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I know that it is sometimes said that ?anybody? can build an RV, but really .. can I?

Lemos

Active Member
Hi all. First time poster, long time reader. Finally mustered up the courage to register and post.

So I have had a dream of building an airplane for a long time. 20+ years. But I must admit, I have nearly no mechanical skills. I can do an oil change on my car or motorcycle. I can change the air filter on them too. But that is simple stuff.

Can I really build an airplane? Nobody online can give me an answer to that of course, but is there a baseline mechanical ability that one must have to assemble an RV14 kit? Can I learn as I go? Are other builders willing to come to my workshop to help?

Folks on here make this look easy, and talk like assembling the RV14 kit is nothing but matching parts and riveting them together. It can’t be that easy.

I do not want to start a project that I will not finish. I can commit to 5 hours per day 5 days per week. I have the time to do this. I marginally have the money to do it. But, is it normal for me to sit here and wonder if I can do it, skill wise? Is it normal for me to fear assembling the airplane wrong and having it be junk and need to be scrapped?

I guess what I am concerned about is my own ability. If I believe I can do it, can I? Certainly I cannot be alone.

Oh, and if anyone has an RV-14 or RV-14A they want to sell to someone unsure of their own abilities, shoot me a message. In full or San Diego Area partnership.
 
The mechanical skills to do it are achievable by almost anybody (with time and practice). What separates successful builders from those that don't finish, IMO, is patience and perseverance. You will screw up, you will get mad at yourself, you will question yourself, and be royally frustrated at times. The question is whether you will push through that or decide it isn't worth the frustration.

The 14 kits are far easier to build than prior kits, from what I hear, but there will still be a learning curve and the associated frustrations. As they say, if you want to fly, buy a completed plane. If you want to build, go for it. As a warning, it will cost MUCH more than you plan on.

Chris
 
Welcome to VAF!

Your concern is valid for someone with limited mechanical background. A visit to a builder who is well into their project and willing to candidly discuss the process would be invaluable. Maybe your inquiry will shake loose someone near you who can offer a visit to their shop.

Many builders who have had similar concerns have attended one of the builder workshops to determine the level of skill needed. Vans has a practice kit you can build but you will need some basic aircraft tools.

Keep doing your homework and make every effort to arrange for an in-the-flesh visit to an active project. What many prospective builders don't realize if that once the basic airframe is assembled you are only about 1/2 way through the project. Instruments, avionics, engine and paint/finish are areas that require specialized skills. But those skills can be acquired by those willing to put forth the effort.

A fallback option is purchasing an RV that is already flying. Best wishes for whichever path you choose. :)
 
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Build

If it's a 20 year dream, you owe it to yourself to try. I believe anyone can.
It's just a new skill.
Start by finding a Mentor. Join the nearest EAA Chapter.
Build a practice kit (toolbox). That should gjve you a good idea if it's something you want to try. The 14 is a good choice. Easier. Better manual.
 
"Can I build a TAIL KIT?" I'd suggest asking yourself that first. If you get frustrated halfway through, you'll know....then you can sell the project and tools online for more than half of what you have in it.

Fairly cheap way to find out.

And welcome!


v/r,dr


PS: Yes, you can build a tail kit.



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.
 
Yeah you can do it. You just have to have a uncompromising approach to it. Failure is not an option, neither is quitting! If you screw a part up, then buy a new piece and do it right the next time (see tabs, trim). Grim determination is what it will take at times
 
Maybe - how badly do you want it?

My recommendations as follows. First, find someone who is building an RV and ask to visit him/her while he/she is working on his/her project. In my opinion, this is the most important piece of advice. Offer to help this person whenever he/she needs or wants you to help. You will fine out quickly if building is for you.

If you decide that you want to build, I'll bet that this person will volunteer to be a mentor. Mentors help you select tools and how to use them and are there when you need a 'boost' to your mental attitude. You will make mistakes and that is a bummer but Van's has spares of whichever part you messed up.

This beings up the $$$$$ question, can you afford to build a Van's airplane? Second question is does your wife approve of the time and $$$$$ that you need to spend? This is probably more important than learning how to use the tools. Get that squared away and don't kid yourself about an unenthusiastic answer from her. Good skills!
 
?Whether You Think You Can, or Think You Can't ... You're Right?
-Henry Ford

Many before have done it, you can too! All it takes is commitment and perseverance.
 
Yes, you can.

