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What are you doing to be 2020 compliant

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gyoung said:
I just had my 430W software upgraded. The current version is 5.2 main with 5.0 for GPS. The shop told me 5.1 was released for ADSB and 5.2 was released for Flightstream. So 5.1 will work for ADSB if you don't have Flightstream.
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I ordered the Dynon GPS-2020 receiver last week, so my Dynon transponder will trigger 2020 compliant directly over the Skyview network now in any case. I will just be using the 430W for GPS approaches via the ARINC network into the Skyview, that's one less software upgrade to keep track of.
 
Went with full Dynon system

I went with the full Dynon system when I completed my RV-8 in 2015. I plan to install the 2020 compliant GPS this weekend and hopefully been done with the 2020 ADSB compliance issue....
 
I'm up!

Just finished up my Garmin GPS20A, GA35 Ant. install.
ADS-B Out 2020 compliant! Love it!

IMG_1529.PNG
 
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airguy said:
I ordered the Dynon GPS-2020 receiver last week, so my Dynon transponder will trigger 2020 compliant directly over the Skyview network now in any case. I will just be using the 430W for GPS approaches via the ARINC network into the Skyview, that's one less software upgrade to keep track of.
Click to expand...

Same here...replaced the SV-GPS-250 with the SV-GPS-2020, and the FAA flight check report shows full compliance!

I *could* have used the 430W to feed the data, but I'd rather put needles in my eyes than have to crawl up under the dash and mess with the wiring to do that :)
 
FAA check

What is that email address to get the FAA check?
I've seen it before but haven't found it just now.
Thanks!
 
When I built I installed the Skyradar receiver and GTX 330ES. I didn?t realize until I started flying none of my GPS? would talk to the 330ES.

I love/hate the traffic information. Love it when it is there hate it when it is not. Soooo, I added a Garmin GPS 20A this week. I haven?t flown yet, but this should get me 2020 ready.
 
SkyView here. Just installed the 2020 GPS antenna over the weekend.

[ed. Removed vendor bashing stuff... dr] I don't want to have to redo my entire panel when/if I feel the need to replace some minor instrument.
 
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N941WR said:
SkyView here. Just installed the 2020 GPS antenna over the weekend.

My preference is to avoid Garmin do to their constantly changing form factors. I don't want to have to redo my entire panel when/if I feel the need to replace some minor instrument.
Click to expand...

Kinda like Dynon did with the Skyview system? :p
 
Just finished adding the gps2020 and 470 in box. The traffic feature is fantastic.

Bob burns
Rv-4 n82rb
 
benburb said:
Problem with waiting until Dec. 2019, according to Garmin seminar I just attended, is: so will many others, and you may get stuck in a log jam, and find your plane grounded 1/1/20 until the log jam clears.
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I am waiting as I believe the FAA will slip the date. Even the USAF is not going to have the money to be compliant by 2020. My guess is AOPA and EAA will use that to delay GA from having to be compliant also due to high cost of the equipment.
OR
I will wait to buy a cheap ADS-B compliant system from Google when Google mass produces them in order to get into the drone market. I am sure if Google is making them for thousands of drones, they will be selling them for far below today's prices.
 
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NavworX to Garmin 696

Any way the navworx info can display on a 696 or 796?

Yes, RS 232.... easy wiring to the Garmin Portables.
 
Navworx to 696

That link mentions traffic and weather on GPSMAP portables.... or am I mis-reading something?
 
G3X will ring in soon, I'm sure!

I love that Garmin has watchers here to help us de-clutter the infonet!
 
Click on GPSMAP. It says:

"GPSMAP 396/496/696 display ADS-B traffic using the TIS-A format"

TIS-A is limited to 8 targets at once, reduced directional resolution, and no N-numbers. No WX/FIS-B at all.
 
Drifting...

Brantel said:
Kinda like Dynon did with the Skyview system? :p
Click to expand...

Different issue.

Why can't Garmin make their equipment tray replaceable? When upgrading a radio or GPS, why do you need to remove the tray, shift everything around, rewire it all, and then put it all back together again?

[ed. Removed vendor bashing stuff... dr]
 
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ADS-B Receiver for GPSMAP 696

rolivi said:
G3X will ring in soon, I'm sure!

