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Garmin Service Policy Disappointing

C

Chippster1

Active Member
To All Fellow Pilots,

I must confess I have been very disappointed with the level of service from Garmin concerning my GTN650. Let me start by saying the unit has had trouble maintaining satellite lock since day one. The unit was purchased new in 2012 and was not installed or used until 2013 because the RV-10 was not completed until summer of 2013. It will lose the satellites for about 1-2 minutes during flight, and then re-aquire the sat lock in another 1-2 minutes. This is very disconcerting and dangerous in IMC. I have been told that this could be a defective antenna or GTN650 box itself. After spending 13-14k on this GPS, the company has the nerve to tell me they will charge me over $1200 to have it looked at because it's past warranty. It has never been reliable from the get go.
I don't know what to do as far as rectifying the situation, and would advise all other pilots to think about this before plunking down that much cash to be treated this way. I would consider looking at their competition's products.

Ted Chipps N498EC [email protected]
 
Ted

Even if they would have agreed to use the install date as the start of warranty would it still have been covered? I think you are outside of the warranty period either way. Before plunking down the 1200 I would get the antenna and wiring checked out first. If that all checks out ok, I would try and find a buddy with a GTN650 and rack his radio into your installation and go fly VFR to see if you have the same problem. If the problem goes away, its in your GPS, if the problem stays, its not the unit. A good avionics shop may also be able to help you out with this for troubleshooting purposes. If they aren't comfortable with you flying off with someone else GPS, just go sit out on the ramp and see if it looses lock. If the unit is the problem, I would try and go through an avionics shop vs talking directly to Garmin. I have had luck with shops willing to help more in these types of situations than the lone guy calling Garmin themselves. Just my 2 cents...
 
Don't give up....

Ted, you need to go back to the company you bought the unit from. I assume that would be Steinair or Stark or similar. They sell lots of units and you should have them intervene for you. I think you will be surprised at what they can get done. They stand a much better chance than you do personally. The unit is "older/installed" and like it or not..... it is out of warranty even though the installed and operating time is probably very low.

I am also assuming that you have tried another antenna to see if that makes a difference. Not sure if they are matched by serial number or not. That is a very possible cause and it could also be that you have it located where it occasionally gets shielded.

If that doesn't work, then carry the unit to Oshkosh or send with a friend and have them hand it to one of the on site Garmin folks at the big booth. They may not take it but they will not want a scene and usually they are very good about going over the top and working something out.

Worst case, pay the $1,200. It's a great unit and will come back with a guarantee that will be gold for 6 months or a year!
 
Chippster1 said:
To All Fellow Pilots,

I must confess I have been very disappointed with the level of service from Garmin concerning my GTN650. Let me start by saying the unit has had trouble maintaining satellite lock since day one. The unit was purchased new in 2012 and was not installed or used until 2013 because the RV-10 was not completed until summer of 2013. It will lose the satellites for about 1-2 minutes during flight, and then re-aquire the sat lock in another 1-2 minutes. This is very disconcerting and dangerous in IMC. I have been told that this could be a defective antenna or GTN650 box itself. After spending 13-14k on this GPS, the company has the nerve to tell me they will charge me over $1200 to have it looked at because it's past warranty. It has never been reliable from the get go.
I don't know what to do as far as rectifying the situation, and would advise all other pilots to think about this before plunking down that much cash to be treated this way. I would consider looking at their competition's products.

Ted Chipps N498EC [email protected]
Click to expand...

Hi Ted,

If this is the box purchased new from us in 2011 for less than $10K, then I'm afraid my date/dollar numbers don't jive with yours...and we need to figure out what the deal is. Either way, it's obvious you are frustrated and if this is the box giving you issues we'll certainly do what we can to help you within the constraints we have to work with. Please contact me directly and I'll see what we can do to help you get this figured out.

Cheers,
Stein
 
I think Patrick's troubleshooting advice is spot on.

Don't know how much experience you have with the TNC/coax connectors, but they can be tricky. Even if the cable rings out OK, vibration could cause shorts or loose connections.

Also, make sure you have the TNC connector screwed in all the way. There are good and bad quality connectors, and the bad ones can be hard to turn.

Good luck!
 
Steinair

To everyone out there-especially Stein at Steinair,

I just want you to know my beef is with Garmin and not Steinair.

Stein has been nothing less than stellar and wonderful, and I would encourage
everyone out there to do business with him!!

Ted
 
Chippster1 said:
To everyone out there-especially Stein at Steinair,

I just want you to know my beef is with Garmin and not Steinair.

Stein has been nothing less than stellar and wonderful, and I would encourage
everyone out there to do business with him!!

Ted
Click to expand...

No worries Ted. I know there has been the occasional struggle with your project and you've had some other unfortunate dealings, but we'll do what we can to try and get you all right as rain!

Cheers,
Stein
 
Chippster1 said:
I don't know what to do as far as rectifying the situation, and would advise all other pilots to think about this before plunking down that much cash to be treated this way. I would consider looking at their competition's products.

Ted Chipps N498EC [email protected]
Click to expand...

I would have started with the awesome resources we have right here at VAF. We have representatives that participate on here from both the experimental and certified sections within Garmin.

Your second post here on VAF and you come out blasting one of the leading manufacturers of experimental avionics and likely the most popular and reliable TSO'd GPSs in history the GNS and now GTN series.

Further down in this thread we see that your original post is questionable in the details. Suggestion....If your gonna blow a gasket, at least get the facts straight.

Most likely not the best approach to resolving your situation.
 
