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24 hours straight with two strippers...

DaleB

Well Known Member
Since we've had a very entertaining thread about Hookers, I thought I'd post my experience with a couple of strippers too.

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So I have an airplane with lots of paint that will need to be removed before it can be re-painted. When I say "lots", I am not kidding. There appears to have been no real surface preparation or priming done, just some paint sprayed on rather thickly. It seems to be an automotive base/clear of some sort. The builder apparently had someone do it who is perhaps not the best painter in the country.

Since I'd like to minimize the mess and toxicity, I decided to try a couple of non methylene chloride strippers. I've had excellent success with Citristrip on many surfaces with stain, varnish, spray paint, etc. And Spruce sells some stuff called PTS-202 that claims to remove epoxy and urethane paint effortlessly. I even found a Youtube video of it being used to strip a Caravan or something. Pretty impressive, that one was.

So I brought the spinner home and brushed one side heavily with Citristrip and one with PTS-202. A couple of hours later there was no indication of any change in the condition of the paint. Since it's pretty heavy paint, I gave it another heavy brush coat of each. That was around 11 PM last night.

This morning there was no apparent change. None. The paint was still smooth and stuck down as well as before. I tested the paint with a razor blade; it's relatively soft, about like low density polyethylene. I can peeled off the clear coat and outer layer of color in thin strips like a carrot, but the paint is in no way loose or coming off. I gave it another very thick coat of PTS-202 on that side, and left the Citristrip side alone. With no further change by around 5 PM, I hit it with PTS-202 again.

The short story is... I don't know what this thing was painted with, but neither stripper is really doing squat. I don't know what PTS-202 WILL work on, but it sure as heck won't work on this stuff. I guess I'll have to resort to one of the nastier strippers to get the job done.

Pretty disappointing, really. I had hope for the Citristrip but didn't really expect it to work. The PTS-202, though, is advertised as "intended to remove the most resilient coatings from metal and composite surfaces", specifically claiming to remove "Urethanes, Epoxies and most other high performance finishes". Maybe cheap automotive finishes are not high performance enough for it to work on them.
 
Spruce says this -

The PTS-202 stripper is more ?environmentally friendly? and takes longer to penetrate the paint. However, the stripper removes the paint as a dry film and does not contain the same harsh chemicals found in the PTI-PRG. The advantage to the PTS-202 stripper is that it remains alive for up to eight hours. Therefore, if you are interrupted while removing the paint, you can leave the stripper on the plane and come back some hours later to complete the task ? the stripper will not have dried.

Perhaps the "dry film" they mention is the like the "carrot strips" you describe?
 
I like to use aluminum foil and cover the coated area to keep it active for much longer. I do recall some other non- MC stripper that worked, saw it here. I never had any luck with anything but MC, but there are lots of new products.

Do any of the strippers adversely affect the epoxy resins?
 
Perhaps the "dry film" they mention is the like the "carrot strips" you describe?
No reasonable person would in any way characterize this as "removing" paint. It's just slightly softening the outer layer. It's still stuck quite tenaciously to the underlying fiberglass -- which was, as far as I can tell, not even scuffed prior to painting.

Put it this way: It was easier to chip the paint off before the stripper than it is to slice it off after having the stripper on for 36 hours, now. I just tried it again a few minutes ago after laying on another extremely thick coat of stripper late last night. I can use a razor blade to pare off about half the paint film, but I'm still not getting down to the fiberglass.

I like to use aluminum foil and cover the coated area to keep it active for much longer. I do recall some other non- MC stripper that worked, saw it here. I never had any luck with anything but MC, but there are lots of new products.

Do any of the strippers adversely affect the epoxy resins?
The spinner is sitting in the garage on the bench, and I've kept laying on stripper often enough that it hasn't dried out. Seriously, I'm glopping it on pretty thick, just short of having it slide off. I have not seen any indication that either product is affecting the fiberglass at all. I was concerned about that, so I've tested the areas where it's exposed and found no softening, de-lamination, etc.
 