I love that Garmin has watchers here to help us de-clutter the infonet!
Click to expand...

Thank you Rob.

Others are correct that the only compatible interface to that unit for a 696 appears to be a TIS-A traffic emulation (no weather).

It also appears to be a single frequency traffic receiver (978 Mhz only), which is a poor choice for an ADS-B traffic receiver.

Not sure why you would choose to rely on that type of ADS-B receiver for your important traffic data when dual frequency (978/1090 Mhz) traffic and weather receivers like the GDL 39 are so affordable. Here is one example.

Good or bad, the U.S. is a dual frequency country with some ADS-B Out aircraft transmitting on 978 Mhz and some on 1090 Mhz. The latest FAA equipage report shows that more than 70% of the aircraft which have equipped for ADS-B Out have equipped with a 1090 Mhz transmitter and there is strong evidence this trend will hold.

Why would anyone choose a 978 Mhz only ADS-B traffic receiver that is "deaf" to 70% of the ADS-B Out aircraft unless it is getting ADS-R assistance from a ground station that may or may not be available or in view?

Using a TIS-B datalink from a ground station as a crutch to enable us to see Mode C traffic as an interim solution until "everyone" is ADS-B Out is fine, but you sure don't want to invest in an ADS-B receiver that isn't dual frequency for both types of ADS-B Out transmitters and have to rely on ground stations to complete your traffic picture (with ADS-R) forever.

If you have a single frequency 978 Mhz receiver, you could be flying straight at a 1090ES aircraft at your altitude a short distance away and not be able to see it without getting help from a ground station.

Even if you are located close to an ADS-B ground station, by the time you get down to traffic pattern altitude approaching an airport, you will often lose line-of-sight to the ground station and will be on your own to see both 978 Mhz and 1090 Mhz transmitting aircraft in the pattern and approaching the airport.

Of course this isn't a problem for the dual frequency GDL39 receiver since it works well to directly see both types of ADS-B Out traffic no matter where you are flying.

Thanks,
Steve
 
Question for Steve

Would it work to leave my GDL 39 running and just use the 978 UAT to meet the transmit out function?
 
g3xpert said:
Why would anyone choose a 978 Mhz only ADS-B traffic receiver that is "deaf" to 70% of the ADS-B Out aircraft unless it is getting ADS-R assistance from a ground station that may or may not be available or in view?

Using a TIS-B datalink from a ground station as a crutch to enable us to see Mode C traffic as an interim solution until "everyone" is ADS-B Out is fine, but you sure don't want to invest in an ADS-B receiver that isn't dual frequency for both types of ADS-B Out transmitters and have to rely on ground stations to complete your traffic picture (with ADS-R) forever.
Click to expand...

One reason: FIS-B weather. Second reason: coverage by ground stations is already very extensive throughout the country, and should only become more so. Third reason: Mark 1 eyeballs still work.

I think the expectation is that *most* GA planes will be 1090ES out/978 UAT in, using the ground stations as ADS-R, and with the expansion of the ground stations, by 2020, they should see the same traffic as they would with a dual-frequency ADS-B In system.
 
flightlogic said:
Would it work to leave my GDL 39 running and just use the 978 UAT to meet the transmit out function?
Click to expand...

Hello Nick,

Yes, you may use the GDL 39 as your ADS-B traffic and weather receiver while a 978 UAT is being using to satisfy the need for ADS-B Out.

Thanks,
Steve
 
RV7A Flyer said:
One reason: FIS-B weather. Second reason: coverage by ground stations is already very extensive throughout the country, and should only become more so. Third reason: Mark 1 eyeballs still work.
Click to expand...

FWIW the 978WX is more important to me than the traffic display. Don't get me wrong the traffic display is awesome but my Mk1 eyeballs are primary for traffic detection when VFR. But, I can't get WX information at my destination with my Mk1 eyeballs until it might be too late. That is the reason I paid for XM weather (no traffic there) before ADS-B even existed.

:cool:
 
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N941WR said:
Different issue.

[ed. Removed vendor bashing stuff... dr].
Click to expand...

I think that's an unfair characterization of Garmin's product development, and the same could be said for every other avionics manufacturer as well if that were the case.

