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I-Pad/Foreflight Info - Need help in purchases

E. D. Eliot

Well Known Member
Back to flying soon. Hope that my question isn't too basic.

I have held off on purchasing an ( - ) pad device until I was set up with my CFI. Met him today and will resume training soon.

My CFI wants me to purchase an I-Pad from Apple and to use Foreflight Professional - I am locked into his suggestions. I will be flying in a Sling two place and the panel is all Garmin. After getting my PPC, I will be flying my soon to be completed RV-12 with Dynon Avionics.

I have read all that I can find in the archives here and most of the info is a year or three old. I have a few days until I will purchase my Apple I-Pad.

So, please advise me as to which Apple I-Pad to purchase. Thanks in advance.
 
Decide big or small, then the best you can afford

IMHO you need to test fly the larger (like Air 2) and smaller screen model (like a mini) to decide which size you like. Personally I fly the Air2 because I want the bigger screen. Some like the mini because it?s easier to mount.

Then buy the most modern, most memory model you can afford. You can operate FF with a WiFi only model. I use WiFi only, no regret there. You buy the most/best because ForeFlight and most software continues to be redesigned, and the upgrades always want more hardware performance/resources... In a few years whatever you buy may be challenged to run ForeFlight and other programs at an acceptable speed.

Carl
..
 
Is this what modern instruction has come to? You must have an iPad and Foreflight as a student pilot? I?d suggest you get your certificate, then decide for yourself what gizzmos you?d like.
For the record, I have an iPad mini running WingX. But choose what you want.
 
Agree with Bob

Foreflight is strong, but FlyQ is way easier for flying in VFR environment. WingX is also a strong product.

As Bob says, do some flying then get trial subscriptions and try them all out for yourself.
 
Whichever you get, Ipad for ForeFlt or Android, make sure you get cell capability. Not to use as a phone but to use the GPS chip in order for the s/w to track you. The extra $150 is worth not having to use an external antenna and worry about another external device cluttering up the cockpit. I have an Air 2 and like the bigger screen. If you are looking at going IFR, ForeFlt is still better. I've tried FlyQ for a month and there were some things I didn't like. The one that stands out the most and is pretty important was when choosing Arrivals. ForeFlt gives you all the Arrivals on the map so you can best choose which one to use. With FlyQ you have to bring up each arrival and determine which one is the best, much more time consuming. With ForeFlt it much easier to file a flight plan than FlyQ. Also ForeFlt would let you know if ATC altered your flight plan and asked if you wanted to load the altered flight plan. With FlyQ I was a bit confused and never quite understood how to file. Also I don't think FlyQ had the ability to let you know if ATC altered your flight plan or at least didn't automatically let you know like ForeFlt does.

ForeFlt's price keeps creeping up which is why I tried FlyQ about 6 months ago in an effort to drop ForeFlt. However ForeFlt is still better in my opinion especially for IFR. If it's strictly for VFR, try FlyQ free for 30 days and/or others. But remember, if you end up with ForeFlt you will have to get an iPad. The only drawback with an iPad, and maybe droids as well (however I don't know), is the screen isn't very bright in direct sunlight not like an EFIS

Good luck
 
IMHO....

Then buy the most modern, most memory model you can afford. You can operate FF with a WiFi only model. I use WiFi only, no regret there.

Carl
..

I forgot to mention I use the

Bad Elf GPS (for Apple Lightning Connector)

to give the WiFi-only iPad reliable GPS location data. Cheap compared to a Cell subscription. Much later I added a Garmin GDL39, and now I have 2 GPS sources, and ADS-B traffic and weather displayed on the iPad with FFlight.

Some interesting feedback/comments on this thread. Fire the instructor? Weather contributes to many accidents, I?m very pleased that current weather is now available on my iPad, especially weather radar, for free! Having TFRs, traffic displayed on my screen, and audible ?traffic? calls in my headset is worth the basic FF subscription price.

Considering that student and new Private pilot errrors reflect badly on the CFI I can understand why a CFI might want these their student to have proficiency with these capabilities.

Carl
..
 