I had a lot of fiberglass repair and paint work to do on my C-152 nose bowl a few years ago. Nothing worked until I used this stuff I purchased from the local auto parts chain; http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/kle...p-14857.aspx?gclid=CJHgouLmscwCFZSCaQodtu4AMQ It worked in minutes and as soon as I had all the paint removed, I thoroughly washed the part with soap and water to ensure all stripper was removed.
Yeah... Methylene chloride, methanol, xylene, etc. Those are in many of the common paint strippers I have used before and was hoping to avoid, but it doesn't look like I'll be able to. As much as I like the Citristrip for stripping woodwork, it looks like there isn't a better mousetrap in this case.
 
Why not just sand it off? You'll never see stripper slathered on any composites at a certified repair station. Especially when a flap, cowl etc is a $40k+ composite part.
 
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I saw this stuff at the auto parts store that was labeled "aircraft stripper", but on the back in small print it said "not to be used on aircraft". Sorry, didn't read David's post first. I guess that's the same stripper
 
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Suggested product

Recently I was over at our local house paint supply store and while waiting for them to mix my order I struck up a conversation with a sales rep that was there to speak with the business owner. He said that Dad?s brand paint stripper is one of the highest strength consumer grade products that he is aware of, and with that suggestion I purchased a quart. It works better than any other product I?ve tried recently including Kleenstrip ?Aircraft Paint Stripper.? It still is not like the paint strippers of the ?good old days?, but it is the best that I?ve tried. The parent company on the back of the can says Sansher Corporation, Fort Wayne Indiana, and the website is www.dadseasyspray.com. Heat makes it more reactive, so try experimenting with hot air from a hand held heat gun or hairdryer. I just stripped the valve covers from my Chevy small block V8 and it lifted (crinkled) about 80% or the paint. I've tried ALL of the paint strippers stocked at my local ACE hardware - nothing worked.
 
please, no more sensational titles!!!

...and the really sad part, most of us are too old to have elevated pulse or BP from that title, much less anything else! :rolleyes:

.....keep the good ones coming though, always fun! ( now where DID I put those wire strippers again?)
 
Why not just sand it off? You'll never see stripper slathered on any composites at a certified repair station. Especially when a flap, cowl etc is a $40k+ composite part.

Partly because the spinner is the test case for what I'll do with the rest of the airplane. Sanding paint off of a plane built with blind rivets is a non-starter, so I've got to find a stripper that works. This stuff is also on thick enough that sanding would not be my first choice for anything bigger than the fuel cap.

An RV-12 spinner is not a $40K factory part, and I'm not an FAA certified repair station doing work on a factory plane And thank goodness for all of that. I have the luxury of being able to work in my garage, with access at any time of day or night, to test materials for efficacy and compatibility.
 
Smithsonian strippers

I stopped by the Smithsonian Paul E Garber facility years ago when they use to restore their planes there. I was fixing to strip my Stinson at the time and just so happen, they were stripping a plane. I started talking to one of guys that was doing the stripping and asked him what exotic stripper did he use. He said they just went down to the hardware store and bought a good paste. He said to put it on thick and don't work it much till it does it's stuff. I've had good luck with BIX. The older the paint, the harder it is to remove. I used a plastic putty knife and a tooth brush. Roughing up the paint with a fine sandpaper before using the stripper will help also.
 
The plot thickens... along with the finish. In some places the paint seems to have been applied over smooth, un-scuffed fiberglass. It chips off easily. Over much of the surface, though, there now seems to be what I am suspecting is polyester body filler (think Bondo) under he paint. I've been scraping ?nd paring off layers as the strippers soften it up to do so, and have about 10% of the fiberglass exposed.

If it is putty, I'll repeat this test on a metal piece without the polyester filler. I'm still not expecting much from either of them, given the lack of performance so far. Regardless of the substrate, I'd expect the stripper to either dissolve or loosen the paint. Neither one as even making headway where the paint was chipped up around the screw holes, which doesn't really indicate it's working well.

I emailed the manufacturer of the PTI product to let them know I wasn't having much luck with their paint remover. No response yet, I'll give it a few days.

All I know for sure is, the spinner will be substantially lighter when I finish with it.
 