I believe the reality is packaging changes for various reasons with product development, trying to fit all the new stuff in the "old box" just doesn't work very well when it comes to design and manufacturing.
 
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RV7A Flyer said:
One reason: FIS-B weather. Second reason: coverage by ground stations is already very extensive throughout the country, and should only become more so. Third reason: Mark 1 eyeballs still work.

I think the expectation is that *most* GA planes will be 1090ES out/978 UAT in, using the ground stations as ADS-R, and with the expansion of the ground stations, by 2020, they should see the same traffic as they would with a dual-frequency ADS-B In system.
Click to expand...

Hello,

One reason: FIS-B weather
Click to expand...

There seems to be some confusion. This discussion is centered on traffic, not FIS-B weather. There is no question that receiving free FIS-B weather is one of the reasons why all of us want an ADS-B receiver, but it has nothing to do with the dual frequency nature of the ADS-B Out traffic that is being discussed.

Second reason: coverage by ground stations is already very extensive throughout the country, and should only become more so
Click to expand...

The FAA has stated that "The FAA has installed 634 ADS-B ground stations throughout the US, completing baseline deployment of the network." The FAA has announced that in 2016 they are installing 3 stations in Mexico, but we are not aware of an significant changes planned for the U.S. network.

This ADS-B coverage map shows the coverage at 500' AGL in yellow and 1500' AGL in blue.

ADSBCoverage500_1500.png


The coverage in the East is obviously much better than in the west and Alaska. Everyone choosing to buy a single frequency 978 Mhz ADS-B receiver should be aware that they are wholly dependent on ground station support to see 1090ES traffic (70% of ADS-B Out aircraft), and this just isn't possible in many areas, especially at low altitude when taking off and landing.

We primarily want to educate people to know that better equipment without this limitation is available. The dual frequency GDL 39 was introduced in 2012 and all of Garmin's ADS-B receivers are dual frequency including the GDL 84/88, GDL 39R, GDL 39 3D, and the new GTX 345.

While even a single frequency traffic receiver is much better than nothing, we value the low altitude air-to-air support provided by dual frequency receivers, wouldn't want a single frequency traffic receiver in any of our aircraft, and don't think any of you do either.

Thanks,
Steve
 
Walt said:
I think that's an unfair characterization of Garmin's product development, and the same could be said for every other avionics manufacturer as well if that were the case.

I believe the reality is packaging changes for various reasons with product development, trying to fit all the new stuff in the "old box" just doesn't work very well when it comes to design and manufacturing.
Click to expand...

Walt, I respectfully disagree with you on this point.

With the continued reduction in the size of electronic components, it is easier and easier to stuff more features in smaller and smaller packaging. Heck, as small a development shop as we are with the EICommander, we see this every time we order new components.

There is absolutely no reason why the 430/530 replacements couldn't be try replaceable. Heck, look what Avidyne was able to pack into their units AND they made them fit in the old Garmin trays.

Don't even get me started on their radio "upgrades" because it is the same issue with them.

[ed. Removed vendor bashing stuff... dr]
Eventually they will realize that E-AB's are becoming a bigger player in their market and we do have options not open to "Certified" aircraft.
 
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Right now I'm watching & waiting.
It looks like I'll be upgrading my old Terra transponder. Perhaps a Garmin GTX-335, a 1090ES w/ ADS-B out.
ADS-B in will be portable stuff. Right now I'm using a Stratux kit I assembled, displaying via Foreflight on an iPad.
That gets compliance, provides ADS-B in w/managed cost, and is flexible for the future. Portable/ hand held 'Electronic Flight Bag' is much easier to upgrade than built in avionics.
 
If we're trying to educate pilots on ADS-B IN, we should also tell them that only about 8% of aircraft are equipped with ADS-B OUT currently, and after 2020, there is no requirement for aircraft to have ADS-B OUT when in well over 95% of the United States, so the total percentage of aircraft that choose to go with ADS-B OUT is a huge unknown.

Thus, even after 2020, if you are relying on direct ADS-B on 1090 AND/OR 978 for your traffic avoidance when you are not getting TIS-B (radar coverage of Mode C targets), you are going to be missing a lot of traffic. Any time you have TIS-B you also have ADS-R, so you are getting both ADS-B frequencies, plus all Mode C targets.

