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RV-12 is now available!

Phyrcooler

Phyrcooler

Well Known Member
Just received an email from Van's. It included new literature with the fully painted RED RV-12 on it, as well as the order form. Currently the wing is available. $5480.00. I'll post more when I can.

Awesome! :D

DJ
 
I Got Mine!

I got mine! :D Let the journey begin! I ordered my wing kit by fax a few minutes ago. I couldn't wait till tomorrow, when I go to Sun 'n Fun. I still plan on taking lots and lots of pictures and will post them all as soon as I get home.

Here's hoping it'll be an easy kit to assemble. :)
 
Cost range about as expected

Although they haven't finalized the cost, their estimate sans paint, upholstery, and additional equipment options is $50k to $55k. Not too far off my estimate made in October:

"... that seems to suggests a complete RV-12 kit could in theory be sold for around US$50,000 (+/-$3000) range, depending on instruments."

From http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?p=161603&post161603

I blame the weak dollar - which increased the cost of the engine - for my estimate being a tad low. ;)
 
Although they haven't finalized the cost, their estimate sans paint, upholstery, and additional equipment options is $50k to $55k. Not too far off my estimate made in October
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Jim (or anyone), can you tell me where you saw their estimated costs. I'm having a hard time finding it. Thanks.
 
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N941WR said:
More than I have in my -9. :(
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That's going to be the problem. A year ago when the -12 was going to be $40K it held a lot of promise (for me at least), but now that it's in the mid $50's it's going to be a lot harder to justify over a nice O-235/290 powered -9a. Unless of course you're only operating on a Sport Pilot license, but for us who were looking for a low cost entry level RV, the -12s price is too close to the rest of the lineup.
 
Mike_ExpressCT said:
That's going to be the problem. A year ago when the -12 was going to be $40K it held a lot of promise (for me at least), but now that it's in the mid $50's it's going to be a lot harder to justify over a nice O-235/290 powered -9a. Unless of course you're only operating on a Sport Pilot license, but for us who were looking for a low cost entry level RV, the -12s price is too close to the rest of the lineup.
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Remember that their figure of $50k is for an E-LSA, which might be much more than 51% complete. That may or may not be important to you.

I agree that the -9 with an O-235 is probably a better plane for those who don't need a LSA, except that the -12 will be a better STOL airplane than a light/simple -9 (mostly from better power loading).

TODR
 
Mike_ExpressCT said:
That's going to be the problem. A year ago when the -12 was going to be $40K it held a lot of promise (for me at least), but now that it's in the mid $50's it's going to be a lot harder to justify over a nice O-235/290 powered -9a.
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Mike,

One nice thing about the -12 is the removable wings. One of our chapter members has a Europa and when the time comes for his condition inspection, he pulls the wings off an takes it home. That has to be worth something!
 
I just faxed in my order for the RV-12 wing kit.

It is more expensive than I had hoped for, but Sport Pilot is my only option right now.
 
# of RV-12's sold so far

I just talked to the factory to confirm my order, and they said 28 have been ordered so far (I don't know if this includes any from S&F).
 
RV-12

There four Wing Kit buyers ahead of me at 7:45AM. Vans stated these orders would not be turned in until they returned from SNF. However some faxed theirs to Vans from SNF rather than wait till next week.
I took a Demo Ride in the Twelve today (yellow One). I was pleased with the flight characteristics. Overall it seems like a good airplane. I ordered a wing kit to. I wouldn't say it flies as good as my Nine, but better than the Six I had. It is slow compared the the other RVs, 110 knots. It is a great airplane for elders who are concerned with physicals.
Gerry
RV-9, N92GC
J-3 Cud, NC88583
 
Mike_ExpressCT said:
That's going to be the problem. A year ago when the -12 was going to be $40K it held a lot of promise (for me at least), but now that it's in the mid $50's it's going to be a lot harder to justify over a nice O-235/290 powered -9a. Unless of course you're only operating on a Sport Pilot license, but for us who were looking for a low cost entry level RV, the -12s price is too close to the rest of the lineup.
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One issue that I'm really interested in is build time, maybe more so than price.