Building an RV is a bunch of little tasks. Can you drill holes? Can you sand/file edges smooth? Can you follow written directions? There are thousands of small tasks that anyone can do with minimal learning curve. The first rivet I ever set, or saw getting set was on the toolbox kit. They weren?t pretty, but with practice they got better. Perseverance, time and money are the biggest hurdles in my opinion. With those three things, the rest will fall in place. Most of us learned how to build during the build. Even the multiple kit builders started somewhere.
 
This beings up the $$$$$ question, can you afford to build a Van's airplane?

And how does one know? As it stands today, buying all the kits plus a new IO-390, plus a new prop, $40,000 in avionics, and $20,000 in paint, I have $20,000 to play with in my budget. I?ll add $3000 per month or more to that account during the build. This seems sufficient to me, but allows those who have gone before me to educate me.. if I end the planned build with say $70,000 to spend over and above the costs already outlined above, is that sufficient?
 
I think you have all the info/encouragement you need from the previous posts.

From the looks of your budget I think you are in a good position to build your dream.

Like you, I had wanted to build a plane for many years. Finally in my late 50's I decided I wasn't getting any younger and bit the bullet. Built a basic VFR 7 in 6 1/2 years without previous aircraft building skills.

The big thing for me was that I did not want to look back later in life and regret not trying.

Good luck with your decision.
 
I think your budget is under control. Don't forget a few thousand for specialized tools you may not own. You can always postpone the paint and just fly it "bare" for a few years, many do.
Don't neglect the other advice: If you are married or have a significant other and/or kids, make sure you get a buy-in from them. More than one build has led to a divorce.
 
As they say, if you want to fly, buy a completed plane. If you want to build, go for it. As a warning, it will cost MUCH more than you plan on.

Chris

This. And it will also take you much longer than what you anticipate.

My recommendation, if you want to fly, is buy one already built. Much cheaper! And you will be flying!
 
Building an RV14A

It was my dream too. I have built houses, have an A unlimited contractors license so built lots of commercial projects, built many cars. I have designed and had produced 1,000's of buildings sending them to 49 of 50 states and around the world and I am not an engineer, Still built cars through auctions. But the ultimate challenge is an RV14A. I believe it is the very best out there. And now that I am 2.5 years into it and close (it is alway relative) to being done and I don't even have a pilot's licence yet.
The bottom line is if you love building, researching what is needed to make it work, like to buy a lot more tools then you can imagine, weekly orders from Aircraft Spruce, research and study plans some more, etc, etc,

If you think you would not love building it, go buy one.

If you do start and need advice there are an amazing group of folks here to help. If you need inspirational stories read the different travel blogs here, especially the one where Vlad flys to Russia, it is very well done and I have never met him. But maybe someday I will. I am very impressed by someone who can really write a good story and add photos to make it come alive.

https://dan-larry-rv14.blogspot.com/
Larry
 
I can assist

Happy to help with the tools and knowledge. I built my -10 in San Diego and currently fly out of KSEE. If you want to buy the practice kit I am happy to open my hanger for you and you can use my tools to see if it is a good fit for you. Can also start with some scrap if you want to play with that. I have plenty.

Drop me a line, [email protected]

I am out of town until Wednesday but available Thursday through the weekend.

There is also a wealth of knowledge at Ramona, including one -14 in progress, I believe

Ethan
 
Lemos,

you asked if you have sufficient mechanical ability to make the 14... I would say that anyone who is able to put together a wall unit from IKEA that doesn't fall apart immediately is able to build an RV. For sure there's a lot to learn but don't worry, you will learn step by step. Theres an huge amount of information that you have to process over time but it's definitely no rocket science.

I do think one of the most important aspects in regard of the project success is if you enjoy building or not. If you hate what your doing... well, not so good. If you enjoy the major part of the building process, and you hate only sometimes what you're doing, then you're good to go.

But this is something you have to find out for yourself. Nobody from the internet can tell you that and even your mother or wife could not tell. So a lot of head scrathing will likely not help here. Get the tools and emp kit and start. That's the cool thing with Van's... they let you find out if this is something for you. If not you can sell the stuff with manageable loss.

theres that saying: To fail is no shame, not trying is.
 
Patience & perseverance & commitment

The rest are skills that you will learn or you will find a new friend who can help you with this or that.
To get back on the project after massive failure, immense disappointment and the urge to capitulate/surrender........all of this will happen during the build........

To get back on the project...........this is the trick.
patience, perseverance and commitment will get you there, nothing else.

A understanding family (wife, that is!) and a bit more money that you plan on helps more than you would expect.