I forgot to mention I use the

Bad Elf GPS (for Apple Lightning Connector)

to give the WiFi-only iPad reliable GPS location data. Cheap compared to a Cell subscription. ...

Carl
..

You do have buy a cell-capable iPad to have internal GPS, but you do not have to have a cell subscription to utilize the internal GPS.
 
Getting an iPad with internal GPS is not much more than buying a separate external GPS, and it saves you from having yet another device to keep charged and another set of cables and charging equipment to carry around.

As mentioned earlier, just because you buy a cellular iPad does't mean you have to pay for a cellular subscription. I do find having the cellular modem very useful, though. AT&T offers a plan that you can activate for 24 hours that gives you a cellular connection for $5.00. This can be very useful in an emergency or if you get to a place without WiFi.

I have now almost completely replaced my laptop with my iPad. There are only a few things for which I prefer the laptop. I use it for non-aviation functions more than what I use it in the plane.

I prefer a larger iPad, so I have an iPad Pro 10.5". It also has the advantage of less glare than some of the previous iPads. I prefer to have it on my leg and to be able to pull it up close to me for better looking at details. I do not really like it mounted on the panel or the yoke.
 
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Ipad pro 10.5 here and love it, I can't imagine not using such a great tool especially for flight planning. If you plan on working on your IFR rating it also becomes an invaluable tool for approach plates, IFR charts etc. Does anybody really flight plan with the "primitive" tools we used to use? (calculator, whiz wheel, ruler).
Sounds like good CFI advice to me.
 
IPad mini 4 is my suggestion. Not sure how much room in sling 2 but larger size of other iPads may be an issue.
 
Fltplan Go

Avid Foreflight user here (VFR and IFR). On a whim I recently tried Fltplan Go on my Ipad although it's also available on Android.

I have to say I was mightily impressed by this totally free app. All charts and geo-referenced plates are free as well. I went back to Foreflight mostly because I didn't want to take the time to learn a new platform for IFR use, but if I was just starting out, I'd definitely give Fltplan Go a shot.

Agree with others that a CFI mandating an Ipad and Foreflight seems ridiculous. It speaks volumes about the CFI, and recommendations to find another that will teach you to fly rather than teach you to operate an Ipad might be wise.
 
CFI

While, fundamentally, I agree with getting the wide spectrum of tools for flight, the CFI in this case may have a DPE that mandates the use of technology. The DPE that I use for the occasional checkride that I refer, is all about technology. Agree or disagree, it might be the pressures of the check ride that is providing the motivation in this case. Training weather avoidance is a valid training tool, as well.

I still like NDB approaches for the mental gymnastics but my DPE won't test them so I don't want to take too much training time to spend enough time to get to proficiency.

I wouldn't be quick to judge the CFI here.

John
 
Having taken my first checkride less than a year ago I can say, Mary Schue(DPE), turned off the aircraft GPS right when she and I took to the air. Allowed no tablet device or GPS for the diversion part of the exam.
I still don't use a tablet but am in the process of making a purchase very soon.

I can't see any negatives to having it in the aircraft.

For the student, out here in the PNW the DPE's I have been in touch with want you to do it the old-fashioned way and then introduce it after you get your PPL, for the most part. This is Portland Oregon region I am speaking about.
 
I use the nexus tablet. I found it to be brighter and easier to see in an RV cockpit. It works perfectly with my ifly software. Your question relates to which device to buy.... others have mentioned software so I'll add my "IMHO" thoughts. I use ifly and have for years. No regrets whatsoever. Their software is super easy and doesn't really even require instruction because it is so intuitive! After using ifly for several years, I tried the free version of foreflight and without reading their instructions I couldn't figure it out. I know foreflight is a great product with a huge following obviously but try the others as well.
 
I suggest the Mini 4 with cellular and as much memory as you can afford. The cellular & memory for the reasons others have stated. The Mini size because I can strap it to my leg for use in some non-GPS airplanes I fly. It could be yoke mounted although I don't do that. It fits in the pocket of cargo shorts or a flight suit and it's generally just easier to carry than the other iPads. And, it's <big enough> to see, even with glasses. I just upgraded my Mini 2 to the Mini 4 because of persistent rumors that Apple is going to discontinue the Mini.
 
