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  #1  
Old 06-01-2021, 09:22 AM
SantosDumont SantosDumont is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Henderson, NV
Posts: 95
Default How to tell if the airworthiness cert is ELSA.

Iím thinking about partnering in an already built RV-12 and getting my LSRM and going to Rotax class so I can do my own annuals/condition inspections.

As far as I understand LSRM covers SLSA and ELSA RV-12s but not EAB.

When I look up the airworthiness cert of the FAA how can I tell the difference between ELSA and EAB?
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  #2  
Old 06-01-2021, 09:40 AM
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DaleB DaleB is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Omaha, NE (KMLE)
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FAA registry for mine says:

Classification Experimental
Category None, Operating Light-Sport Kit-Built

I just looked up another RV-12 operating from our field, it says the same thing. Probably pretty consistent.
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Omaha, NE
RV-12 # 222 N980KM "Screamin' Canary" (bought flying)
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Previous RV-7 project (sold)
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  #3  
Old 06-01-2021, 10:28 AM
NinerBikes NinerBikes is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Granada Hills
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E AB built inspections are fine, if you are the original builder, or have your AP, I believe.

Someone here is bound to correct me, if I am wrong.

If your plane is a E-LSA built RV-12, then you need the 16 hour E-LSA inspection course offered by Rainbow, or others. I believe there is a class up near Van's in Aurora, OR this Sept?

In other words, partnering with an owner with a E-LSA built RV-12 takes less schooling time, to do your inspection annuals.

A Sport LSA requires much more schooling to do 100 hr inspections on, because it can be used for commercial flight school instruction, and the liabilities incurred with flying as a business or for profit, by a flight school.

The FAA registration online under FAA Aircraft registry should state:

Classification "Experimental"

Category "None Operating Light Sport Kit Built"
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Last edited by NinerBikes : 06-01-2021 at 10:37 AM.
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  #4  
Old 06-01-2021, 10:46 AM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
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LSR-M is for SLSA only. For an ELSA RV-12 you need the LSR-I (Inspector)
BTW, you do not need the Rotax class to do the condition inspection, but I highly recommend you get it anyway.

For an E-AB RV-12 the Reg info will list Experimental under the Classification, and Amateur Built under the Category and the list manufacturer will typically be the builders name.

For E-LSA the registration will still list Experimental under the Classification, but will be Operating Light Sport under the Classification, and Van's Aircraft Inc will be listed under manufacturer (if it was registered properly, a few were not).
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Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.

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Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")

Last edited by rvbuilder2002 : 06-01-2021 at 10:50 AM.
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  #5  
Old 06-01-2021, 11:07 AM
SantosDumont SantosDumont is offline
 
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Location: Henderson, NV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
LSR-M is for SLSA only. For an ELSA RV-12 you need the LSR-I (Inspector)
Scott, I don't think this is entirely correct.

According to this FAA guide, AIR-230 it says that LSRM can perform maintenance on and inspect either SLSA or ELSA.

It looks to me like LSRI is equivalent to getting the repairman cert for a EAB except that you can get it for an ELSA that you own but did not build. Interesting that LSRI can perform annual inspections but not 100hr inspections.
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  #6  
Old 06-01-2021, 11:14 AM
SantosDumont SantosDumont is offline
 
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Location: Henderson, NV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NinerBikes View Post
E AB built inspections are fine, if you are the original builder, or have your AP, I believe.
I don't have the time to take years off of work to get A&P, but I can take a few weeks off to get LSRM. The only LSRM course I've been able to find is a two week course at Rainbow in Missouri. If anyone else knows of another that's not in the middle of nowhere, I'd be interested in doing that so I could leverage my hotel points and be near civilization while I'm doing the course. Otherwise I guess I can rent an RV and drive out there.
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  #7  
Old 06-01-2021, 11:22 AM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Location: Hubbard Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SantosDumont View Post
Scott, I don't think this is entirely correct.

According to this FAA guide, AIR-230 it says that LSRM can perform maintenance on and inspect either SLSA or ELSA.

It looks to me like LSRI is equivalent to getting the repairman cert for a EAB except that you can get it for an ELSA that you own but did not build. Interesting that LSRI can perform annual inspections but not 100hr inspections.
Correct, but since you were asking about the difference between EAB and ELSA, I assumed you are not potentially looking at owning an SLSA.

There would be no point in getting the LSRM rating if owning an ELSA. The LSRI is all that is needed and can be obtained by taking a weekend class, vs a few weeks for the LSRM.
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Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.

Scott McDaniels
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop Manager
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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  #8  
Old 06-01-2021, 11:41 AM
SantosDumont SantosDumont is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Henderson, NV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
Correct, but since you were asking about the difference between EAB and ELSA, I assumed you are not potentially looking at owning an SLSA.

There would be no point in getting the LSRM rating if owning an ELSA. The LSRI is all that is needed and can be obtained by taking a weekend class, vs a few weeks for the LSRM.
Ah yeah we're thinking about forming a flight club so SLSA would be preferred, but looks like we could make ELSA work if all the members are equity members. But then I would need LSRM to do the 100hr inspections.

I think I would prefer to do LSRM just to have the rating and so I could log the time to eventually get A&P.
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  #9  
Old 06-01-2021, 12:33 PM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SantosDumont View Post
I think I would prefer to do LSRM just to have the rating and so I could log the time to eventually get A&P.
That makes sense. I might be mistaken but I am pretty sure that any work you do that can count towards qualifying for the A&P rating, has to be done under the tutelage of another A&P.
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Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.

Scott McDaniels
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop Manager
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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  #10  
Old 06-01-2021, 12:43 PM
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Mel Mel is online now
 
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Location: Dallas area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
That makes sense. I might be mistaken but I am pretty sure that any work you do that can count towards qualifying for the A&P rating, has to be done under the tutelage of another A&P.
Maybe I'm remembering wrong but wouldn't an LSRM also allow him to do inspections on other peoples E-LSA and/or S-LSA charge for it?

I realize that this would be pretty rare, as most owners will get their own LSRI, but it could happen.
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EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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