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RV-12 N412RV Has Been Rolled Out To The Public.

Phyrcooler said:
They mention in the roll-out announcement that they did add a stall-warning vane in the wing that automatically plugged in when the wing was installed. I suppose it would be possible for a similar hook-up to be done for a wing mounted Dynon pitot. Interesting to see if Van's does it on the S-LSA or if it is something individuals would have to do on their own if building as an E-AB.

DJ
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The stall warning vane is a simple mechanical device. I personally think constantly plugging/unplugging your vital pitot-static system is perhaps not the best of ideas...

--Bill
 
bigbill25 said:
The stall warning vane is a simple mechanical device. I personally think constantly plugging/unplugging your vital pitot-static system is perhaps not the best of ideas...

--Bill
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I'm not an engineer... so I don't know what sort of trick quick-connect couplers could be used to accomplish this. I've seen some pretty amazing stuff in these RV's.

You may be absolutely right... but then again... I originally had severe second thoughts when I heard that you took the WINGS on and off!! You want to talk vital parts?! :eek: :D LOL

DJ

(Edit: I have no problems with the wing removal idea now!)
 
where is it?

Ok I give up, I've studied the pic's and the videos and dont see a pitot tube anywhere on 412RV's wings. didn't look at 912 tho..:confused:
 
gblwy said:
What's the hole in the centre of the spinner? Is it the pitot tube?

Cheers...Keith
Click to expand...

It is a pitot tube. There is a closeup photo of it and a short mention of it in an article on the RV-12 in the November 2007 issue of Kitplanes magazine.

It seems that at high angle of attack the nose pitot was yielding speed numbers much too low, so the tube was beveled. That allegedly corrected the problem.
 
JimLogajan said:
It is a pitot tube. There is a closeup photo of it and a short mention of it in an article on the RV-12 in the November 2007 issue of Kitplanes magazine.

It seems that at high angle of attack the nose pitot was yielding speed numbers much too low, so the tube was beveled. That allegedly corrected the problem.
Click to expand...

I mis-read it the first time I thought it said "reading mach numbers too low." I thought to myself, well of course it read mach numbers much too low! It is only a 100 horse Rotax after all.
 
I'm guessing the details will come out soon.
For example, how do the flaps work and where
is the control. I assume it's manual as there
doesn't seem to be a fuse or switch showing
on the panel.

Tom
 
Van needs a digital camera

I wish someone at Van's Aircraft would get a "digital camera" with some real resolution and take a couple dozen pictures of the RV-12 and post them on the factory website; while they're at it how about a new "digital video camera" too. :)

Like most of you, I've been squinting at and enlarging all the pictures made available to us of the RV-12 ... :(

Before they run out and buy all that new photographic equipment and take those couple of dozen high quality pictures, I hope they finish the red paint job!

Not complaining though ... still going to buy one on April 8th. at Sun 'n Fun. :D
 
I'm still trying to figure out the rudder pedals and brakes. Sure don't look like normal rudder pedals to me.:confused:
 
Parking brake?

What is the silver/white handle that extends past the bottom of the right side of the panel? A parking brake? Flaps?


-Chase
 
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Rabidsnipe said:
What is the silver/white handle that extends past the bottom of the right side of the panel? A parking brake? Flaps?


-Chase
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Looks like a canopy jettison to me. And Harold, I'm with you on the brakes. Almost looks like they're not connected to the rudder pedals?
 
bigbill25 said:
So, is this what the mystery Autopilot switch and fuse are for:

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=28172

As for the brakes, it looks like the toe unit swivels forward and activates the hydraulic lines...

--Bill
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I agree with Bill on the toe brakes. From what I can tell, pushing on the toe brake rotates the assembly at the bottom. The brake cylinder is mounted on a tab, and the rotating action pushes it upwards against the rod.

What is the little recessed push-button switch above the fuse panel? It looks like it has it's own fuse which has tape on it.

DJ
 
I'm thinking of heading down to Van's this week to look at the -12 and get some better pictures. Is there anything special that people want me to look at/take pictures of?

--Bill
 
EVERYTHING!!

Bill - anything they'll let you shoot... take a picture of! :D I'd do it myself... but according to Google Maps, I am 1066 miles and 16 hours 14 minutes of driving time away! :p So, if they'll let you... shoot away. Then set up a Picassa web site that we all can look at/download from! That would be awesome! Do you need some Gas/Lunch money? :)

More seriously... yes everything... but the more detail on the "behind the scenes" stuff the better. IE: under/behind the panel, engine/mount from all sides... etc. Sooner or later I'll be building, so the more shots we can all get out there, the more reference points we'll all have.

DJ
 
Phot OP

bigbill25 said:
I'm thinking of heading down to Van's this week to look at the -12 and get some better pictures. Is there anything special that people want me to look at/take pictures of?

