Pat Stewart
Well Known Member
Just checking the market. I have a quote for $2400 for a hull value of 150K. Just curious what the market is and if there are better alternatives.
Pat
Pat
Van's Air Force
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RV-10 Insurance
- Thread starter Pat Stewart
- Start date
Flying again!
Well Known Member
I'll check when I get home, but I recall mine was ~$1900 for a hull value of $120K with expectations for it to go down significantly after the first year.
I will re-post when I get the info. It is through AOPA and the folks I worked with were very helpful in finding the right insurance for me....some insurance companies required 10 hours dual in an RV-10 and 10 hours solo before having pax!!
The company I ended up with just wanted a log book endorsement with no min number of hours etc. They also have been very helpful with clearing others to fly the a/c (CFIs etc.).
I will re-post when I get the info. It is through AOPA and the folks I worked with were very helpful in finding the right insurance for me....some insurance companies required 10 hours dual in an RV-10 and 10 hours solo before having pax!!
The company I ended up with just wanted a log book endorsement with no min number of hours etc. They also have been very helpful with clearing others to fly the a/c (CFIs etc.).
rleffler
Well Known Member
That's around what I got for 160k coverage. It beats the $3,500 I've been getting this past year.
Jdanno, email me and I can provide details.
bob
Mike S
Senior Curmudgeon
Mine is in the same range, also insured for 150k
Skysmith did me the best for finding a good price, and they also covered me from first flight.
I would also recommend contacting Jenny Estes http://www.vansairforce.com/community/member.php?u=7968 at Nationair, she knows things RVish.
Good luck,
Skysmith did me the best for finding a good price, and they also covered me from first flight.
I would also recommend contacting Jenny Estes http://www.vansairforce.com/community/member.php?u=7968 at Nationair, she knows things RVish.
Good luck,
Folks,
To compare apples to apples you need to know (1) the coverages, and (2) pilot experience and ratings. That's what the insurance companies go on.
For example:
$140K hull, $1M/$100K liability.
Phase 1 coverage included.
Pilot: commercial, instrument, CFII, 2000+ TT, 1000+ CS ("high performance"), but at the time (Late last summer) just 20 hrs in RV-10.
Premium: $2.8K
I wonder if there is an age bias here, I'm 63. At some point the insurance companies get nervous about age.
Rates seem to be coming down with a 3rd company entering the market recently. I hope so. I'm considering offering RV-10 type specific training (I have the FAA approval) in the San Francisco Bay area. But I've been quoted an extra $1K for insurance, so I'm not sure this makes business sense.
To compare apples to apples you need to know (1) the coverages, and (2) pilot experience and ratings. That's what the insurance companies go on.
For example:
$140K hull, $1M/$100K liability.
Phase 1 coverage included.
Pilot: commercial, instrument, CFII, 2000+ TT, 1000+ CS ("high performance"), but at the time (Late last summer) just 20 hrs in RV-10.
Premium: $2.8K
I wonder if there is an age bias here, I'm 63. At some point the insurance companies get nervous about age.
Rates seem to be coming down with a 3rd company entering the market recently. I hope so. I'm considering offering RV-10 type specific training (I have the FAA approval) in the San Francisco Bay area. But I've been quoted an extra $1K for insurance, so I'm not sure this makes business sense.
Flying again!
Well Known Member
Just Renewed My Insurance
Changed companies to Falcon since they gave the lowest qoute this year. I am underinsuring a little to reduce the cost some. For $120K hull insurance and $1M/$100K liability it is now $2231.
Changed companies to Falcon since they gave the lowest qoute this year. I am underinsuring a little to reduce the cost some. For $120K hull insurance and $1M/$100K liability it is now $2231.
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Gary 40274
Well Known Member
Do not underinsure
When you underinsure, do you realize that the insurance company has the option of totaling your airplane and taking the wreck and only paying you the coverage limit. Are you willing to sell your wrecked plane to them for $120K?
Gary
When you underinsure, do you realize that the insurance company has the option of totaling your airplane and taking the wreck and only paying you the coverage limit. Are you willing to sell your wrecked plane to them for $120K?
Gary
Falcon is a broker - it is their job to represent you to various insurance companies and plead on your behalf for the best coverage and rates, while at the same time being honest about your qualifications. I always found this middle man thing to be a bit odd. Of course they are supposed to give you an unbiased assessment of your needs and what you are getting.
But that aside, do you know what company they placed you with?
And, for honest comparisons, would you care to divulge personal data? (total hours, RV10 hours, instrument rating yes/no)?
I would also echo the above comments, be careful about under-insuring. If you have a $100K accident the insurance company will likely give you $120K. But then they will own it, and they'll part it out, selling engine, avionics, etc, to reduce their loss.
But that aside, do you know what company they placed you with?
And, for honest comparisons, would you care to divulge personal data? (total hours, RV10 hours, instrument rating yes/no)?
I would also echo the above comments, be careful about under-insuring. If you have a $100K accident the insurance company will likely give you $120K. But then they will own it, and they'll part it out, selling engine, avionics, etc, to reduce their loss.
N941WR
Legacy Member
One other thing, they will total it, when the damage reaches 70% of the insurred value. Thus you only have to do $84K damage to the aircraft for them to take it and give you back $120K. Hail will do that much damage in a heartbeat.
Here is a thought, insure it for solo flight for 40 hours. They may give you a reduction in your rate. Then after your phase 1, tell them you have 40 hours in type and would like a quote for a four seat RV-10. This has worked for other types of EAB's and might just work for you.