Seems it getting harder to find the strippers that work well. You will not find this at Home Depot, but it works. Not sure scraping is real practical on the aluminum skins with rivet heads protruding. You might consider a low pressure pressure washer and lots of red scotch brite pads. Stewart Systems has some good videos on aircraft metal prep and painting, including using a pressure washer to rinse clean the aluminum.

http://www.ppgaerospace.com/Product...ado-PR-2002-Nonchlorinated-Paint-Remover.aspx

John Salak
RV-12 N896HS
 
Partly because the spinner is the test case for what I'll do with the rest of the airplane. Sanding paint off of a plane built with blind rivets is a non-starter, so I've got to find a stripper that works. This stuff is also on thick enough that sanding would not be my first choice for anything bigger than the fuel cap.

An RV-12 spinner is not a $40K factory part, and I'm not an FAA certified repair station doing work on a factory plane And thank goodness for all of that. I have the luxury of being able to work in my garage, with access at any time of day or night, to test materials for efficacy and compatibility.

http://www.gracosupply.com/Images/product pdfs/ardrox_2871_tds.pdf
 
Seems it getting harder to find the strippers that work well. You will not find this at Home Depot, but it works. Not sure scraping is real practical on the aluminum skins with rivet heads protruding. You might consider a low pressure pressure washer and lots of red scotch brite pads. Stewart Systems has some good videos on aircraft metal prep and painting, including using a pressure washer to rinse clean the aluminum.

http://www.ppgaerospace.com/Product...ado-PR-2002-Nonchlorinated-Paint-Remover.aspx

John Salak
RV-12 N896HS

I've heard that works good.
 
Recently I was over at our local house paint supply store and while waiting for them to mix my order I struck up a conversation with a sales rep that was there to speak with the business owner. He said that Dad’s brand paint stripper is one of the highest strength consumer grade products that he is aware of, and with that suggestion I purchased a quart. It works better than any other product I’ve tried recently including Kleenstrip “Aircraft Paint Stripper.” It still is not like the paint strippers of the “good old days”, but it is the best that I’ve tried. The parent company on the back of the can says Sansher Corporation, Fort Wayne Indiana, and the website is www.dadseasyspray.com. Heat makes it more reactive, so try experimenting with hot air from a hand held heat gun or hairdryer. I just stripped the valve covers from my Chevy small block V8 and it lifted (crinkled) about 80% or the paint. I've tried ALL of the paint strippers stocked at my local ACE hardware - nothing worked.

MSDS:
INGREDIENTS
Methylene Chloride (Dichloromethane)80% Methanol 2-Butoxyethanol 10%

If you use a methylene chloride product do not heat, and definitely cover it with aluminum foil. It is not a liquid at normal temps/pressures. It will readily turn to gas. Keep the container tight.
 
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The tech data sheet for nearly every stripper I find claims it removes everything, effortlessly. Apparently marketing claims and reality don't always completely line up - shocking, I know.


I would have concerns about being able to wash and neutralize that one after it was done removing paint.


That tech sheet reads almost exactly like the PTI product. At $55 a gallon, and only available in 5 gallon pails, I think I'll pass. :) I wouldn't mind the cost if I could know that it works, but I don't think I'm up for spending a few hundred bucks to find out.

At least neither of the products I've tried seems to have any effect at all on the fiberglass, which is good. I have a few cut-off scraps here I'll use to test anything else I decide to try before using it. I wasn't worried about the PTS-202 since it seems to have no solvents. I was a little more concerned about the citrus based stuff, but there's been no softening of the fiberglass from that either.

Nor has there been any significant paint removal from either one of them, for that matter. Since my original post I've kept applying both products as I removed layers of paint. Never once, even after scratching & roughing up the surface and re-applying, has either one resulted in any lifted or loosened paint. Nada.
 
The tech data sheet for nearly every stripper I find claims it removes everything, effortlessly. Apparently marketing claims and reality don't always completely line up - shocking, I know.



I would have concerns about being able to wash and neutralize that one after it was done removing paint.



That tech sheet reads almost exactly like the PTI product. At $55 a gallon, and only available in 5 gallon pails, I think I'll pass. :) I wouldn't mind the cost if I could know that it works, but I don't think I'm up for spending a few hundred bucks to find out.