This:
We are conservatively estimating that the average builder will spend about 600-900 hours to complete an un-painted RV-12.​

Vs. this:
As a rough approximation, based on builder reports we estimate 2000-2200 hours of work will complete an RV-3, or RV-4 from the Standard Kit. The more highly pre-fabricated RV-7/7A, RV-8/8A and RV-9/9A Standard Kits take about 400 hours less.​

So, a possible 1000 hours saved. That's a lot of hours...

--Bill
 
Mike_ExpressCT said:
That's going to be the problem. A year ago when the -12 was going to be $40K it held a lot of promise (for me at least), but now that it's in the mid $50's it's going to be a lot harder to justify over a nice O-235/290 powered -9a. Unless of course you're only operating on a Sport Pilot license, but for us who were looking for a low cost entry level RV, the -12s price is too close to the rest of the lineup.
Click to expand...

I agree. I don't blame Van's for the various circumstances that brought this about but the final pricing is as you say very close to all the other models. One positive factor mentioned elsewhere in this thread is that is should take significantly less hours to build than the others and if time is money that represents a tangible savings.

Still for $55K you could build another model RV and get more of everything, speed, utility, value, etc. Also for $55K there are plenty of real nice Pipers or Cessnas available that are as fast as the 12 and have a lot more utility in payload and range.

So, if you want a premium LSA the 12 makes sense but for the private pilot there are a lot more options in this price range.

Perhaps in time there are some potential factors that will reduce the cost of the 12. Reaching EAB status some day will open up options for others to develop a cheaper engine option. Perhaps the $ will recover some day and bring the price of the rotax back down. With EAB the builder will have options to thift the panel as well.

I'm waiting to Oshkosh to make my final descision. Getting some clearer understanding of the EAB status will be key to my final decision.

One consolation. When I informed my wife of the estimated price she commented "that's not bad!"

As a "mid 50's" private pilot I have to weigh my options again and determine if the RV-12 meets my value quotient.

Congratulations non the less to Vans for another successful design!

Frank
 
It's about build time too...

While it is true that you can build a low cost RV-9 for less than the cost of an E-LSA RV-12? it isn?t as simple as that. For some, LSA is their only option. For me, I have a PPL, but like Bill? build time is what is important. So, my option then becomes RV-9 quick-build vs. the RV-12. Thus the comparative cost of the -9 goes up. I had kind of planned on a Dynon D-180? so that would be a wash. I think that the Spinner to Tail package, with complete instructions will mean that I can complete an RV-12 in about 2 years. At the same rate of construction? and more variables/more to figure out in the panel/FWF in a -9 ? I am guessing it would take me 4 years to do a quickbuild -9. You know? that last 10% that takes forever?! From what I know about their intended completeness with this -12 kit? I think it is the perfect ?starter kit? for beginners like me.

If you have a PPL/current Medical? there is no doubt you can build an inexpensive -9. (See the new Kitplanes issue) Get an inexpensive used motor, a few steam gauges? simple radio/transponder, and you can have a great VFR 2-seater. But an apples to apples comparison of 9 vs. 12 using a NEW motor, Dynon D-180, the same Garmin GPS/Radio/Transponder, along with quickbuild options for the 9, and the RV-12 is pretty good. Add in the huge factor of build time? and I am almost set on the -12 as my first project.

It is unfortunate that the cost of the Rotax has gone up. To fulfill the needs of those truly looking for a low cost flyer, I honestly think that it would behoove Vans to come up with a ?low cost? version. Replace the fancy panel with a couple steam gauges, or MGL instruments, Icom A200 radio, a less expensive Transponder and let the builder use a handheld GPS like the great Lowrance units. I think you could cut 5 thousand or more out.

Well? working on the garage/side yard project to get ready. Discussing tools, compressors and workbenches with the wife. (She likes the big roll-a-way tool chest at Costco. She?s an organization freak? said lovingly of course!) ;) DJ
 
Ditto, build time AND fuel costs i.e. operating costs.

