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Rotax 912S Configurations?

RudiGreyling

RudiGreyling

Well Known Member
Gents,

I can get a 2nd hand 2007 model Rotax 912S 100HP with 200hours on from a ultrlight trike that was involved in an accident at a good price. It would be verified airworthy by a Rotax dealership. We know these are very hard to come by 2nd hand, so I don't want to miss the oppertunity, and cash saving.

My question to the 912 'experts' are this:
1) Are there different 912S 100HP models, mounting configuration, prop hubs and gearbox ratios available? (I would hate to buy something then it doesn't fit the RV12 for some reason, but through my limited research it seems all them 912S are standard?)

Thanks in advance.

Kind Regards
Rudi
 
Good 2nd hand 912's are hard to come by. I have been keeping my eyes open. The only hitch is that I have not completely decided on going EAB. You don't have to worry about that.
 
I had a 912S on my previous plane. They are all standardized - no choices to make on gearbox etc. Love this engine.

Lockwood Aviation in Sebring, FL is a distributor for the engine as well as handling repairs/overhauls - they were always very helpful to me in answering questions if you want to follow up on this.

erich
 
erich weaver said:
I had a 912S on my previous plane. They are all standardized - no choices to make on gearbox etc. Love this engine.

Lockwood Aviation in Sebring, FL is a distributor for the engine as well as handling repairs/overhauls - they were always very helpful to me in answering questions if you want to follow up on this.

erich
Click to expand...

This is not true.
Their are different models (slipper clutch, non-slipper clutch).
There is also the issue of whether the engine is equiped with parts that make it ASTM compliant. It is not an issue in regards to building as an E-LSA because you wouldn't be able to certify as that if the engine wasn't purchased form Van's, but the issue is its compatibilty with the rest of the kit (Powerplant kit specifically). You could have issues related to being able to just mount the engine and use all of the kit parts (hoses, etc) while following the instructions.
 
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rvbuilder2002 said:
This is not true.
Their are different models (slipper clutch, non-slipper clutch).
There is also the issue of whether the engine is equiped with parts that make it ASTM compliant. It is not an issue in regards to building as an E-LSA because you wouldn't be able to certify as that if the engine wasn't purchased form Van's, but the issue is its compatibilty with the rest of the kit (Powerplant kit specifically). You could have issues related to being able to just mount the engine and use all of the kit parts (hoses, etc) while following the instructions.
Click to expand...

It has been several years since I sold my 912S equipped plane, but this is not consistent with my experience. There was a service bulletin regarding the clutch that had to be complied with at one point, but I was never given a CHOICE about which clutch I wanted when I purchased my engine.

Not sure what ASTM has to do with anything. Perhaps you are referring to the "certified" version of the 912S. Granted, that IS a choice one can make, but I was told that there was no real difference - it was just more paperwork for more money.

Regardless, for a purchase like this, dont trust me or anyone else - call Lockwood or one of the other distributors and get the story straight from them. Let us know what you find out - I have no problem with eating crow if I am wrong

best regards
erich
 
erich weaver said:
Not sure what ASTM has to do with anything. Perhaps you are referring to the "certified" version of the 912S. Granted, that IS a choice one can make, but I was told that there was no real difference - it was just more paperwork for more money.
Click to expand...

A couple of examples of an ASTM compliant 912ULS...
A non ASTM compliant engine has oil line fittings on the engine and oil tank that use slip on hoses with screw clamps / The ASTM version has fittings on the engine, oil tank and oil cooler that are compatible with standard aircraft hoses and ends and fire sleeved oil hoses are used.

A non ASTM compliant engine has hose barbs on the carbs and fuel pump for rubber fuel hose and screw clamps / The ASTM version uses fuel hose from a distribution manifold that integrates to the fuel return line designed into the RV-12, with integral fire sleeve to the carbs, and the fuel lines for the fuel pump are fire sleeved and compatible with standard aircraft AN fittings (no screw clamps used).

Like I said before...none of this may seem like an issue for someone building E-AB but the power plant kit is designed around the ASTM engine. All hoses, etc. will be supplied with the intent that that is the engine being used. A builder will probably find it cost prohibitive to try and convert an engine to work with the power plant kit related parts...example... an oil tank with the proper hose style (UNF) fittings is over $500. This would be the first of many parts that someone would have to purchase to use the parts supplied in the powerplant kit.
 
Thanks for the info, keep it coming:

This is what I received from Ken at Vans, but I don't know yet what it means, i need to do more research to see if the 2nd hand one I am after will work.

The RV-12 engine is the ASTM F 2339 compliant version of the Rotax 912 ULS 2. The RV-12 installation requires use of the straight oil fitting on the bottom of the crankcase.
Click to expand...
 
Rotax ASTM Compliance

I have checked the statements made on this thread with the UK Rotax distributor. Their response is below:

"According to the Rotax website

www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com

under click 'company ' click 'certificates'

you will find that the 912 ULS complies with ASTM standards.

The different oil and fuel hoses etc. may be necessary for some US approval, but are not normally supplied here.

I think you will find these parts are available from Rotax (see Parts List - IPC) on the CD supplied with your engine or on the Rotax website.

In any case, if you wanted to change, the oil tank does not need to be changed, just the fittings."

It would appear to me that all Rotax 912's after the serial nos shown on the certificate are ASTM compliant.

Jim D
 
Jamesey said:
I have checked the statements made on this thread with the UK Rotax distributor. Their response is below:

"According to the Rotax website

www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com

under click 'company ' click 'certificates'

you will find that the 912 ULS complies with ASTM standards.