At least neither of the products I've tried seems to have any effect at all on the fiberglass, which is good. I have a few cut-off scraps here I'll use to test anything else I decide to try before using it. I wasn't worried about the PTS-202 since it seems to have no solvents. I was a little more concerned about the citrus based stuff, but there's been no softening of the fiberglass from that either.

Nor has there been any significant paint removal from either one of them, for that matter. Since my original post I've kept applying both products as I removed layers of paint. Never once, even after scratching & roughing up the surface and re-applying, has either one resulted in any lifted or loosened paint. Nada.

Lets just say there is probably about a 1000 gallons of the Ardrox west of Omaha. Yes there are time lapse videos on facebook of it being used for some very neat airplane paint jobs.
 
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In reality I believe that do-all strippers don't work well anymore.

If you know the chemistry of what you're trying to strip, it should be easier to find something that works well.

Regular carburetor cleaner works better on some stuff than others for small parts.
 
I used citristrip gel and spray to strip two cherokee wings. Brushed it on a bit thick, left it for two days, came back and the paint came off in large sheets.
 
Have you ever tried DOT 4 brake fluid? I had some get on a painted surface when I was filling my brakes (after putting in all viton seals of course) and it seemed to be pretty effective! :(
 
No one seems to have really focused on the possible side effects of using a chemical stripper on a composite part. I would be afraid the stripper will attack the resin and cause a permanent softening and/or dis-bonding.
 
No one seems to have really focused on the possible side effects of using a chemical stripper on a composite part. I would be afraid the stripper will attack the resin and cause a permanent softening and/or dis-bonding.
Actually, I did mention that a couple of times... nether of the ones I am using have had any effect at all on the fiberglass. No softening, no de-lamination. I have some scrap pieces I'll use to test the effects of whatever other strippers I try.
 
Update:

I had let the strippers work for several days. For the last 36 hours or so I had wrapped plastic around the spinner with a fresh coat of PTS-202, just to see if that helped. It did, slightly -- there were a couple of small areas that loosened up like I would expect them to. I ended up wiping everything down with a rag, cleaning off the spinner and sanding with 80 grit to remove the remaining streaks of paint that I hadn't scraped off already. After sanding and a wipe with some solvent I shot a light coat of primer to get an idea of how much work I have to do before re-painting (lots).

Before closing the book on the strippers, I think it's only fair and reasonable to try them on painted metal. When I have some time in a week or three I'll pull some access panels, scuff with sandpaper and try them again. I'm honestly not expecting much success, though.
 
Soda blast

Since you're planning on stripping the whole airplane have you considered sodium bicarb blasting? Similar to sand blasting, but replaces sand with sodium bicarbonate (aka baking soda). It's used on airplanes all the time and leaves no "stripper" residue that can be hard to remove from seams that will affect paint later on. Sodium bicarb just washes away with water, and of course is non-toxic.
 
Since you're planning on stripping the whole airplane have you considered sodium bicarb blasting?

You're not the first person to ask that. At first I was leery of blasting the plane with an alkaline gritty substance that would get into the seams and rivet heads, but the more I read and hear about it the less I think it would be a problem. I'm looking around locally to see if I can find someone who can do it.
 
Unless blasting has gotten way better in twenty years, I wouldn't consider it on our thin skinned planes. A guy I worked for took a Cheyenne to PPG with a couple of his painters and they stripped it at PPG as a training course (factory pros). He had to buy the owner a new Cheyenne. Nothing pulls paint like Meth chloride. I have thirty year old stripper scars to prove it. They look like old cigarette burns.
 
So you have the stripper blues?!?!?