I have an open cockpit ultralight, and my rv7 will be done this year, BUT I am also seriusly considering to build a 12 as well...WHY?

I like building, but don't want to invest several many years in another airplane.

In addition if you just want to go for an hour's flight just to get into the air and rid yourself of work stress, the 12 would be much cheaper on gas compared to my RV7. But it would never beat the RV7 for going places!

That is if, if you like me and you want a 2nd airplane and like building.

I'm thinking I can always sell the 12 and at least get my money back if I don't like it or find it too expensive to own 2 planes.

Regards
Rudi
 
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I want to build -12 because to get in touch with two things:

1. building an airplane
2. owning an airplane

If I had all resources (time and money), I'd probably have a -7 for fun and a -10 for traveling with family and friends. But I don't have.

So, -12 is my way to enter this world. I have commercial pilot and IFR license, but I've never taken care of an aircraft.

I live in Brazil, and regulations are different. There are just two cattegories of non-certified airplane: ultralight (limitations of stall speed, gross weight, seats) and experimental that is anything uncertified that can fly and isn't an ultralight. That's why I'm not concerned about Van's package. I'll build it using the most cost-benefit relation as possible.

Today, my configuration would be:

Engine: Jabiru 3300
Propeller: Airmaster eletric constant speed
Interior: All leather, made by automotive manufacturer
Avionics: Odyssey or Dinon (D-100+D120), GTX 327, Garmin 296, SL-30

I think I will spend about 60K and will have a good starter airplane.
 
Update on RV-12 wing sales

Thought some of you might be interested in an update on RV-12 wing kit sales. I placed an order shortly after they opened this morning. They were up to the low 40's at that time. They also indicated that the 4-6 week lead time listed on the website was applicable to the first 25 kits and beyond that, they were expecting 6-8 weeks or perhaps more.
 
Rudi ... Please Build an RV-12!

RudiGreyling said:
Ditto, build time AND fuel costs i.e. operating costs.

I have an open cockpit ultralight, and my rv7 will be done this year, BUT I am also seriusly considering to build a 12 as well...WHY?

I like building, but don't want to invest several many years in another airplane.

In addition if you just want to go for an hour's flight just to get into the air and rid yourself of work stress, the 12 would be much cheaper on gas compared to my RV7. But it would never beat the RV7 for going places!

That is if, if you like me and you want a 2nd airplane and like building.

I'm thinking I can always sell the 12 and at least get my money back if I don't like it or find it too expensive to own 2 planes.

Regards
Rudi
Click to expand...

Rudi ... please do build an RV-12 ... and please be sure to document that RV-12 build with the same now famous "slow stop animation" you used on your RV-7. I (we) could use that video as an instruction manual to build my (our) RV -12. Your building videos are classics.


(after you view that video be sure to click on more from:greylingr on same you tube page )

[URL="http://www.RudiGreyling.com/rv7.html"]http://www.RudiGreyling.com/rv7.html[/URL]

Thanks again, Rudi, for those great videos!
 
Hi Jerry,

Thanks for the kind compliments. :p I need to get my RV7 in the air first, so I guess you'll have to wait for your instructional video :D

Thank YOU for the great coverage of the RV12 you give us so far!!!

Kind Regards
Rudi

PS: Best place to see ALL my videos is from my website, since not everything is hosted on YouTube. Lately the quality of youtube is getting to me, there are better places to host videos now. Isn't competition great? We the consumer wins!
 
Based on the interview that Van did with EAA (see Vansairforce home page for the link) it looks like the FAA is moving along on the revised 51% rules. Van always approaches these things with "guarded optimism" (his words) but the RV-7 kit looks like it passed the new rules the FAA are considering. That means things like pre-assembled spars, preformed ribs, etc should be ok on future kits as well.

As Van suggested they just won't know until the final rules are published but its encouraging to think the RV-12 could meet the new rules and reach E-AB status this year. It's also encouraging that the FAA thinks so highly of Vans Aircraft to use them as a benchmark to draft the new rules. We owe a lot more to Van than just designing nice airplanes, he's defining our sport and industry.

Frank
 
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