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Ted,

I had similar issues with my GTN650 as you did. This turned out to be my second issue with the GTN650. The first was a NAV card that went bad and cost me $975, since I was a few months after the warranty ended when I did my first flight. This is a good reason to delay purchases of Garmin gear until the very end. I don't like their warranty policy, but it is what it is......

Back to the topic at hand......

1. Check all your antenna writing:
- Ensure there are no shorts
- Ensure that the connectors are terminated correctly
2. Swap your antenna with a know working one.

My unit and antenna were purchase about the same time as yours. I had a GA-35 installed which has some active components inside of it. There is a rumor that there is a problem with people over torqueing the screws and causing cracks in the cause. I know this wasn't the case for me, since I measured the torque. I also used a magnifying glass to look for cracks and couldn't find any. My personal opinion is that Garmin had a problem with a batch of antennas, but since they are all out of the warranty period, we are out of luck.

I purchased a replacement antenna, swapped it out, and everything is back to normal again.
 
Call me

Ted, wish you would have called. I know Stein will help, but my airplane is down for a few weeks and we can try the antenna from mine to see if that makes a difference.
We have replaced the connectors on Ted's airplane. They were very poorly done and in fact some were connected to the wrong antennas originally.

I'm pretty confident it is an antenna or box at this time.

Vic
 
Are you the same Ted Chipps who a couple of years ago had to send your iPhone 4 back to Apple twice?

Ted
The unit was purchased new in 2012 and was not installed or used until 2013 because the RV-10 was not completed until summer of 2013. <snip> After spending 13-14k on this GPS
Click to expand...

Steinair
If this is the box purchased new from us in 2011 for less than $10K, then I'm afraid my date/dollar numbers don't jive with yours
Click to expand...

So which is it Ted? Less than 10K for the Box in 2011 or 13-14K for the Box in 2012? A new in the box 650 today costs less than $10,000 from a certified avionics dealer.

In any event there are numerous posts on this forum and others advising holding off on your avionics purchases due to warranty start dates. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread their warranty policy is the policy. Something you should have heeded going in.

I think it is unreasonable to expect them to warrant a product you bought 4 years ago or 2 years ago depending on whose facts are correct.

We have replaced the connectors on Ted's airplane. They were very poorly done and in fact some were connected to the wrong antennas originally.
Click to expand...

Were I Garmin' even under warranty, I would be concerned, if your connectors were poorly done and some devices connected to the wrong antennas, that you may have damaged the unit.

I would have started with the awesome resources we have right here at VAF. We have representatives that participate on here from both the experimental and certified sections within Garmin.
Click to expand...

Excellent advice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your second post here on VAF and you come out blasting one of the leading manufacturers of experimental avionics and likely the most popular and reliable TSO'd GPSs in history the GNS and now GTN series.

Further down in this thread we see that your original post is questionable in the details. Suggestion....If your gonna blow a gasket, at least get the facts straight.

Most likely not the best approach to resolving your situation.
Click to expand...

I couldn't have said it any better than Brantel
 
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The Flat Rate fee

I think the biggest grip with Garmin service is the Flat Rate fee. I know in most cases this covers whatever is wrong.

Why can't they go to a shop rate system and save the consumer some money? My only thought is they have you by short hairs and can get away with it. Even a person that works there that was trying to help me through the issue said he though it was out of line.

I had a 430 in my first 7. Two months after warranty the GPS portion went out. At that time it was $750 flat rate. It was more than 10% of the new purchase price. It was fixed with no further expenses. Shop time was less than 2 hours.

A neighbor had a bad volume switch. Again $750.

I know have a 750 in the new 7. I always dread the thought that something could go wrong. If I was starting over I would go all Garminless simply because of the Flat Rate service policy. We are not big corporate companies with deep pockets.
 
RV7Guy said:
I think the biggest grip with Garmin service is the Flat Rate fee. I know in most cases this covers whatever is wrong.

Why can't they go to a shop rate system and save the consumer some money? My only thought is they have you by short hairs and can get away with it. Even a person that works there that was trying to help me through the issue said he though it was out of line.

I had a 430 in my first 7. Two months after warranty the GPS portion went out. At that time it was $750 flat rate. It was more than 10% of the new purchase price. It was fixed with no further expenses. Shop time was less than 2 hours.

A neighbor had a bad volume switch. Again $750.

I know have a 750 in the new 7. I always dread the thought that something could go wrong. If I was starting over I would go all Garminless simply because of the Flat Rate service policy. We are not big corporate companies with deep pockets.
Click to expand...

So...the flat rate repair of $1200 from Avidyne for their comparable certified IFD box is that much better? Or Dynon's flat rate repair, or the PS Engineering flat rate repair fee, or the Chelton flat rate repair fee, or any of the other certified mfgr's that have them? We sell most of the aforementioned units, and also have dealt with their warranties. They all are pretty much the same anymore. As far as percentage of purchase price, if you take a look at even much of the experimental world, the flat rate repair many of these devices are similar. My point isn't to say it's bad or good, just to point out that your perspective and expectation may be slightly skewed without comparing all of the other products you'd end up paying relatively similar percentages for flat rate repairs on, irrespective of brand.

Love it or hate it, flat rate repairs have become the standard for quite some time (at least since things have become all modularized solid state). Shop rate repairs are for the most part long since gone, as it's just not typically economical to do it that way (for either the customer or the mfgr). It's only in rare cases where the shop rate repair structure could and does work, but it's a minority of cases anymore...and...fixing things on the bench just isn't as easy as it was when you could change a subcomponent without having a $10K desoldering & rework station to do it! :)

Not for nothing...but switching manufacturers isn't going to change the repair structure on your unit, whether it be a GTN or an IFD.

Just my 2 cents as usual.

Cheers,
Stein
 
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