There is always a piece of truth in every joke.

Q: What is the most expensive thing in homebuilding (an aircraft)?
A: Divorce!

Patience, perseverance and commitment.
It?s a Marathon, not a Sprint.

But it is worth it!!!!
 
You've already received some very accurate advice here. Allow me to share my input as an RV-8 builder about 85% done. I had one foot planted firmly in each build-vs-fly camp, with a little more weight on the -fly side. I had a good mechanical instinct and enjoyed building things and working on cars and motorcycles, but wasn't really much of a craftsman. I had fostered the dream of building for over two decades, first thinking of an Avid Flyer and eventually committing to the RV-8. I bought the pre-plans kit and allowed life to distract me for 13 more years; by the time I was ready to build I had to buy a new pre-plans kit because Van's had redesigned the aircraft! Finally got started in 2015; built the empennage and ordered the Quickbuild wings and fuselage, which took a long time to arrive; also long lead times for the engine and prop. I'm hoping I'll get my aircraft flying this year, but with Michigan winters it might not fly until next spring; we'll see. For me, it's been the journey of climbing a mountain one step at a time. Some steps are easy, some are hard, and every step is a learning experience. But I know that if I keep stepping, I will reach the top. But the mountain gets steeper the further up you get, and sometimes it's scary for me... I'm so far up the mountain I can't turn back, but the climb feels harder each day sometimes. You never mentioned your age, but I'm now about to turn 63 and I really wish I had started this project when I was younger. This airplane is the Last Big Project I'll probably ever commit to - the rest of my life I'll commit to becoming the best RV-8 pilot I can become. Your time and financial commitment seems realistic, although I'm finding it true that my aircraft cost far more than I thought it would. Some regrets I have: I wish I hadn't committed to painting my own aircraft; I was warned not to, but I wanted my aircraft to be finished before first flight. If I had just built the airframe, it would be flying already... but then I'd have a much larger expense ahead of me. If you do paint, DON'T order your supplies early. I've thrown out a lot of money in expired paint because my target dates for painting were unrealistic. I also wish it wasn't necessary to get the engine and avionics installed, then have them sit in the airframe for two years because the finishing is taking me so long. On the plus side, I do believe that your RV-14 will come together much quicker than the RV-8. So your decision weighs heavily on whether you're prepared to make the commitment... because it's a big commitment. But everyone is correct. It can be done, and the fact that more than ten thousand people have done it before me is a big encouragement.
 
Local EAA chapter

Meet up with and join your local EAA chapter. Being a third hand for others working on their project is a great way to learn what goes in building things.

See if you can use EAA chapter tools to build the Vans practice kits. Get help, share the experience.

Great advice above. Also, if you have the budget headroom, there are ?build assist? programs to help you build to a high standard under supervision.

Go fly with new friends who own RVs. Motivation can make up for lack of natural talent.

Good luck! Welcome.
 
i don't think that everyone that wants to build can do it. there are just some people that don't have what it takes to do it. yea, i know one bite at a time but there is a lot more to it than that. what's going on in the builders head. there are lot of jobs i couldn't do but i guess building an airplane isn't one of them.
 
But I must admit, I have nearly no mechanical skills. I can do an oil change on my car or motorcycle. I can change the air filter on them too. But that is simple stuff.

Can I really build an airplane?

Many people have the question regarding skills, but I think the more relevant question is about desire. Not the desire to build just an airplane, but the innate desire to build anything!

The reason many builders have prior mechanical experience is because they are often "tinkerers" by nature. They enjoy building stuff period. Building, tinkering and problem solving is in their DNA. If they weren't building a plane, they'd be building a car, furniture, boat, RC models, etc.... I believe that building a plane is simply a progression of one's desire to build bigger and more complex projects.

The fact that you say you have no mechanical experience would lead me to question if you truly have the DNA of a builder. Not an airplane builder, but someone that NEEDS a project. If you weren't thinking about building a plane, would you be looking to build something else? If your answer is no, then I believe the challenge will be finishing an airplane. Starting is easy, finishing is hard!

I'm not trying to discourage you. In fact, building an airplane has been one of the best experiences of my life. Just trying to give you my perspective on what it takes to complete a project of this magnitude.
 
With no mechanical experience, it will not be impossible but it also will not be at all easy. If you start with the tail kit and tools you could get an idea of what?s involved but that will cost you $4+k including an air compressor and tools. You will learn a lot either way it goes.
 
if I end the planned build with say $70,000 to spend over and above the costs already outlined above, is that sufficient?
Should be plenty. You could always send the excess my way to help finish my build out :D


Seriously, though...