Below is the map of the places you can fly and rely on direct ADS-B to see all the planes. Everywhere else you have no idea what percentage of aircraft have ADS-B, so relying on it is just random chance. This is why Dynon's systems basically call ADS-B limited unless you have TIS-B service.

ADS-B_places.jpg


--Ian
 
RV7A Flyer said:
Sorry to disagree with you, though. I'm good with 109ES out/978 UAT in...especially in comparison to your prices. :)
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Hello,

We are very glad you brought up our prices. Our dual frequency ADS-B traffic and weather receivers are a great value.

Your Single frequency ADS-B receiver: $995

Garmin GDL 39R Dual Frequency ADS-B Receiver: $799 street price
Garmin GDL 39 Dual Frequency ADS-B Receiver: $639 list, street prices $450 to $599

Clearly we have nothing to hide with our prices, and we are very proud of the value that our very capable, competitively priced ADS-B traffic and weather receivers provide.

Steve
 
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Since the teeth are coming out (hi Steve!) and Joe was commenting on his ADS-B In/Out solution, let's make sure that the out of the pricing on the Out side is well-understood. Remember that this thread was originally about ADS-B compliance (ie, OUT). To clear things up on the Out front:

Dynon Compliant ADS-B Out:

$2200 SV-XPNDR-261 +
$590 SV-GPS-2020 (receiver+antenna, no installation kit need, 4 wires color-coded to match the harness that every SkyView display comes with)
---------------------------------------------
$2790

Garmin Compliant ADS-B Out:

$2199 GTX23
$1225 GPS20A + GA35 Antenna + Installation kit
-----------------------
$3424


We think you're good too Joe. No smiley face needed.
 
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g3xpert said:
Joe,

We are very glad you are "good" with your avionics choices, but please don't spread misinformation about our prices and think it is ok since you put a smiley face on it.

Ok, let's get it out there. We know you have a Skyview system.

Skyview SV-ADSB-470 Single frequency ADS-B receiver: $995

Garmin GDL 39R Dual Frequency ADS-B Receiver: $799 street price
Garmin GDL 39 Dual Frequency ADS-B Receiver: $639 list, street prices $450 to $599

Clearly we have nothing to hide with our prices, and we are very proud of the value that our very capable, competitively priced ADS-B traffic and weather receivers provide.

Steve
Click to expand...

Isn't competition great!

Now if Garmin applied this same approach to bring a TSO GPS IFR navigator to the experimental market they would have a landslide of new customers. I fly with the GTN-650 only because it was the least of several grossly overpriced options.

For the rest of the panel I'll continue to rely on companies like Dynon to provide this much needed competition.

Carl
 
Both Camps

Answering the original question:

OUT: Dynon SV-XPNDR-261 / Dynon GPS-2020

IN: Garmin GDL-39R displaying on Garmin GDU-375

Received my compliance E-mail from the FAA this week - so I am good to go as of now!
 
N941WR said:
SNIP

Garmin is in the business of making money, not increasing value for their customers. SNIP
Click to expand...

These two items are inseparable; increasing value for customers is how successful companies make money.

With regards to the OP's question, I already have a 430W, so I'm replacing my 327 with a 345.
 
dynonsupport said:
Since the teeth are coming out (hi Steve!) and Joe was commenting on his ADS-B In/Out solution, let's make sure that the out of the pricing on the Out side is well-understood. Remember that this thread was originally about ADS-B compliance (ie, OUT). To clear things up on the Out front:

Dynon Compliant ADS-B Out:

$2200 SV-XPNDR-261 +
$590 SV-GPS-2020 (receiver+antenna, no installation kit need, 4 wires color-coded to match the harness that every SkyView display comes with)
---------------------------------------------
$2790

Garmin Compliant ADS-B Out:

$2199 GTX23
$1225 GPS20A + GA35 Antenna + Installation kit
-----------------------
$3424


We think you're good too Joe. No smiley face needed.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Dynon (btw, name's not "Joe", but that's okay :) ).

I also like the way Dynon provides *free* software updates for new features and/or bug fixes, which I can install myself instead of paying some tech in an avionics shop to do for me.

Ok, let's get it out there. We know you have a Skyview system.
Click to expand...