It's worse than that, Bill. The policy says that they can total it at their discression for any loss. The GENERAL roule of thumb is that they start thinking total if the cost to repair approaches 70% of insured value.
But - it you are underinsured, it may become way more cost effective to total than to repair. I once had a client that insisted on insuring his $40K airplane for $20K to save $400-$500 in premium. He suffered some minor hail damage and the insurance company offered $3,000 (fixing it would have cost 10-12K) or they would give him a total.
The insurer could have sold the "scrap" for 20K easy and the insurer would have lost nothing - maybe even made a little. Offering $3K was a courtesy to the insured. He took the $3K and flew a dented airplane.
Lesson: Insured to value. Save money by insuing for gound risks only and self insuring the in flight risk.
Pat Stewart
Well Known Member
My 10 is insured by Ace Aviation, call Victoria P?t? at 706-549-7005 or 678-491-4800. Sorry it took so long to respond, I lost track of this thread.
Pat
You airplane is NOT insured by Ace Aviation. Ace is your broker. Your insurer is Chartis, Starr, Global Aerospace, or one of several others. Ace could have placed your coverage with ANY of these - and so could anyone else.
That's like saying Carmax makes a really good SUV.
Pat Stewart
Well Known Member
You certainly have me on a large technicality. The insurer is Star.
I'm sorry Jeff, could you explain that a little clearer please, like I'm a 5 year old. Do you mean you do not insure for flight risks, but pay out of your pocket if any thing happens?
We bought my wifes Taurus from Carmax, nice car, nice people, they didn't make it though
Correct me if I am mistaken.
Liability covers damages you do to others with your airplane.
Liability insurance is relatively inexpensive.
Coverage for damage to your airplane when not in motion includes theft and
Bubba running his car into your parked airplane as well as hail and tornado damage as long as the airplane is not in motion and on the ground.
Somewhat expensive.
Hull insurance covers the loss of your airplane if you roll it up in a ball for whatever reason.
This is the expensive portion of your insurance and many opt to fly without it
and self insure that portion.If your aircraft is paid for and you didn't mortgage
your kids college education you might be ok with that.
Liability covers damages you do to others with your airplane.
Liability insurance is relatively inexpensive.
Coverage for damage to your airplane when not in motion includes theft and
Bubba running his car into your parked airplane as well as hail and tornado damage as long as the airplane is not in motion and on the ground.
Somewhat expensive.
Hull insurance covers the loss of your airplane if you roll it up in a ball for whatever reason.
This is the expensive portion of your insurance and many opt to fly without it
and self insure that portion.If your aircraft is paid for and you didn't mortgage
your kids college education you might be ok with that.
Thanks Ernst, I think I would fully insure liability and hull.
Liability is relatively inexpensive. That's because it is very difficult to get substantial amounts of coverage. Standard for most policies is $1M/$100K. That means if you injure or kill a passenger (or anyone if you use AVEMCO) the most your insurance will pay out is $100K to that person or his/her estate. Many jury awards far exceed that.
Bill.Peyton
Well Known Member
I have tried to get a smooth limits policy on the -10, but all of the quotes limited the $1M to 100K sub. Be careful with the sub-limit alnguage, some policies state "per person" and some are "per passenger". Obviously a huge difference.
I just got my quote for my first flight and phase I from Global Aerospace, $175K, ~2K hours comm/inst, for $2,994. I am hoping that goes down after I get some time in the -10 and it gets some time with me!
I just got my quote for my first flight and phase I from Global Aerospace, $175K, ~2K hours comm/inst, for $2,994. I am hoping that goes down after I get some time in the -10 and it gets some time with me!
To the best of my knowledge only AVEMCO has "per person" sublimits, all the others are "per passenger".
I too asked about higher coverage and was told the market just didn't offer it. The insurance companies know that, statistically, it is rare for non passengers to be injured so really I'm paying for $300K liability, plus a bit more for the unlikely chance of hurting a non-passenger.
The whole process is something of a mystery to me. When I was in a 182 partnership the premium for $3M liability was more than triple the premium for $1M. The agent's explanation was "attractive target for lawyers" and "legal costs". Apparently for a large claim the company would just write a check for $1M, but was prepared to fight it out in court for more than that.
PS As most of you know, you have to go directly to Avemco to get a quote from them. An independent agent should be able to get quotes from everyone else. I tried Avemco, just to be complete, but their quote was nearly twice Chartis', as well as having the "per person" exclusion. However, they did send me the promised nice baseball cap for my trouble. My hangar neighbor said it must be the world's most expensive hat!
I too asked about higher coverage and was told the market just didn't offer it. The insurance companies know that, statistically, it is rare for non passengers to be injured so really I'm paying for $300K liability, plus a bit more for the unlikely chance of hurting a non-passenger.
The whole process is something of a mystery to me. When I was in a 182 partnership the premium for $3M liability was more than triple the premium for $1M. The agent's explanation was "attractive target for lawyers" and "legal costs". Apparently for a large claim the company would just write a check for $1M, but was prepared to fight it out in court for more than that.
PS As most of you know, you have to go directly to Avemco to get a quote from them. An independent agent should be able to get quotes from everyone else. I tried Avemco, just to be complete, but their quote was nearly twice Chartis', as well as having the "per person" exclusion. However, they did send me the promised nice baseball cap for my trouble. My hangar neighbor said it must be the world's most expensive hat!
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