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Crow Seat belts

Brandi

Well Known Member
I'm not too overly thrilled with our Crow seat belts. We ordered them from ACS and specified that they were for the RV-10. However, I can't get the back seat lap belts tight enough to even look like it would do any good on me. They're as tight as they go and you could pretty much fit a small child in my lap still. Does anyone use these with little people in the back seat? Maybe they just sent us the wrong belts?

The front lap belts fit fine but the front harnesses pose the same problem Rob has here: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=68109
 
I would not recommend any builders purchasing

them unless some adjustments are made. Anyone is welcome to try mine on for size while at Osh. I am making do but some minor changes would make them perfect. I really like the camloc mechanism.

The rear pax needs to be greater than 110 lbs to fit snug. The front "Y" is just like Rob posted. See above.
 
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I hope you guys with problems who know what needs to be changed are feeding that back to Crow - my experience with them is that they want to provide a good product, but they need to know what the problems are. And if they don't respond, then their products won't gain much traction....
 
Mine fit great in my RV-9A and I can't imagine they wouldn't want feedback to help fine tune their 10 belts. I know if it was my product I would welcome the help.
 
RE - Crow belts

I LOVE my "Crow" belts. Call them they will make it right and probably welcome your feed back.
 
I hope you guys with problems who know what needs to be changed are feeding that back to Crow - my experience with them is that they want to provide a good product, but they need to know what the problems are. And if they don't respond, then their products won't gain much traction....

A while ago, I have asked whether they are now providing mounting hardware with a anchor hole sized to the RV so a washer adapter is not needed. Has this been done yet?

Bevan
 
Somebody on VAF was selling bushings for changing the bolt hole size. That is where I got mine. A number of people use washers.

Crow is very willing to help out...at least with me. They told me if I ever needed any adjustments they would take care of them free of charge. Mine fit pretty well though.

They are located a couple of miles from Disneyland (where we go a lot) behind the Costco so I paid them a visit once. Nothing spectacular. Just a warehouse filled with people sewing. In fact, I never could draw anybody's attention so I just left. They were pretty busy.
 
The -3 harness we bought last year still had the larger holes, and it took me about five minutes to turn down the necessary number of washers using a bolt, drill press, and file.

I think the key is that Crow buys the end fittigns - they don't do their own metal fabbing.
 
The -3 harness we bought last year still had the larger holes, and it took me about five minutes to turn down the necessary number of washers using a bolt, drill press, and file.

I think the key is that Crow buys the end fittigns - they don't do their own metal fabbing.


The set I bought through ACS just a little while ago also has the larger holes. I will also have to make some spacers to fit the belts, shouldn't be a big deal.
 
Crow seat belts and Vans

Well, after reading all of these posts, and buying the stock Vans belts (which were different shades of gray, so I returned them), I bought a set of Crow's from ACS. Like Brandi, I found them much too long (in the "Y"), and like everyone else, the 7/8-inch holes are obviously too big for the 1/4-inch bolts envisioned by Vans and sized for the hard points already in-place in the fast-build kit. What isn't mentioned, however, is that the hard points are also sized for a mounting bracket that is 1/8-inch thick, and the Crow bracket is 3/16-inch thick. Thus, to fit the Crow bracket into the hard point, you need to spread the hard point's halves, and thus it's no longer parallel to the bracket.

So, I called Crow about all three issues (the too-long length, the too-large holes, and the too-thick bracket). Unlike the rest of you, Crow was a bit annoyed by my call, and essentially told me to modify it myself or send it back. He also told me I was the first to point out these issues.

I don't know, but I guess I assumed that for about $500 I'd get something that would fit, and maybe some empathy.

What about the Aero-Tuff seatbelt harness that ACS sells? (I know it's pricey, but I just want something that works.) Has anyone used it? Is there another product out there that works with only minor "fixing"? I'm especially concerned about the bracket's width vs the hard point's spacing. I can live with the hole size difference.

Thanks!
 
Last year I purchased a front harness for my RV4. Fortunately I was able to measure the previous belts to get the measurements correct and I ordered directly from Crow. They were concerned my measurements were not correct for an RV4 so I reiterated the measurements were from my existing belts and correct. They sent what I ordered in the size I ordered and all is good, love the belts. Lesson learned here is get the measurements you need ahead of time before ordering. Whatever reference they are using may not be correct.
 
Well, after reading all of these posts, and buying the stock Vans belts (which were different shades of gray, so I returned them), I bought a set of Crow's from ACS. Like Brandi, I found them much too long (in the "Y"), and like everyone else, the 7/8-inch holes are obviously too big for the 1/4-inch bolts envisioned by Vans and sized for the hard points already in-place in the fast-build kit. What isn't mentioned, however, is that the hard points are also sized for a mounting bracket that is 1/8-inch thick, and the Crow bracket is 3/16-inch thick. Thus, to fit the Crow bracket into the hard point, you need to spread the hard point's halves, and thus it's no longer parallel to the bracket.

So, I called Crow about all three issues (the too-long length, the too-large holes, and the too-thick bracket). Unlike the rest of you, Crow was a bit annoyed by my call, and essentially told me to modify it myself or send it back. He also told me I was the first to point out these issues.

I don't know, but I guess I assumed that for about $500 I'd get something that would fit, and maybe some empathy.