I suggest the Mini 4 with cellular and as much memory as you can afford. The cellular & memory for the reasons others have stated. The Mini size because I can strap it to my leg for use in some non-GPS airplanes I fly. It could be yoke mounted although I don't do that. It fits in the pocket of cargo shorts or a flight suit and it's generally just easier to carry than the other iPads. And, it's <big enough> to see, even with glasses. I just upgraded my Mini 2 to the Mini 4 because of persistent rumors that Apple is going to discontinue the Mini.

I love my mini 4 as well, but keep in mind that even it is 3 years old now, which is a long time as these things go. As apps improve they use more processing power. The mini won't keep up as long as newer models will.

Keep in mind also that a new iPad is probably coming in a few months and current models will also get discounted. I say buy the newest you can stomach, you'll get a longer useful life out of it.

Chris
 
Start with some basics?

Before you get a new iPad and foreflight, get a new flight instructor! :confused:

So far, two pages of replies and various diverse opinions. I'd begin at the biginning - what is your mission profile? (It may be too early in your flying career to 'nail it down') but the OP should have some concept of the type of plane, and aviation objectives desired. If I look back on my decades of aviation exposure the basics haven't changed, but been refined. Never thought of being a commercial, airline, for hire, multi-engine, or acro-guy. Wanted short haul (one to two days) cross-country transportation in VFR conditions. Wanted the latest technology available and not vintage or fading era of nostalgia, enjoy it, but not my mission profile.

Every answer for which version of tablet and app will change regularly and the 'best' answer may be free today and Android, or compatible with another advancing world. If the OP wants to ultimately get Instrument rating and have more advanced training then ForeFlight and iPad versions may be the 'path' that most closely leads there. But if he wants to tool around the vicinity and do back-country then it may be another option. In two years will the choice today matter? Maybe ... it depends. Will the APP still be around? or will it be litter on the technology highway? Maybe

If the intent is to build an RV-10 and fly the family in a Garmin equipped panel, then it may be another consideration. Who will spend $100K to build the dream and then make decisions on a tablet/app based on FREE to save the cost of a tank of gas?

I've been Dynon SkyView and iPad Mini2 (and 4) with ForeFlight (Basic and now Pro) - love the compatibility and features, the support and the continuously advancing releases. Just upgraded to the iPad 9.7" 2017 version. All VFR, local and cross-country. The WiFi link to SkyView is important; AHRS/GPS data, transfers flightplans bi-directionally. (Learned on steam gauges but could not find my bxxx with a VOR today with both hands.) Have/Use a BadElf Pro for backup GPS input to ForeFlight. iPads are ALWAYS for me, WiFi ONLY. There is NO GPS in a WiFi only iPad. Cellular versions include a GPS, but use of cellular while in the air will use the battery faster - is that a factor? (for the OP?). The BadElf is a much better GPS than the basic/built-in GPS in an iPad.

The future is some version of technically advanced aircraft (TAA) and I'd want to get the most/best training today with an instructor who will embrace that path. Would regret getting a PPL in a Warrior II and no technology (tablet) only to have to mentally start over with the technology. NDB's are being deactivated, VOR's will possibly follow or be cut-back. Look ahead and make choices to fill your mission profile objectives.
 
I can understand your CFI's desire to standardize on learning tools (most teachers do). I have an older iPad mini that FF no longer supports (with V10) and I won't be replacing it because I can use my iPhone for VFR flight planning, transfer it to my Dynon dual Skyview panel and hardly look at it after that. I keep FF running for the audible alerts but they are not super important.

Once you get your -12 built and flying, I suspect you won't use the iPad much in the cockpit but it is easier on the eyes than the phone for view chart data.
 
iPAD and softare

1. Make sure the iPAD has cellular capability even if you don't buy carrier service because only those iPADS have the GPS receiver which you need. I use full size, but mini would be great too.

2. Foreflight will interface to Dynon panel.

3. Garmin Pilot will interface to some Garmin 650 in panel.

You might want to use the software that works with hardware in your panel.

