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  #1  
Old 05-18-2021, 05:48 PM
SkyDreams09 SkyDreams09 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Chambersburg
Posts: 5
Default RV-12 Gross Load with new LSA rules

I realize this may be a loaded question for some and a liability question for Vans. However, I think it's worth asking.

I'm considering an RV-12 and have a sport pilot rating. Before I drop 100-140k for a new or new to me RV-12 what will the value be if the new LSA rules increase to 2000 - 3600? Would the RV-12 design allow for some increase if the new rules take place? Will the values of these 1320 LSA drop significantly?

I know there are some LSA's in the market that are certified elsewhere in the 1500-1600lb range. They are only limited by the 1320lb by FAA restrictions for LSA. I'm curious if anyone knows the actual design specs of the RV.

I would love to hear some thoughts on this topic.
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  #2  
Old 05-18-2021, 05:52 PM
mags591 mags591 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Bowie, MD
Posts: 26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDreams09 View Post
I realize this may be a loaded question for some and a liability question for Vans. However, I think it's worth asking.

I'm considering an RV-12 and have a sport pilot rating. Before I drop 100-140k for a new or new to me RV-12 what will the value be if the new LSA rules increase to 2000 - 3600? Would the RV-12 design allow for some increase if the new rules take place? Will the values of these 1320 LSA drop significantly?

I know there are some LSA's in the market that are certified elsewhere in the 1500-1600lb range. They are only limited by the 1320lb by FAA restrictions for LSA. I'm curious if anyone knows the actual design specs of the RV.

I would love to hear some thoughts on this topic.
Following! Im contemplating building an RV12 myself. Im interested to know if vans will change the Max gross weight (if the plane can handle it) and specifically what the changes might do to values.
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  #3  
Old 05-18-2021, 06:22 PM
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Mel Mel is online now
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 11,034
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First........Only Vans can answer that question. My guess is that the RV-12 was designed to the 1320 lb. specification and there is no margin for an increase.

Second.......I would not hold off on any decision waiting for the FAA to make that change. These changes literally take years to finalize.
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EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
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  #4  
Old 05-18-2021, 10:29 PM
RFSchaller RFSchaller is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Even if the rules change those of us flying are stuck with Max gross weight specified when we applied for our airworthiness certificates.
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  #5  
Old 05-18-2021, 11:38 PM
seagull seagull is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: San Bernardino
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RFSchaller View Post
Even if the rules change those of us flying are stuck with Max gross weight specified when we applied for our airworthiness certificates.
.
It’s not a big deal to get a new airworthiness certificate.
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  #6  
Old 05-19-2021, 01:45 AM
mturnerb mturnerb is online now
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Ponte Vedra, FL
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Purely speculative thoughts:

Even if the airframe could handle higher gross weight, and Van's made a decision to move in that direction, there are still challenges to effectively adding useful weight:

- engine/prop combo performance at higher weight
- the cost of changing engine / prop to achieve adequate/acceptable performance at the higher weight
- the effect of higher weight, different engine/prop, required changes in fuel capacity on CG limits
- reduced utility (space) with increased fuel capacity. Wing redesign not practical to add fuel capacity.

Bottom line - my guess would be that Van's would go another direction to accommodate significant changes in LSA weight limits, either changing the RV-12 design substantially, clean-sheet design, or modification of existing designs (9/9A, 14/14A?). The possible exception being a very modest (say 1350 lbs) increase in RV-12/12is gross weight if the cost to do so is reasonable AND the airframe design/ safety margins/ CG envelope permit. That small change would dramatically improve the utility of the 12 IMHO.
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Last edited by mturnerb : 05-19-2021 at 05:14 AM.
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  #7  
Old 05-19-2021, 09:50 AM
SkyDreams09 SkyDreams09 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Chambersburg
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You are correct, even a small 30-50lb increase changes it for me. Especially with the 4-gallon unusable fuel.

one of my big questions is what will be the resale value of 1320# gross weight aircraft when 2000# plus LSA are available? Is there still a market? It has to have an impact.
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  #8  
Old 05-19-2021, 10:06 AM
BlndRvtr BlndRvtr is offline
 
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Location: NE Where
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDreams09 View Post
one of my big questions is what will be the resale value of 1320# gross weight aircraft when 2000# plus LSA are available? Is there still a market? It has to have an impact.
Was there a noticeable decrease in LSA sales or values when Basic Med (BM) became available? I'm sure there were folks flying under Light Sport rules prior to BM that went BM if possible when that option opened up. Sure opened up the choice of airplanes one could fly.

George
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  #9  
Old 05-19-2021, 10:16 AM
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Stitch462 Stitch462 is offline
 
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Location: Mead, WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDreams09 View Post
You are correct, even a small 30-50lb increase changes it for me. Especially with the 4-gallon unusable fuel.

one of my big questions is what will be the resale value of 1320# gross weight aircraft when 2000# plus LSA are available? Is there still a market? It has to have an impact.
On the other hand, if the "street value" of a Legacy RV-12 drops, it would give some of the more financially challenged buyers a chance to get into the game without having to resort to a 40+ year old C-150 with something north of 7K hours and a billion really hard student landings on it. While your mileage may vary, my mission set being local day VFR ice cream/pancake runs or MAYBE the one-time pilgrimage to OSH, such an airplane would suit me fine. I for one would opt in on such a -12 if finances allowed.
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  #10  
Old 05-19-2021, 11:08 AM
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BobbyLucas BobbyLucas is offline
 
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Location: Belleville, MI
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You may want to read this recent article: "Spring 2021 Update on FAAs Proposed New Regulation for Light-Sport Aircraft & Light Personal Aircraft"

https://bydanjohnson.com/spring-2021...onal-aircraft/

LSA may not change as much as we hoped.
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