You'll be happy to note that I have your product, too...a Garmin 430W, because I wanted an IFR-equipped airplane. So technically, I could have used the 430W as my position source for the Skyview transponder. Of course, I'd have had to pay (twice) to have the software upgraded so that it would output ADS-B+ format, but what's a couple hundred bucks in the grand scheme of things?
 
This is a great thread and I thank everyone for participating and providing great information.

Also: my head hurts like I'm doing taxes, the coffee cup is empty, I feel like the dumbest guy in class and I feel like I did when I was a kid on Saturday with homework to do: I'm going to put all of this off until Sunday night (ie: 2020). Maybe I'll be smarter by then. ;)
 
RV7A Flyer said:
Thanks, Dynon (btw, name's not "Joe", but that's okay :) ).

I also like the way Dynon provides *free* software updates for new features and/or bug fixes, which I can install myself instead of paying some tech in an avionics shop to do for me.

You'll be happy to note that I have your product, too...a Garmin 430W, because I wanted an IFR-equipped airplane. So technically, I could have used the 430W as my position source for the Skyview transponder. Of course, I'd have had to pay (twice) to have the software upgraded so that it would output ADS-B+ format, but what's a couple hundred bucks in the grand scheme of things?
Click to expand...

Hello,

Perhaps you haven't noticed, but Garmin doesn't charge for software updates either and doesn't charge extra for things like the moving map and VP-X support. We don't charge for software updates on our portables, not on G3X and G3X Touch, not even on our certified products like GNS and GTN.

Not only is new software with many new features free, but for portable GPS units, G3X and G3X Touch systems, and even recently for GTN 6XX/7XX, the customer may download this software from our website and install it themselves - all free.

The fact that the GTN 6XX/7XX uses a standard SD card, opened the door for GTN owners to install their own free software upgrades. Read all about it here: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=135305

We appreciate that free software upgrades aren't quite as simple for the older GNS products which don't use an SD card, but Garmin does not charge dealers for this software either.

Perhaps you don't care, but that free GNS software update that is available for your 430W which kept up with years of changing ADS-B Out requirements and allows customers to use their GNS 430W as a FAR 91.227 compliant position source took a small army of engineers to maintain and re-certify to new requirements over the years. [ed. Edit. dr]
Thanks,
Steve
 
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g3xpert said:
Hello,

Perhaps you haven't noticed, but Garmin doesn't charge for software updates either and doesn't charge extra for things like the moving map and VP-X support. We don't charge for software updates on our portables, not on G3X and G3X Touch, not even on our certified products like GNS and GTN.

Not only is new software with many new features free, but for portable GPS units, G3X and G3X Touch systems, and even recently for GTN 6XX/7XX, the customer may download this software from our website and install it themselves - all free.

The fact that the GTN 6XX/7XX uses a standard SD card, opened the door for GTN owners to install their own free software upgrades. Read all about it here: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=135305

We appreciate that free software upgrades aren't quite as simple for the older GNS products which don't use an SD card, but Garmin does not charge dealers for this software either.

Perhaps you don't care, but that free GNS software update that is available for your 430W which kept up with years of changing ADS-B Out requirements and allows customers to use their GNS 430W as a FAR 91.227 compliant position source took a small army of engineers to maintain and re-certify to new requirements over the years. [ed. Edit. dr]

Thanks,
Steve
Click to expand...

OK, so where on your website do I find the "free" GNS-430W software update, along with instructions on how to install it?

BTW, is this how you talk to all of your customers? Because it's a GREAT way to build a loyal customer base. Not.

[ed. Note from site owner:

Hey, Joe (your profile lists 'Joe' as your name, but the admin software and some lite googling had me coming up with a different name entirely). I have the impression you're spoiling for a fight for some reason with a vendor, and I'm not sure why, exactly. It's kinda 'undude' behavior as a guest in my virtual house here - especially anonymously. The vendors bend over backwards to help us out, technically. Very few forums enjoy this kind of interaction - it's a rare thing that is easily spoiled. Let's chill on the bashing, OK?

I'm going ahead and locking the thread down. Let's play nice, or don't play, OK? Rule #7 on civility at: http://www.vansairforce.net/rules.htm. v/r,dr]​
 
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