thought I would share this recent experience cuz it may save someone's life. Of course I have heard of mountain waves ,saw the pictures in the pilots manual, Since I live in the mid-west it was not on the top of my list of flying concerns. OK Monday flying from C77 to Winchester VA. A tail wind like none other so I climbed to 10500 and smiled 50 to 60 knots on average ,yahoo!!! off to Grandma's house we go. Smooth flying! As I approached Winchester I could see the city so I started a let down. crossed the last ridge at 6500, at least 3000 ft above the ridge. Well, all **** broke loose just as I crossed it. Bang bang 45? roll, right, left airspeed fluctuations of 50 knts. I had the runway in sight but not sure I would get there. It settled down a bit as I got further from the ridge, but far from comfortable. I landed, even experiencing wind shear on short final. I will never forget to consider the possibility of mountain waves ever again nor should you. On self debrief and do over possibilities I would have carried full altitude to short final and come down like a helicopter in the 50 knot headwind. Just something to consider.
Van's Air Force
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Mountain Wave
- Thread starter Rdwrv4
- Start date
I flew into Winchester on Monday at 2:00pm from GA in my Bonanza. Strongest mountain waves I have ever experienced. Smooth air but at one time I lost from 9000 to 7700 at Vy before changing heading to get on the wave. We then surfed the rest of the way to Winchester. It was difficult to decend once we got there. Only had one head banger on the decent. Be careful out there.
David Paule
Well Known Member
It's worth noting that if you're in part of the wave that's above the rotor, it's often very, very smooth.
Very much unlike the rough rotor-affected wind.
Dave
Very much unlike the rough rotor-affected wind.
Dave
Its all theory until it happens to you, then it becomes very real.
While returning from Oshkosh this summer we encountered turbulence/wave/rotor activity in Wyoming to the south east of the Popo Agie Wilderness Area in Wyoming. Pretty high rocks around there.
With the auto pilot on cruising level at 14,500 we ascended very rapidly with little upset. I shut the autopilot off and tried to descend but up we went. The airspeed was eradicate fluctuating 20 - 30 knots. I figured, ride it out and keep it level get and watch the airspeed, what else can I do. After several minutes of climb there was an awful jolt. Down we went. Much faster then I would care to descend. I pulled back on the stick but down we went. Then came the bumps with an amplitude I've never experienced before. It was actually difficult to see well enough to read the details on the instruments. Trying to find somewhere nearby to divert to using Foreflight was a challenge. Reading the TPA and frequencies was difficult.
We diverted to Rock Springs which was too far away in that madness. Turned out we were in good company. Others who experienced what we did were happy to be on the ground.
I took this picture after landing at Rock Springs.
While returning from Oshkosh this summer we encountered turbulence/wave/rotor activity in Wyoming to the south east of the Popo Agie Wilderness Area in Wyoming. Pretty high rocks around there.
With the auto pilot on cruising level at 14,500 we ascended very rapidly with little upset. I shut the autopilot off and tried to descend but up we went. The airspeed was eradicate fluctuating 20 - 30 knots. I figured, ride it out and keep it level get and watch the airspeed, what else can I do. After several minutes of climb there was an awful jolt. Down we went. Much faster then I would care to descend. I pulled back on the stick but down we went. Then came the bumps with an amplitude I've never experienced before. It was actually difficult to see well enough to read the details on the instruments. Trying to find somewhere nearby to divert to using Foreflight was a challenge. Reading the TPA and frequencies was difficult.
We diverted to Rock Springs which was too far away in that madness. Turned out we were in good company. Others who experienced what we did were happy to be on the ground.
I took this picture after landing at Rock Springs.
Having flown the wave in gliders in that area, you nailed it. When the wind is out of about 300 degrees and air mass stability is right, the wave down along I-81 from north of Hagerstown, to about Harrisonburg can be quite good (for gliders). I have been to just under 18K ft along that stretch in a glider. Of course, when wave is good, the rotor can be quite challenging, even in a glider.
RONSIM
Well Known Member
Son flew in from KCRW Monday
To KCLW --- family of (4) on board his C182 ---- same experience over the mountains ---- great tail wind, smooth sailing, and a sudden dose of (to them) severe turbulence. This family has flown all over the country in the 182, and they stated this was the "scariest" experience they had ever had.
To KCLW --- family of (4) on board his C182 ---- same experience over the mountains ---- great tail wind, smooth sailing, and a sudden dose of (to them) severe turbulence. This family has flown all over the country in the 182, and they stated this was the "scariest" experience they had ever had.