I think just about anyone can learn to do all of the build/assembly/fabrication tasks to an acceptable standard. Distinguishing between "good enough" and "yeah, I need to redo that" is a little more challenging...

Also more challenging than just doing the mechanical tasks of building, is learning how to plan your work so you don't build yourself into a corner, building the discipline to set the task up right (use the right fixtures, use the right tools, double-check your measurements, etc.) so you don't mess things up, and so on. These things come easier and more naturally to some people than others.

Many of the tasks of building are just mind-numbing chores--deburring, dimpling, priming, updrilling matched holes to final size. Some people are more easily able to just focus, zen out, or grind this out than others. I think it's a temperament thing, like how some people can go out and practice their golf swing, play an instrument, dry fire, lift weights, or do some other repetitive thing over and over and over and over again, where others (like myself) quickly get bored. If you're in this latter category you'll need to figure out some way to break up the tasks or help yourself grind it out.

Any deviation from plans will make things take longer, as you not only have to make your own parts but you need to figure out what those parts should be. This has really slowed me down for the better part of a year (going EFI and designing the panel myself); I don't regret it but just be aware of the tradeoff.

Make sure your family (if any) is on board. I warned my wife on our first date I'd be building an airplane one day, and she's ok with that. But juggling work, family, and building is still a challenge, especially now that our son is preschool age (old enough to walk around, get in trouble, and want Daddy time, but not really old enough to help or be safe in the shop). This is in fact my biggest challenge at this point--after a couple years of major medical bills and delays from family stuff, I think I've reached the tipping point where my airplane fund will reach the desired amount to finish faster than I can build. Now I just have to find the time to finish.

No offense intended, but your estimate of five hours a day, five days a week, is pretty aggressive. I think to sustain that kind of pace long-term, you'd have to be single, retired, and/or an empty-nester.

But all this is to echo the other sentiments--the individual tasks are generally straightforward; the challenge is actually executing them at a pace leading to a viable completion time. You'll probably hit periods where you just can't find the time to build; you'll definitely hit periods where you're so bored and/or frustrated that you don't want to sit down and work. How well you manage to plow through those periods is one of the biggest factors, I think, right behind not upsetting your family.


But above all else--you have to enjoy at least some of the process and want to build for the sake of building, otherwise your chances of finishing go way down. If all you want is an airplane, find a really cheap hobby to keep you busy in the meantime, and save up to buy one.
 
Privately and here in this topic I have received a lot of input. I need to sit down and process this all and do a bit of searching within to see what my aspirations are, and what is realistic.

For those that have offered to assist me with the practice kit, thank you! I have at least five offers from people to assist and let me use their tools with a practice kit. What an amazing bunch of builders.
 
I always wanted to build, but didn't think I could knowledge-wise, then along comes the internet. Without places like VAF and lots of other builder web logs, I could not have done it.
Come on down to Ramona and I'd be happy to talk/assist/coach/etc.
I never set a rivet until I took the SportAir workshop and my little practice kit came out with several dents. You learn by doing and nothing is irreplaceable. As others have said, build the tail, then you'll know. I'm an EAA Tech counselor and the advice is always free.
 
Lemos,

All of the above replies contain good information. I fully support the recommendation to find a local builder/mentor and build one of the practice kits, or maybe even both practice kits, using the mentor's tools. Looks like you are well on your way to taking this simple step.

If you then decide to proceed, I would recommend you consider building your empennage kit with the assistance of Synergy Air in Oregon (https://synergyair.com). I did this with my RV-10 and it was a great experience. I was paired with several different A&P instructors in their shop over the 8 days (only 5 days for the RV-14), which demonstrated different approaches to the same work. It also allowed me to try out a variety of tools to decide which I liked best and wanted to purchase. Yes, it adds a bit to the cost, but I suspect that it pays out in reduced need to purchase replacement parts due to screw-ups avoided by the training. And it also will help you to understand what acceptable results look like vs. work that should be re-done.

So best of luck on your building journey. Hopefully you will enjoy the journey and eventually have an aircraft you can point proudly to and say "I built that!"

Regards,
 
I have little doubt you can attain the necessary mechanical skills.

Those are not really what it takes to build an airplane. It is a long process with a lot of steps that can seem quite tedious. You will have to answer numerous questions about how you want to equip your aircraft, from engine to avionics and make numerous small decisions that seem to be endless. You have to always keep the goal in mind and have the perseverance to achieve it.

