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Aerobatic Question

wnplt

Well Known Member
Looking for insight on my RV7. I purchased from a builder a couple years ago and was reviewing ops limitation and logbook but could not find where builder logged aerobatic maneuvers performed. I asked him and he said he did demonstrate basic maneuvers and thought they were logged. I could not find them. When I went to the local FSDO for new N number change and updated paperwork he said I would just need to demonstrate the maneuvers and log those in the logbook. I asked if it needed to go back into phase 1 for that and he said no. Anybody know what I should do?
 
You didn't mention what your ops limitation says. I don't know much about this, but I have done some reading here, and my understanding is that if the airplane is authorized for aerobatics, it should be indicated in the ops limitations.
 
The FSDO will likely leave out the aerobatic language in the ops limits if you don't request them. THey typically state that aero is approved AFTER you have performed a few things and document them in the log book. Those limits do not state that re entry to phase I is required and my FAA guy stated the same. It was my understanding that those things could be done at anytime and by anyone, as long as they are logged.
Larry
 
Just as a reference

Here is what my operating limitations say...


?If aerobatic maneuvers are intended to be performed during Phase II, those maneuvers must be satisfactorily accomplished and recorded in the maintenance records. Aerobatic flight testing is not complete until sufficient flight experience has been gained to establish that the aircraft is satisfactorily controllable during the aerobatic maneuver tested. Upon completion of flight testing, the owner/operator must make the following or similar entry in the maintenance records: ?I certify that the following aerobatic maneuvers have been test flown, and that the aircraft is controllable throughout the maneuvers? normal range of speeds. The flight-tested aerobatic maneuvers and speeds are _________ at __________, __________ at __________, and _________ at _________.? During Phase II operations, aerobatic maneuvers that were not documented per this limitation may not be performed. The owner may place the aircraft back into phase I for the sole purpose of adding addition aerobatic maneuvers to the aircraft authorized maneuvers.?
 
It all depends on what you operating limitations say. Wording has changed over the years. Older Op Lims were different between aerobatic and non-aerobatic aircraft.

Read your op lims closely. If they say "Aerobatics are prohibited" you will need to have them amended by the FSDO or a DAR.

Later wording includes aerobatic flight testing as stated above.

The FSDO that said that you can do aerobatic flight testing in Phase II is Wrong.
 
Looks like you have the same type of incompetent inspectors as we have here in the DFW FSDO area. I had an inspector tell me the same thing about not needing to go into Phase 1 and I could do acrobatic flight because the Van's website says my RV-8 is acrobatic !!! I could write a book about the North Dallas FSDO and it would be funny, if it weren't so sad.
 
If you didn't do the aerobatics in Phase I what do you have to do to subsequently place it back into Phase I for the aerobatics?
 
If you didn't do the aerobatics in Phase I what do you have to do to subsequently place it back into Phase I for the aerobatics?

A simple logbook entry stating that you are putting the aircraft into phase I and for what purpose. Your op lims should also state that anytime you go back into phase I, it must be for a minimum of 5 hrs.
 
If you didn't do the aerobatics in Phase I what do you have to do to subsequently place it back into Phase I for the aerobatics?

Check the EXACT wording in your Ops Limits. Mine just says you can put it back in Phase 1 to do the maneuvers then you just write the statement at the beginning of the section in your logbook. No minimum time in my Ops Limits. See this paragraph:
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Now if you make a major alteration then it says 5 hours in Phase 1. It's the only mention of 5 hours in my entire Ops Limits so please check yours because I know mine were screwed up by the FSDO a few times until we got these, and these might STILL be screwed up, but it's what I have in writing so I can't get in trouble if I follow them:
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Okay my Op Limits say this with nothing recorded in the blanks...

16. This aircraft may conduct aerobatic flight in accordance with the provisions of 14 CFR 91.303. Aerobatics must not be attempted until sufficient flight experience has been gained to establish that the aircraft is satisfactory controllable and in compliance with 14 CFR 91.319(b). The aircraft may only conduct those aerobatic flight maneuvers that have been satisfactory accomplished during flight testing and recorded in the aircraft logbook and maintenance records by use of the following, or a similarly worded statement: "I certify that the following aerobatic maneuvers have been test flown and that the aircraft is controllable throughout the maneuvers' normal range of speeds, and is safe for operation. The flight-tested aerobatic maneuvers are__________,__________,__________ and ________________________
 
How specific do you have to get with the naming of the aerobatic maneuvers?

Say there's 5 types of rolls.

Do you list them as 'roll.1 roll.2 roll.3 roll.4 and roll.5' or do you just say 'rolls'
 
You have the old ones like I used to have. I went in for a simple N change (like people do every day for all kinds of Standard and Experimental aircraft) and my limitations got all screwed up. They removed some things then added others. They even grounded my airplane from flying at night !

Anyway if that's all it says in your limitations then I'd do like Mel told you and just make the logbook entry entering your airplane into Phase 1 for acrobatic maneuvers. If it were me then once I did the maneuvers I'd make another entry with the wording you show there on your limitations. Mel can confirm this.
 
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How specific do you have to get with the naming of the aerobatic maneuvers?

Say there's 5 types of rolls.

Do you list them as 'roll.1 roll.2 roll.3 roll.4 and roll.5' or do you just say 'rolls'

Are each one of those rolls done at different speeds? If so then the wording in my Ops Limits suggest they each have to be written individually. If they all are done at the same speeds then Van's instructions say ROLLS at xxxmph and I suppose that would be enough.
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