Infidel
Well Known Member
Returning home this year from Triple Tree I experienced a wild ride while descending over Front Royal, just south of Winchester. It was the first time the stick-ailerons was literally jarred out of my hand. Living and flying just east of the same line of mountains that lie just west of Winchester, I've become accustomed to occasional turbulence. But when something extreme like that happens during a flight, it's humbling and helps remind me of complacency.
The last post is how I feel about it "complacency" as a pilot I should try to anticipate and understand all that I may encounter. If I don't, I have been complacent. That is our responsibility, not just for our personal safety but to help insure that all of us continue to enjoy the wonderful privilege of flying. OK off the soapbox
snopercod
Well Known Member
Turbulence Potential Forecasts
Both Foreflight and Weather Underground offer "Turbulence Potential" forecast maps which seem to be accurate. They go out 18 hrs. at many different altitudes. I definitely used those before crossing the Rockies last year and I use them here in Asheville before flying N over the mountains. I hate turbulence.
Both Foreflight and Weather Underground offer "Turbulence Potential" forecast maps which seem to be accurate. They go out 18 hrs. at many different altitudes. I definitely used those before crossing the Rockies last year and I use them here in Asheville before flying N over the mountains. I hate turbulence.
rzbill
Well Known Member
I was in that same batch of wind Monday AM but a bit further south than you. Just like the instructional images posted earlier in the thread, Asheville valley and the eastern mountain ridge were both smooth as glass. I ran through the trio of turbulence zones between that ridge and Hickory. Its normal to have some turbulence with wind, but that day was especially strong. It was strong enough to cause me to do a PIREP for moderate turb with Atlanta ARTCC.
PilotjohnS
Well Known Member
Sailplanes
If you find wave please keep an eye out for sailplanes/gliders. Some have no electrical and may not have ads-b or transponders. With the wave they could be up at 8000 or higher.
The rvs are fast and small and are hard to see when in the glider. Thanks
If you find wave please keep an eye out for sailplanes/gliders. Some have no electrical and may not have ads-b or transponders. With the wave they could be up at 8000 or higher.
The rvs are fast and small and are hard to see when in the glider. Thanks
Ed_Wischmeyer
Well Known Member
An old rule of thumb is 1,000 feet of terrain clearance per ten knots of wind. AND, above thirty knots, don't go.
Ed
Ed
longranger
Well Known Member
az_gila
Well Known Member
Try much higher than 8,000
I've been at 17,500 over Wrightwood, CA and similar altitudes in the Owens Valley and Nevada are quite usual. The Sierras/NV altitudes can even be obtained in summer thermals without wave.
I also believe that ATC radar can't even see you as a primary target since they use a motion discrimination algorithm that defines a minimum speed for displayand the gliders are at zero ground speed.
Simply watch out for white planes with 50 ft wing spans...
danclifton
I'm New Here
I am a newbie. Is there a "rule of thumb" as to what altitude over the mountains/ridge is safe(r)? Does this depend on speed of tailwind? Or is it completely random every time?
danclifton
I'm New Here
sorry, I just saw Eds reply. I guess I have to read ALL of the replies before jumping in.
Dan
Dan
az_gila
Well Known Member
Some good tips mentioned here -
http://www.mountainflying.com/pages/mountain-flying/cross_ridges.html
One item not mentioned previously was that the preferred crossing is at 45 degrees to the ridge rather than perpendicular.
Maverick 4003
Well Known Member
Mt. Waves
When DIA (Denver) moved from original field off Quebec out E. on the plains near Watkinsville, the big boys now coming in from the E., during the Summer get slammed down real hard. H.Q. in Wyo., normally the Popo Aggie above Lander the 2nd lowest wind in the state. Interestingly, as the Indian named creek, excavated dinasours, in the Wind River Mts. Topic frequently referenced by those passing through..related to in the FBO lobby, coffee pot, fuel stop.
When DIA (Denver) moved from original field off Quebec out E. on the plains near Watkinsville, the big boys now coming in from the E., during the Summer get slammed down real hard. H.Q. in Wyo., normally the Popo Aggie above Lander the 2nd lowest wind in the state. Interestingly, as the Indian named creek, excavated dinasours, in the Wind River Mts. Topic frequently referenced by those passing through..related to in the FBO lobby, coffee pot, fuel stop.