If you doubt you have that level of perseverance, no matter your mechanical skills, you probably can't build an airplane, even a quick build.

If you know or are pretty sure that you do have that level of perseverance, it'll be a piece of cake. You will be unbelievably satisfied when you finish.

Regarding money, some have said it will always cost more. Not true if you don't try and cut corners during the budgeting process. I've built two airplanes and they have both come in close to the budgeted amounts. Most of the costs are known upfront. A reasonable allowance for replacement parts, tool, etc. should do you well.
 
I'm a software/computer guy and even I figured out how to smash a rivet. I thought learning the mechanical stuff was going to be the hardest part, but so far it has actually been the financial planning piece.

I wish I could go back six months ago and warn myself...

In the end it's only money, you can always get more, but you can never get more time.
 
Yes, you can do it, and more importantly, you will be glad you undertook the journey. I didn't even know what a cleco was when I started my build.
 
Now is a great time

I'm local; PM me if you want to talk, or meet for a cup of "socially distanced" coffee.

To your statement, I'm assembling an RV-14 kit right now, and it really is " ... nothing but matching parts and riveting them together..." in the same sense as life advice for graduating seniors: "just work hard and be nice to others."
While both are true, there is lots of learning, and many choices to be made along the way.

More resources:
EAA Brown Field chapter very active ("approaching 5000 members" inside joke.)
-meals are pretty good,
-tool crib available for lending when I last checked,
-aircraft and people are fascinating.

Miramar College has a great A&P program
-Not needed to build an RV, but might be of interest down the road.

KRNM has lots of experimental builders, pilots, owners.
 
And how does one know? As it stands today, buying all the kits plus a new IO-390, plus a new prop, $40,000 in avionics, and $20,000 in paint, I have $20,000 to play with in my budget. I?ll add $3000 per month or more to that account during the build. This seems sufficient to me, but allows those who have gone before me to educate me.. if I end the planned build with say $70,000 to spend over and above the costs already outlined above, is that sufficient?

No rule that you have to pay full retail or buy all new instrumentation, new engine or propeller. Lots of ads for earlier generation glass panels for sale as they are being replaced with current models. Same for radios/transponders. By the time you're ready, there will be used/reman engines/propellers available. $20,000 for paint? Wrap it for a fraction of the cost.
 
As others note above, the experience can be learned or gained.

However, i would argue it is the inclination part that is much more critical. You need to have the inclination and temperament of a builder to sustain yourself through a longer project than you anticipate. That inclination and temperament also includes a keen attention to detail, and the ability to make many good judgements daily about whether the work you have just completed is ?good enough.? Then, if the answer is no, the willingness to redo things, at more time and expense, is essential.

Good luck.
 
Can I do it?

I bet most of us builders flying our RV's today ask ourselves that question. Can I do it? We all learned as we built each part that the answer was yes. Still, after I completed each part, I would sit back and say to myself: I can't believe I built that! Two years and seven months later I had a beautiful RV-8 sitting in my hangar ready to fly!

That incredible first flight is hard to put into words, so I won't try. You just have to experience it. I started flying off the 25 hour restrictions. There were many times I'd land and put the Doll into the hangar, lock up and head for my car. Something would make me turn around and open the hanger door, stare at my new RV-8 sitting there and think..... You guessed it: I Can't Believe I Built That!

Building my RV-8 was life changing. In 13 days, on July 12, 2020 my Beautiful Doll will have been flying for 20 years! I can't believe that much time has gone by, but I finally accepted that..... Yes I built that!
 
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It is these kinds of threads that we NEED OSH for! Who could resist listening to Danny's enthusiasm for his "little airplane", just one more time :). Many of us will never see the things he has seen or fly the hardware he has flown while "just makin' a buck". But we can all fly an RV and tell similar stories of how that (ONE) rivet got away from us and created a new unique flying feature that Van's never intended.

My experience says, if you can put together the basic cash for the first kit without any real financial pain, do it. Get the first kit in the door and start. Even without a complete plan! Life happens, and sometimes it will surprise you that things work out. But also, don't be afraid to get started and find it isn't for you and move on with something else...
 
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.....

My experience says, if you can put together the basic cash for the first kit without any real financial pain, do it. Get the first kit in the door and start. Even without a complete plan! Life happens, and sometimes it will surprise you that things work out.

....

Couldn?t say better Scottsky! That?s what I heard 15+ years ago :)
 
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