90% of pilots with tablets use iPads only 10% use Droid (per Garmin who runs on both platforms).
 
1. Make sure the iPAD has cellular capability even if you don't buy carrier service because only those iPADS have the GPS receiver which you need. I use full size, but mini would be great too.

2. Foreflight will interface to Dynon panel.

3. Garmin Pilot will interface to some Garmin 650 in panel.

You might want to use the software that works with hardware in your panel.

90% of pilots with tablets use iPads only 10% use Droid (per Garmin who runs on both platforms).

1. If you interface with an ADS-B receiver or a Dynon or AFS display, they provide GPS so you don’t NEED a cellular version, although it is nice.

2. Several Apa will interface with Dynon and AFS, but ForeFlight works best.

3. The 650 would require a Flightstream 210 or 510, then both ForeFlight and Garmin Pilot will interface with the 650.
 
Working as a techie I have access to a bunch of devices and have used most in the cockpit 182s to LSAs; some quite extensively.

My go to is the iPad mini 4. Mounted to my left on the windscreen or my left leg for VFR. I add a second one on the yoke for IFR.

Why?
* It has the most options for applications if you want to change. Android is getting there, but not there yet on the number of options. I would like to see more competition here, but software companies develop where they can sell.
* Battery life balance with processing power fits my flight profiles. Yes, I could run a 6? lighting cable to a battery pack, but I dont like to be tethered if I dont need to.
* small footprint, but still plenty big to read at normal viewing distances. Yes you can get a 10? pro, but that little bit of gain will cover up a PPT button on a Cessna 172 yoke.

Dont spend a ton on drive space. Yes, my test platforms are typically the largest ones they offer, but my total used space is typically very low. Take a look at how much space you are using on your phone today.

I am a big fan of using a stratux for GPS and ADSB unless you already have something on board. The cost of adding a GPS / cellular model you can get traffic and weather by building out one of those for under $150.

I currently use the base foreflight ($75ish). I also have fltplan go as a backup. I wish that FlyQ would make a few key changes to make their product right for me. Like why not throw up their non-FAA taxi diagrams if one does not exist when landing like FF does.

Just my .02
 
Apple air two.

Our 8 has all Garmin with connex and ADS-B Yi-Fi. We found we like the Apple air two, but we use Garmin Pilot because of our panel lay-out.
I think there is some merit to getting you ticket first and flying in the green before you start laying out you money. You need to test yourself and the gear a little at a time to see what works best for you. Not everyone has the same way of looking at your problems and coming to the same solution.
Hope this helps, Yours, R.E.A. III # 80888
 
Whichever you get, Ipad for ForeFlt or Android, make sure you get cell capability. Not to use as a phone but to use the GPS chip in order for the s/w to track you.

I have used a Samsung tablet, and more recently an iPad mini, with a variety of mapping SW packages. With both, I have used an external, bluetooth GPS mounted on the roll bar. A very old PDA based system I used, would not work well with the internal GPS when the tablet was strapped to my leg (in my -4).

Can the -4 and -8 drivers share their experiences using a tablet/iPad with an internal GPS with respect to signal/reception quality? (I would love to eliminate the GPS receiver from the roll bar, if possible.)

Thanks,
 
I've been flying for four years with the iPad Air 2 running Foreflight Pro and am very happy with it. I have the cellular option to get the internal GPS, but don't have cellular service (too expensive). I have a Stratus 2 for ADS-B (in) as well as the backup AHRS and synthetic vision. Here's a screen shot from a couple days ago:

XinG55.png
 
Learn to use your brain, Than use batteries.

While I do use an iPad, iPhone, and Foreflight

During my PPL Check ride in December The night before I was given my route and loading. It was mandatory from my examiner that all the diversion done mentally with a map and a clock and all flight planning were to be done using an E6B, Ruler and Map. It was hard work. but I know in a jam I can always use my head to get me on the ground

They do not suffer from the following- Poor reception, Overheat protection mode, shorten battery life due to cold temps.

(Full disclosure, I double checked my flight planning with forelight before I started my Oral exam) :D
 
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