The different oil and fuel hoses etc. may be necessary for some US approval, but are not normally supplied here.

I think you will find these parts are available from Rotax (see Parts List - IPC) on the CD supplied with your engine or on the Rotax website.

In any case, if you wanted to change, the oil tank does not need to be changed, just the fittings."

It would appear to me that all Rotax 912's after the serial nos shown on the certificate are ASTM compliant.

Jim D
Click to expand...

I don't disagree that if you purchase a new 912ULS today that it will meet ASTM standards and will have a sticker on it saying that it does.

This thread was about purchasing a used engine.
My original point was that depending on the vintage of that used engine it would require purchasing other parts (including a different oil tank) to make it work with Van's power plant kit.

Your statement about the oil tank is wrong. The non ASTM tank does have replacable fittings. The new tank has the flared hose end fittings welded on. Their are no fittings that I am aware of that can be added to an older tank to adapt to aircraft hoses. I am in need of making the change for one engine right now, and the U.S. Rotax distributer is supplying me with a new oil tank top (even though it is not available for purchase as a separate part.

If you don't believe me, I guess we will have to wait until someone buys a pre-ASTM, used engine, hopefully they will post here what there experience is in adapting it to work with a RV-12 powerplant kit.
 
Serial number to verify ASTM engine?

Thanks for the info,

Is there a way to check via serial number if it is PRE or POST standard 912 ASTM standard issued engine?

OR

Is there one or two specific clues to point us in the correct direction on the ASTM engines? Is the oil tank connection the only one?

Regards
Rudi
 
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RudiGreyling said:
Thanks for the info,

Is there a way to check via serial number if it is PRE or POST standard 912 ASTM standard issued engine?

OR

Is there one or two specific clues to point us in the correct direction on the ASTM engines? Is the oil tank connection the only one?

Regards
Rudi
Click to expand...

rvbuilder2002 said:
I don't disagree that if you purchase a new 912ULS today that it will meet ASTM standards and will have a sticker on it saying that it does.
Click to expand...

Extra words added to meet minimum requirement for a post
 
A sticker?

Hmm OK where is the sticker to be found?

Don't like to rely on a sticker on a used motor, hope it is still there :D

Serial number or another method would be better. :confused:
 
ASTM 912 Engines

Rudi,

If you go to my earlier post above, click on the rotax website and look up the ASTM certificate it states the engine nos from which the ASTM certificate applied. If the engine has a number before these it will not be covered by the ASTM certificate.

Jim D
 
Jamesey said:
Rudi,

If you go to my earlier post above, click on the rotax website and look up the ASTM certificate it states the engine nos from which the ASTM certificate applied. If the engine has a number before these it will not be covered by the ASTM certificate.

Jim D
Click to expand...

Thanks JIM exactly what I was looking for...

Here is the direct link for other's reference
http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com/downloadarea/certificate/ASTM_ComplianceStatement_912_914.pdf

I am going to inspect the engine on Sunday and will report what I find here.
 
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912ULS Oil Fittings

Does anyone know of a supplier for Oil Cooler Nipples, 956-641, Oil Pump Inlet Nipple and Oil Return Nipple, 956-650 other than Lockwood or Leading Edge. The fittings are $69 a piece from them. My engine has the old style barbed fittings and I would like to go with AN hoses and fittings.
Gerry Chancey
Repeat Builder
VAF 172
 
OIL RETURN NIPPLE

I'm helping out a neighbor building a -12. He cannot locate his oil return nipple to replace the banjo fitting the engine comes with. Does anyone remember where it was packed so he could look there?
 
jlfernan said:
I'm helping out a neighbor building a -12. He cannot locate his oil return nipple to replace the banjo fitting the engine comes with. Does anyone remember where it was packed so he could look there?
Click to expand...

I believe it is in the little cardboard box that contains the voltage regulator and other misc small parts.
 
rvbuilder2002 said:
This is not true.
Their are different models (slipper clutch, non-slipper clutch).
There is also the issue of whether the engine is equiped with parts that make it ASTM compliant. It is not an issue in regards to building as an E-LSA because you wouldn't be able to certify as that if the engine wasn't purchased form Van's, but the issue is its compatibilty with the rest of the kit (Powerplant kit specifically). You could have issues related to being able to just mount the engine and use all of the kit parts (hoses, etc) while following the instructions.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure all "S" models have the slipper clutch. If it is only 5 years old it definitely does.
 
Geico266 said:
Pretty sure all "S" models have the slipper clutch. If it is only 5 years old it definitely does.
Click to expand...

I believe the slipper clutch has been standard on the S models for a while now, but I don't think it was when Vans' was building the first prototype RV-12 (Note, the post you quoted me from is more than 4 years old).
Anyway, the original context of my post (at that time) was that purchasing an engine from other sources (used, new/old stock, etc), you could end up with an engine that would require a considerable amount of cash to make it compatible with the RV-12, which could quickly evaporate any perceived savings from purchasing it elsewhere.
 
rvbuilder2002 said:
I believe the slipper clutch has been standard on the S models for a while now, but I don't think it was when Vans' was building the first prototype RV-12 (Note, the post you quoted me from is more than 4 years old).
Anyway, the original context of my post (at that time) was that purchasing an engine from other sources (used, new/old stock, etc), you could end up with an engine that would require a considerable amount of cash to make it compatible with the RV-12, which could quickly evaporate any perceived savings from purchasing it elsewhere.
Click to expand...

Plus the plane would be an automatic Experimental verses and E-LSA
 
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