What about the Aero-Tuff seatbelt harness that ACS sells? (I know it's pricey, but I just want something that works.) Has anyone used it? Is there another product out there that works with only minor "fixing"? I'm especially concerned about the bracket's width vs the hard point's spacing. I can live with the hole size difference.

Thanks!

My neighbor just went through a similar process with harnesses he ordered from a third party seller of Crow products for his RV-6A. I recommend ordering directly from Crow. They are pretty good about knowing exactly what you need for the various RV models.
 
What could ever go wrong

What could ever go wrong with a hooker in an RV-10 ?:p

Just don't let your wife find out.

Just got my Hooker seatbelts that I custom ordered at OSH. They look great, but don't know how they work yet as they are not installed.
 
... Crow was a bit annoyed by my call, and essentially told me to modify it myself or send it back. He also told me I was the first to point out these issues...

I'm lazy... I haven't called them yet. I'll let you know what they tell me though.
 
I got exactly what I ordered when I bought my Crow's. I would recommend ordering direct and to have some understanding of what you want before calling.

They are race car people not airplane experts. They are however willing to build whatever you need.

Last I checked, they are about 1/2 the price of Hooker and to my eyes, equal quality. The cam-lock latch is awesome!
 
I ordered mine directly with Crow and they were very helpful in determining what I needed. I just gave them the type of RV I had, they made suggestions and the end product were belts that fit great, comfortable and easy to use. The camloc style are great!

I would NOT recommend ordering them through any 3rd party. Call them directly and you'll get what you need, not what the 3rd party thinks you need.
 
What isn't mentioned, however, is that the hard points are also sized for a mounting bracket that is 1/8-inch thick, and the Crow bracket is 3/16-inch thick. Thus, to fit the Crow bracket into the hard point, you need to spread the hard point's halves, and thus it's no longer parallel to the bracket.


Can someone confirm that this is fixed, or can Crow provide an 1/8 thick mounting end plate?
 
I called

I called Crow to ask about the availability of pre-made bushings for the attachment tangs and they told me that these are a standard size for the industry in both thickness and mounting hole. They did not offer an alternative.

They then pointed out that a #6M (metric) washer nicely fits the hole and accepts a 1/4 '' bolt. Sure enough, a trip to True Value rendered a box of washers that fit perfectly with only a little dressing on the occasional one required. A stack of four makes a 0.25" thick bushing that can be snugged up with the AN4 anchor bolt to make a nice pivoting installation. As for the gap in the mounting bracket, each one took between 5 and 10 minutes to reshape to accept the 0.25" bushing. I spent less than a half day installing these very nice belts in a manner that I feel certain will keep me safely in the airplane.
 
Happy with mine, for sure

I bought my set on the Crow web site. They had a choice for RV-6, or maybe RV-generic, I don't remember. They arrived 3 days later. Great service!

I wish I had known about the 6mm Metric washer trick. I used standard AN4 (thick) washers, chucked them up on my drill press, and held a file to them as I ground them down to fit the Crow harness. It worked, but the 6mm washer sounds easier.

I never spoke with anyone at Crow, didn't need to. Great harness, and I love the Cam Lock latch!!

Couldn't be happier, and can't understand all the complaining about having to very slightly modify things to install harnesses. After all, you're building a plane, aren't you? :rolleyes:
 
Chuck and Pete,

The hole size doesn't bother me, spacers are easy...:)

But can you tell us whether the ends were 1/8 or 3/16 inch thick?
 
Crow's seat belt bracket thickness

It's 3/16 inch. The gap in the plane to receive them is 1/8 inch.:(

And, for $500+, Fred Crow should have been a little bit nicer!
 
Gil,

The brackets work just fine with Van's mounts. Spreading them an additional 1/16" is no problem since this is spread out over the distance between the seat ribs. I doubt anyone would ever be able to tell the difference.

Oh and Fred Crow was nice as can be to me...
 
Gil,

The brackets work just fine with Van's mounts. Spreading them an additional 1/16" is no problem since this is spread out over the distance between the seat ribs. I doubt anyone would ever be able to tell the difference.

Oh and Fred Crow was nice as can be to me...

Mine are already drilled and mounted, and probably on the smaller end of the tolerance...:(
 
Mine were as well. The Crow buckles fit snug but with little to no effort. This is really a non issue.
 
Enlarged to 0.25"

The Crow belt tang is just over 3/16" in thickness, about 0.200" as I recall. I increased the width of the brackets on the plane to 0.250" to accommodate my 4 washer bushing. The extra 0.050" allows the belt tang to rotate freely. I found that increasing the spacing of each bracket while maintaining parallel sides to be easy even after they were installed and drilled.
 
I had no problem when I called the Crow company. I was surprised to be talking to Mr. Crow himself, and he was really helpful in my opinion. I haven't installed the harnesses yet, but some of the tips here in this thread should be pretty helpful. Thanks guys.
 
Little late answering, but the ends are approx 3/16" thick. They easily slipped into the floor brackets for the lap belt, and required no spreading of the shoulder fitting. A total non-issue.

I still need to install my crotch strap kit, not really looking forward to that retrofit!

Still amazed at all the furore over a silly 1/16" :p



Chuck and Pete,

The hole size doesn't bother me, spacers are easy...:)

But can you tell us whether the ends were 1/8 or 3/16 inch thick?
 
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