--Bill
Click to expand...

Heres my wish list for more photos:

Finish details: Wing tips, rudder tips, stabilator ends, etc

Stall vane on wing.

Seats

Behind the seats including: battery location, wing attachment, control mixer for flaperons, Flap handle, baggage compartment.

Any/all gas tank details: Filler, vent, belly drain?, fuel pump, sight glass for checking fill level, attachment to fuselage, etc

Thanks for asking and have fun getting up close and personal with the 12.

Frank
 
So.... I called Van's this morning and made sure the -12 was in the hanger and I could take pictures. "Sure is!"

Drive down there (about 25 minutes) and tell someone at the front desk that I want to look at the -12. They said they would find someone. I wait a couple minutes (played with the Dynon and AFS EFIS displays) and Rob comes up to take me back. "What do you want to see?" He asks. I said the new -12. "Oh, that's in the proto shop getting painted"...

The proto shop is way off limits, so no chance of getting in there. He said it was going to finish getting painted, then put on a trailer for Sun 'n Fun (hasn't flown off the hours yet). So, you Sun 'n Fun people will get the first closeup look... You better take pictures!

--Bill
 
Sun 'n Fun

As previously stated, I'm planning on being at the Sun 'n Fun Tuesday, April 8th. to buy an RV-12 ... or at least any part of it they may be selling. Gonna take SEVERAL + + high resolution pictures of everything 12 ... inside, outside, up, down, close up, underneath ... every square inch, pictures and videos. They'll all be posted that Tuesday evening.

Maybe we'll all get lucky and Van will post some additional pictures sooner, in the next day or so. Since we've never seen it with a completed paint job, a few more pictures would be nice. :) I have to believe someone from the factory must monitor VAF forums ... hmmmm ... unfortunately if they do, that hasn't made much difference in the past. :(

We've already been waiting two years. Two more days, or two more weeks "should" be a piece of cake for us.

Bill (bigbill25), thanks for the attempt at additional pictures ... I for one was really looking forward to 'em ... would have been nice.
 
bigbill25 said:
The proto shop is way off limits, so no chance of getting in there. --Bill
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Yeah... they're busy in there working on my "2+2/Stretch-9" and "RV-4 based LSA High-wing Parasol" which I'll be building as planes number 2 and 3 after my RV-12. :D

Thank you for your efforts. I was looking forward to a bunch more pictures. We'll have to wait for Jerry to post some next week from S-n-F.

DJ
 
unnamed source

I spoke to a unnamed source at Vans today, Wing kits will be for sale at SnF
and on the web April 8 with the rest of the kit to come, in a short period of time ( Months). Cost will be around a thousand less than current wing kits?
( your guess is as good as mine as to which kit ). I've been working on a 7a
for almost 8 years, more off than on and still need a finish kit. For me, I want to buy the whole kit in one shot, in the first price year. Pay one shipping charge, I wont qualify for the repeat offender discount as I have not finished the first plane. Hanger rent in the NE is expensive, and 20 gal of mo gas is more palatable than 42gal of 100LL, My guess is by OSH I will be ready to buy
 
Cost

"Cost will be around a thousand less than current wing kits?"

Most of the prepunched wing kits are around $6K + so it looks like the RV-12 wing is coming in around $5K and some change.

Following that same economy of scale a complete (slow build) kit may fall in the $15K - $17K range which makes sense.

If your a Private Pilot with a current medical then any of the other RV's will represent more value when finished so pricing the LSA a couple thousand cheaper would put it in the right ballpark.

As excited as I am about this project I too am going to wait for the dust to settle and see what Oshkosh brings. I'm also hoping for clarity on the EAB status by then.

Thanks for another tidbit of info. As Paul Harvey would say, stand by for the rest of the story. Sun and Fun should open the floodgates for more info.

Frank
 
Question for Mel...

I read all the posts and as I understand it the -12 will need to be built with avionics Van's chooses to use. What happens when these get replaced with newer units (Garmin, etc) and someone has a failure and needs to replace it. Will Van's need to re-certify and add new units as time goes on? Will there be a more general guideline of what can be used?

Thanks, Joe
 
azav8or said:
What happens when these get replaced with newer units (Garmin, etc) and someone has a failure and needs to replace it. Will Van's need to re-certify and add new units as time goes on? Will there be a more general guideline of what can be used?

Thanks, Joe
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Van's is the manufacturer. He can do whatever he wants so long as it meets ASTM standards for LSA. The manufacturer must approve any changes that you want to make.
 
Mel--
Any idea if the FAA is thinking of revising the EAB rule? I had heard that other manufactuers were complaining of the new interpretation, but haven't seen anything on it come out of Washington.

