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C-frame vs squeezer dimple quality...

wjb

wjb

Well Known Member
Hi Folks,

I just finished my HS on my -7 and have stared on the VS (only had to drill out 9 rivets!). I used a C-frame to dimple the inner set of holes in the skin, but I used my alligator squeezer to dimple the edges. I found that the squeezer dimples are not as sharp as the C-frames' product ... the squeezer dimples (also did some using the Tatco, with the same result) were a bit shallow so the rivet head sits up a smidge from the plane of the skin. I double checked this on my VS skin and found the same thing, so I C-framed all the holes (they look pretty now!).

Has anyone else noticed a difference in dimple quality between squeezers and C-frame smashers? Could it be the quality of the die (mine is from Brown tool, with RV starter kit)? Other posts tout the quality of the Cleveland dies, which I'll try. I'd love to keep using the alligator squeezer if I can ... it's quite a bit faster!
 
The 'C' frame will always do a better job because the dies are perfectly aligned and the pressure uniform, the flex of the yoke causes misalignment of the dies.
 
I have never used the alligator squeezer, but.....

As Walt has eluded to, different tools and different dies will yield some slightly different results. Regardless of that, I would still expect the dimples from the squeezer to be deep enough to allow the rivet to seat properly. One thing I would check is to make sure that the dies are adjusted properly in the squeezer. For example, for my squeezer I am supposed to set the dies so that at full squeeze the dies are tight, but you can still turn them with your fingers. During long dimpling runs with the squeezer I periodically need to readjust them - usually when i start to notice slight changes in the dimple quality. Also check that your air pressure is set correcty for the tool you are using.

I use the dies from Cleaveland tools, and, except for my ocassional human stupidity, I have not had any problems setting correct dimples using any tool (C - frame, air squeezer, or hand squeezer). There are other posts in here that verify that sometimes using dies from a different source does solve some problems, but in my experience depth problems are usually due to the yoke being used or from incorrectly positioned dies.
 
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I agree with Walt. Even an average C-frame flex's some and you would be surprised to see the difference in quality of the dimple between a C-frame set on a table and one that is "posted" or secured to the floor. (DRDT aside. There is a reason the DRDT is built like it is, and good luck flexing that C-frame)
Squeezers just don't develop as much striking force, even when properly aligned. However, you can still produce a decent dimple, it is just not as crisp.
Will that make a difference in the finished product? Marginally in my opinion.

The main reason I do not like squeezer set dimples is that I have rarely if ever heard of anybody putting in an "extra" hole with a C-frame, not that it can't happen. Almost always when you read about someone putting in that extra hole, or figure eight hole, it was from the use of the squeezer to dimple. They are really easy to false trigger.
 
The Alligator

wjb said:
........Has anyone else noticed a difference in dimple quality between squeezers and C-frame smashers? Could it be the quality of the die (mine is from Brown tool, with RV starter kit)? Other posts tout the quality of the Cleveland dies, which I'll try. I'd love to keep using the alligator squeezer if I can ... it's quite a bit faster!
Click to expand...
There are alligator squeezers and there are alligator squeezers. I have a lot of experience with all manner of pneumatic squeezers and vastly prefer my powerful alligator over the far more common C type squeezer which I also happen to possess but mostly remains in the tool cabinet. Like everything else, you get what you pay for. When the trigger is quickly depressed, my double piston alligator can "slap" into the work and as a result, produces crisp high quality dimples. There is not a bench mounted squeezer around that can dimple nearly as fast as I can using the alligator. That is no idle boast. This short video shows me dimpling a typical RV8 main wing rib in short order and can give you an idea how fast and accurate dimpling can be when you use a no nonsense high quality tool. Long used in the production environment for that very reason, don't believe for a minute those who offer dubious claims that the geometry of an alligator is not up to the task. If that were so, it would be banned from the production environment and it most certainly is not. For setting rivets up to a beefy AD6 or for routine dimpling operations, I'll reach for the alligator 90% of the time.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BR2giHt2Mi0
 
Experienced builders striving for the best finish possible use a C-frame tool for all dimples in skins, and a squeezer for all substructure.

BTW, a C-frame tool doesn't assure a nice finish, it still has to be done properly.
I have seen RV's that were entirely dimpled with a C-frame tool but every single dimple was under formed.
 
Rick6a said:
There are alligator squeezers and there are alligator squeezers. I have a lot of experience with all manner of pneumatic squeezers and vastly prefer my powerful alligator over the far more common C type squeezer which I also happen to possess but mostly remains in the tool cabinet. Like everything else, you get what you pay for. When the trigger is quickly depressed, my double piston alligator can "slap" into the work and as a result, produces crisp high quality dimples. There is not a bench mounted squeezer around that can dimple nearly as fast as I can using the alligator. That is no idle boast. This short video shows me dimpling a typical RV8 main wing rib in short order and can give you an idea how fast and accurate dimpling can be when you use a no nonsense high quality tool. Long used in the production environment for that very reason, don't believe for a minute those who offer dubious claims that the geometry of an alligator is not up to the task. If that were so, it would be banned from the production environment and it most certainly is not. For setting rivets up to a beefy AD6 or for routine dimpling operations, I'll reach for the alligator 90% of the time.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BR2giHt2Mi0
Click to expand...

Rick, your an experienced builder and I trust your opinion. I think the bigger issue is most do not have your experience and squeezers have their own learning curve. Most also do not invest in a dual piston squeezer nor do they know how to set them up and keep them set up through the operations.
 
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