Hi Dale, I was reading through this thread, and trust me, I've been where you've been. I'm currently refinishing a set of Cessna wings, and just like you have said, the hardware store stuff softens the paint, but really doesn't cut it off.
In despair, I thought that I was going to have about 50 hours of scotch briteing just to get the wings and control surfaces back to bare aluminum, when I happened across a Facebook post about this "stripper that worked real good"
I called an outfit out of ST Louis called Chemisphere and the salesman assured me that the stuff he had would work wonders and he had heard my story before.
Let me tell you that this stuff WORKS! No foolin around with 18 coats and 5 days of scrubbing to get the paint off. It takes maybe 3-5 minutes with the first application and 75% of the paint is gone. 2nd coat pretty much cleans up whatever is left. If your interested, I'll get the part number of the stuff for you. Hope this helps. Clint
 
Sure Clint, I'm always interested in exploring options.

I saw a place locally that does dry ice blasting. Like sandblasting but using dry ice pellets... no residue from the media and supposed to strip anything. I emailed them and the guy called today (obviously a small business owner, it's Sunday). He said the last time they did automotive base/clearcoat, which I can only assume this is, they had to use methylene chloride stripper to remove the paint and dry ice to clean it up afterward at a cost of about $13.50 per square foot. Ummmmm.... thanks, but... no.

I'm sure all of these strippers work great for some paints. I know Citristrip works great on spray paint, enamel, w?od finishes, etc. I've never seen it just sit there and do nothing. PTI swears their stuff removes urethane and epoxy paints. But they're not doing much at all with this stuff.
 
I stripped my entire plane with Klean Strip from the hardware store. I worked in about 2 foot sections. Smeared it on with a cheap paint brush and didn't really let it sit long. I used plastic scrapers to push the wrinkled paint off quickly then pressure washed off the the remaining stripper before it dried. The primer required two more applications of stripper and it didn't wrinkle up like the top coat of paint. I put the stripper on and scrubbed it around with plastic dish scrubbers and pressure washed immediatly before the stripper dried.

I learned that some cans of stripper didn't have the potency of others. I tried to find the newest cans on the shelf. The chemical evaporates very quickly and you can tell when it just isn't working so just wash it off and reapply more.

I tried using rubber gloves and it was just a pain. I actually just learned to be careful to not get it on me and actually wore shorts while doing the job. If I did get some on me I could feel it and washed it off right away. Never had any burns.

The stripper worked fine on the fiberglass. Didn't leave it on long and haven't seen any softening of the glass. I haven't repainted my plane yet.

My pressure washer is one of the small electric ones that is ready to go as soon as the trigger is pulled.

It took 2 days to strip a wing and similar for the fuselage.

Temp outside was mid 70's.
 
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Hi Dale, the stuff is AccuChem #945 remover. You won't want to use it on any fiberglass parts, it's that bad!
 
Well, here's an interesting update.

Last night I pulled all of the inspection covers off the bottom of the plane. I figured this was a great opportunity to test the strippers on paint over metal, as opposed to paint over fiberglass. So, I set up four test pieces. Two were unaltered, just wiped down with a rag to get the oily belly scuzz off of them. The other two I scuffed up really well with 80 grit sandpaper (which didn't make it through the clear coat, the sanding dust was all white).

One of each got PTS-202, one of each got Citristrip and I covered them loosely with plastic to keep evaporation to a minimum. One was left on the bench with no stripper as a control. :) After roughly 15 hours, I found some pretty surprising, gratifying results.

#1 - PTS-202 on scuffed paint, about 80-85% removed.
#2 - A tie between PTS-202 on un-scuffed paint, and Citristrip on scuffed paint. About half removed, maybe more. Both had loosened and bubbled up the middle of the piece, leaving the paint near the edges soft but still stuck pretty well.
#3 - Citristrip on un-scuffed paint, not a lot of progress.

I was able to verify that there was no primer under the paint, and the aluminum was not consistently or heavily scuffed before painting. I cleaned off #1 and #2 and gave them all another coat of Citristrip, then sanded the last panel (#5) and coated it as well, laying it on thicker near the edges.

So it looks like both do reasonably well on painted metal, especially if the clear coat is roughed up really well. It's too bad the parts that need stripping and repainting the worst are all fiberglass. I'll have to try attacking those parts with 60 or 80 grit and see if the strippers do any better with the finish broken.

I'm going to try some 3M vinyl on the inspection covers and we'll see how that does. It's actually a pretty good match for the existing paint color.
 
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