Well, that's not too surprising...but any info you may have heard via the grapevine would be helpful!
 
Eagleflip said:
Mel--
Any idea if the FAA is thinking of revising the EAB rule? I had heard that other manufacturers were complaining of the new interpretation, but haven't seen anything on it come out of Washington.
Click to expand...
Even if I did know anything, I would not be at liberty to say.
It will probably be a while before anything comes out.
 
rmartingt said:
So there's no "standard amateur built" option (like current RVs)?
Click to expand...

You can build it any way you want and try to get it certified as E-AB (Experimental, Amateur Built). The current issue with that is no one knows what the new 51% rules will be. So, if you build it, and the new rules compute the RV-12 to be more than the "new" 51% rule, you would have an expensive paper weight. Right now, the only safe thing to do is build to Van's specs toward E-LSA approval, where there is no 51% rule, until this mess gets figured out...

--Bill
 
And, if I have read the previous posts correctly, if I build it according to the E-LSA approval, the aircraft can not differ from Van's plans one bit...correct?

If so, ay chihuahua! I'll do that if I must, but I would really like to see the rule change--after all, even an RV-12 may be able to eke out a little more performance than 120 knots with a smartly build "widgettron" attached! (ok, I made that up...) But the sentiment remains!
 
rhill said:
I spoke to a unnamed source at Vans today, Wing kits will be for sale at SnF
and on the web April 8 with the rest of the kit to come,
Click to expand...

Hmmmmmm....wonder why Vans will release the wing kit, but not the tail kit. I had planned on purchasing the tail kit first.
 
Alan Gilmore said:
Hmmmmmm....wonder why Vans will release the wing kit, but not the tail kit. I had planned on purchasing the tail kit first.
Click to expand...

If I were to guess, it's because the tail will build so fast they're just going to make the tail part of the fuselage kit. That way, there could only be 3 kits instead of the standard 4 (wings first, fuse, and finish/FWF).

Eagleflip-from what I understand (correct me if I'm wrong here Mel or anyone), but the plane must be built as an exact copy for inital certification (the only changes allowed are what Van's puts in writing). Once the airplane is certified, you can make any changes you want as long as the airplane still meets LSA qualifications. So things like an autopilot, lights, more radios would be fine, but items such as speed fairings and changing the pitch of the prop (which will make it cruise faster) won't be an option unless you can prove those changes still keep the airplane within LSA parameters.
 
And, to beat the dead horse a bit more, as Mel has said once the aircraft is out of LSA parameters, it cannot be accepted back into compliance. Ever. Ugh!

I'm hopeful that the EAB rules will be resolved in support of the RV-12.
 
This waiting for the RV-12 is killing me.

My shop is ready. The $ has been found. Every evening feels like December 24th did when I was a kid. :p

Is anyone else planning on ordering on April 8?
 
RV-12

I plan on taking a Demo Flight at SNF Tuesday. If the RV-12 flies as good as my Nine I will order a Wing Kit, order blanks will not be ready for printing until Monday or Tuesday according to Vans. Forms will be posted on Van's Web Site.
Gerry
RV-9 & J-3 Cub
 
Don't know if demo flights will be conducted. The latest -12 to fly is being trailered to Florida because the time has not been flown off.
 
According to the last issue of the RVator, both -12s will be there so it may be possible to get that ride.;)
 
Rabidsnipe said:
What time do they have to fly off 412RV? Do they fly 40 for experimental? Or 5 for E-LSA?
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I think 412RV is an "Experimental" as it is still a proof of concept. Subsequent -12's will be E-LSA. I'm not positive on this so verify with Van's.
 
If I understood Mel correctly, Van will have to fly off the test hours and the builder will have to fly off 5 hours if it is E-LSA.
 
Hal-san said:
If I understood Mel correctly, Van will have to fly off the test hours and the builder will have to fly off 5 hours if it is E-LSA.
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I don't understand you comment. If Van builds an S-LSA, he must fly off a minimum of 5 hours. If you build an E-LSA, you must fly off a minimum of 5 hours. If Van or you build an amateur-built, someone will have to fly off a minimum of 40 hours.
 
Sorry Mel, I was making an assumption from posts 65 and 66 that the mfg. of the S-LSA would have had to fly much more than 5 hours to insure the reliability of the product.
 
Hal-san said:
Sorry Mel, I was making an assumption from posts 65 and 66 that the mfg. of the S-LSA would have had to fly much more than 5 hours to insure the reliability of the product.
Click to expand...
Usually the FIRST LSA will be done in R&D which will require more testing. Once the concept is proven then it goes into LSA and only requires 5 hours. Also remember this is a minimum. The designer will undoubtedly do more than the minimum testing.
 
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