. They look like the modifications would work just fine, using angle stock, and several bolts, but look they are tailored for a post construction installation, when you have to work with what is already riveted into the plane. Given I’m in the middle of new construction and have a manual mill sitting in the corner of the shop, I took a stab at solving the problem, in a more direct manner.

The new motor mounts about 1.5 inches further away from the flap horn, a bit higher, and is wider than the stock motor too. Plus, it’s output arm is centered, and I think the stock motor is offset.

Making the new mounting lugs was one thing. Another was how to deal with adding holes to move over the bolted side, in the stock F-1066A plate, without compromising the load carrying ability. To accommodate that, I essentially sandwiched the plate, with longer pieces above and below.
Also, since the mounting ears for the flap motor now have a longer moment with more leverage on the bracket, I machined in some ridges to stiffen them up as well. That should equal the strength gained from the angle stock approach from the original instructions.

The flap motor itself looks to be a quality unit, and I think the custom mounts turned out pretty good.


flap1.jpg


Original mounting ear, and my part, rouging out the larger mount out of 2024



flap2.jpg

Getting the ridge cut in after cutting in the foot.

flap3.jpg


Finished right bracket, rivet side



flap4.jpg


Finished left bracket, bolt side.



flap5.jpg


This is the replacement lower F-1066C, that I made to match the original one, but with a longer foot for the bottom, to span the unused holes, and carry through.



flap6.jpg


Bottom plate, when matched up with F-1066A



flap7.jpg


Top reinforcing plate as the other part of the ‘sandwich’. I had to change the outer rivets to flush, to accommodate the new bolt on bracket, to sit flush. But considering the countersink was in my extra plate on top, and not in the original, didn’t figure it would degrade any strength. Being a bit paranoid, I even looked up the federal standards of strength of a countersunk rivet vs. a standard, and while it’s a bit different, still looks to be well within needed strength. Lastly, I know my edge distance is close on the one nutplate rivet, but was limited in the space, and probably would have figured a different solution if were not a rivet holding a nutplate.



flap8.jpg


Once I was doing final fitting, I realized I needed a little relief in the ridge of the bolt on side, so the socket would have clearance. Yes, I’ll turn down some spacers for the main AN 5 motor mounting bolt, on the lathe, but have not done that part yet.




flap9.jpg


flap10.jpg


It is sitting true in here, my phone was just sitting a little offset, when I took this picture, so there is a little parallax in the image. The bolt side bracket did take into account the 62 thou. difference in the height on the two brackets, from the extra plate on that side. Once again, there will be proper spacers, bolt and nut eventually in here, but this was just seeing how everything was fitting.

Thanks,
Lance
 
Last edited:
flap3.jpg


Finished right bracket, rivet side



flap4.jpg


Finished left bracket, bolt side.
Very nice machine work but . . . A poor design detail.

I don’t like the stiffener on the bracket ending before the lower attach flange. Stiffener not doing anything for you except tell you were to look for the crack. It will be right at end of stiffener in the radius of the flange.
 
The original bracket was .062, and I machined the thickness of both the foot and the upright leg to .100

Do you think the ridge is unnecessary, and would be best to be removed?

I thought about bringing the ridge into the foot, but considered it would impede with bucking the rivets, or with the bolt operations, given the limited space, and was just considering strengthening the now longer arms.

Lance
 
...and

"...Very nice machine work but . . . A poor design detail.

I don’t like the stiffener on the bracket ending before the lower attach flange. Stiffener not doing anything for you except tell you were to look for the crack. It will be right at end of stiffener in the radius of the flange..."

While I might agree that the stiffener could have gone all the way, this bracket has no more chance to crack than the original...when you machine your own brackets, please post pictures.

To the OP, very nice work! You will love that actuator!
 
Absolutely beautiful workmanship Lance… there's a few builder threads here on VAF that show aircraft building as art. :)
 
rv90.jpg


Once the goose-neck was done, I used pieces of piano hinge, and a spring, that I could torque just right, so that when released, it pops the door open with just the right amount of force.

Just a word of caution. Aluminum rivets are not recommended in carbon fiber. These two are a very poor galvanic combination, especially where the rivet is a much smaller anode, the aluminum rivets will corrode relatively quickly. Seeing how they are holding the door on, it could become problematic.

On the aircraft I work with we usually specify the use of titanium rivets, Hi-Loks, or Composi-Loks to join carbon fiber. The same OEMs usually use a layer of fiberglass or tedlar as the IML layer of the composite to keep the carbon fiber away from aluminum structure and still isn't always foolproof and we still find corrosion on the aluminum. I know the titanium fasteners may be a bit impractical (pricey and hard to find) for this application, some A286 stainless steel fasteners installed with sealant/primer would be better than Al rivets and a second choice to Ti fasteners. Attaching that hinge with some HL40-4-2 or HL40-4-3 Hi-Loks (A286) with HL97DU4 Collars (A286) would be better, although still a bit pricey (we don't worry about that at work). You could also use some Cherry blind rivets that have a CRES sleeve (installed wet) and that would be better.

BTW, that fuel door and mechanism is slick! Great work!

Long time VAF lurker, saw this and figured I should register and chip in my 2 cents. I see a lot of corrosion on aircraft we have to repair at work, it can be a nasty thing.
 
Jjack124,
Thanks for the input. I had wondered that. I've learned the piano hinge has something it's treated with, such that it that causes it to not need to be treated with primer.

But that doesn't address the rivets... I did set them wet, with resin, top and bottom (which you can see around the rivets), and glued the door to the hinge piece as well along it's length.

I'll make it an item I keep an eye on, thanks for the advice.

Lance
 
Ok, so this airplane building thing might just be do-able after all.

If you’re not to this point yet, and you are worrying like I was about the longeron bending, or the bending of the side skins…. don’t.

Some patience with the vice, and a good dead blow hammer with a soft face on the longerons, and following the instructions in the manual for the side skins, have all turned out with great results.

For the longerons, not only is the template great, I kept going into the glass kitchen table, to check for twist or other weirdness in it being flat.
When bending the side skins, the plans are spot on, for the process. What they don’t say is it takes a considerable amount of force to get it done. I had to draft a teenage son, to sit on the table, to keep me from pushing it about.

Last pic is current state of fuselage progress. I did some shop rearrangement to be able to still work on the fuse, and also have both shop tables available. The work ladder/platforms continue to be great, as I can adjust the height the fuse is at, to work on. And yes…. I spent way too much time attempting to polish the firewall…. Eventually, I realized I needed to keep building the airplane. 😊

rv97.jpg


rv98.jpg


rv99.jpg


rv100.jpg



Lance
 
I am very suspicious at a shop this clean, maybe some people, like DAR, will doubt an airplane was built in this place. ;)

The extend that the firewall was polished when this photo was taken make you go hmmm.
 
I am very suspicious at a shop this clean, maybe some people, like DAR, will doubt an airplane was built in this place. ;)

The extend that the firewall was polished when this photo was taken make you go hmmm.

You have to know Lance lol:D Funny seeing rc clevis and pushrod make it in the real plane. I love the idea of the hing pin wingtips, is that how the stock attach to the wing?
 
Last edited:
Back
Top