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"Report 2 Mile Base"

When asked to report this, you are:


  • Total voters
    145

Toobuilder

Well Known Member
In a recent discussion with an experienced instructor, we had a difference of opinion exactly where the tower thinks you are in relation to the airport when you are asked to report this position. Further research indicates there are a LOT of opinions about this subject among pilots, instructors and tower personnel. I'd like to see if we're all on board here.
 
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I don't know!

I started flying again about 2.5 years ago after sitting out for nearly 30 years. I rarely visit towered airports since I restarted. I must admit I can't recall ever hearing this request or a pilot giving this as a position report. Is this a common request, and if so I would like to know where ATC thinks this location would be.
 
I may be misunderstanding the question. When tower asks this, they think you are 1) greater than two miles from the airport and 2) able to position for a base entry to the pattern. Since I typically make my initial call about 15NM from KFLG, I am accustomed to hearing 'report 5 mile L/R base/final' depending on direction and runway in use. Other reporting point I often hear is 'report midfield downwind'.

When I make my report I am 1) positioned for a base entry and 2) at the specified distance from the airfield. I don't see a practical difference between choices 1 and 3 assuming in both cases that you are making a normal base-to-final approach. The added distance by 'squaring the corner' is negligible compared to the error in estimating distance (even if you use your GPS). As for your second case, if the tower wanted you to make a long final, they'd instruct 'report 2 mile final'.
 
Totally normal request at our airport, every time (class D). The request is more qualified, please report when you are on a base leg, 2mi. from the field. They are pretty much expecting everybody to have some kind of GPS onboard. Otherwise you're just very roughly guessing +- a couple of miles (best I could do). No need to sweat it if not equipped.
 
PAR

After listening to ATIS (if equipped) and/or your initial call. Position, Altitude, Request. (and ATIS code if it applies) From there, follow all instructions.

You may get a request to report at a specific location. Most busy areas have specific landmark check points. If you don't know them, tell the tower.

Head out, communicate. Do not compromise safety, if you don't know, communicate that!!!!
 
Unless otherwise instructed the controller most likely expects you to fly from your initial reporting point to a point that will allow you to make a "normal" base leg and to report 2 miles out (from the final centerline) on that extended base. At the 2mi left base point ATC can sequence you with other traffic in the pattern or clear you to land.
 
What GPS tells you

I don't claim to know the correct answer but I use the threshold as the reference point. The issue may be that the GPS is probably measuring from some arbitrary point at the center of the airport which can easily be 1/2 to more than 1 mile different. I guesstimate the correction. When in doubt I report early.
 
Established on base, glance at map display, determine straight line range to runway (X), call "X mile left base"...seems to be the norm in airline world (different crewmembers every trip).

Look at it this way--how do you call out a long final? Straight line distance to the runway. "XXX 6 mile final"

Joe
 
Very interesting...

OK, here is where this is used in my area:

You are due north of the airport 5-7 miles and call the tower inbound, expecting to land on 27. They reply, ?Report 2 mile right base for 27?. At this point, you are cleared directly to base leg from your present position (no downwind). Here is where the confusion begins ? MY base leg is less than a quarter mile from the end of the runway, and in fact I am normally on final (wings level) for only a few seconds before I round out. In other words, I fly a tight pattern. This is significantly different than the students in the 172s flying their huge, FAA approved stabilized approach, and different also from the fire bombers returning from a mission with an even bigger pattern. The point being, the ?location? of the base leg relative to the runway is dependant upon the aircraft to a large part. The only constant is the fact that base is 90 degrees to final, and to me, a 2 mile base means I?m 2 miles away from the extended centerline, along my base leg (put another way, 2 miles to fly, then turn final).

Further support of this position was my experience last week making an approach from the north, expecting to land to the west on a 12,000 foot runway. Since I knew I was parking all the way at the west end, I requested a ?midfield base? and a long landing. This was approved, so I aimed right for the middle of the runway (on an ?extended? base), and called 2 miles before my turn to final (at midfield).
 
In my experience, on both sides of the table, when speaking with an instructor, the "standard" is the starting point. So in the original post, I would keep this in mind.

When you start talking about direct to base entries or mid-field base, extended finals or tight patterns (even overhead breaks) you're deviating from the "standard" and all bets are off. Not saying anybody is doing anything wrong, just saying that the standard "on paper" pattern depiction no longer applies.

I also think that it's important not to loose sight of the real intent of the call--to get eyeballs looking in your direction. Does it really matter if you're 3 miles straight line from the threshold/centerline intersection versus three miles ground track to the same point? In general, I would argue "no". Can the average guy even accurately determine that distance difference? Again, probably not. When you make that radio call, everyone else's SA should get them looking in your direction, then the traffic scan starts. After all, you're a moving target anyway.

State your position, if deviating from the general standard say so, fly defensively, and the general intent of the call is met. SA on everybody's part is the key

IMO ;)

Joe
 
Yay, I can help.

Unless told "report turning a 2 mile final" you should always make a standard base entry (to turn about a mile final give or take).

The "report 2 miles on left base" would be the straight line distance to the airport. Also could be "report 2 miles northwest, northeast... etc"

Anything shorter than 1/2 mile base to final turn should be coordinated as a short approach.

At airports when mixing with slower airplanes... try to reduce pattern speed to around 120 at the fastest. It helps the controllers out who aren't expecting 150+kt GS's from airplanes.

Anyway... all of this is just what I expect pilots to do when they fly into KEMT... I'm sure you could talk to other controllers and get other answers.
 
In my experience, on both sides of the table, when speaking with an instructor, the "standard" is the starting point. So in the original post, I would keep this in mind...


Your entire post is well taken, and I do agree that the intent is to get eyeballs looking in the general direction, but I do take slight exception to what is a "standard". At an uncontrolled airport, this is pretty well defined, but at a towered airport, the "standard" (if VFR) is to follow the tower's instructions, and a pattern entry can be straight to a x mile final, straight to a x mile base, or downwind abeam the tower, etc. Also, since this is controlled airspace, the only eyeballs you are primarily concerned with is the guy's in the tower, so you hope they're looking in the right direction and you are where they think you should be. That said, unless published for the airport, I'm not sure there is a real "normal" location for base leg. For instance, if I'm flying a tight, but FAA approved 1/4 mile final, my report of "114BG, 2 mile right base" is going to be in an entirely different part of sky than the fire tanker setting up for a 4 mile final, yet who is also reporting "Tanker 123, 2 mile right base". We're both at 2 miles out on our very different base legs; his being 4 miles from the threshold, and mine at a 1/4 mile.
 
I went to an FAA-sponsored seminar at KWJF a month or two back, and one of the speakers was the tower guy I usually talk to inbound to the airport. Reporting 2-mile right base for runway 24 is a very common request at this airport, and what he said he expects is a report when you are on base leg two miles from turning final, NOT 2-miles from the airport; ie. report at the beginning of a 2-mile long base leg. Fortunately, the roads in the desert here are laid out on a 1-mile grid, so it's fairly easy to determine when to make the call.
 
Yay, I can help.

Unless told "report turning a 2 mile final" you should always make a standard base entry (to turn about a mile final give or take).

The "report 2 miles on left base" would be the straight line distance to the airport. Also could be "report 2 miles northwest, northeast... etc"...

Yes, this is a help!

I found this response from the Livermore tower FAQ list, and it did not make a lot of sense until paired with your post:

9. What is a "2-mile base"? What is a "1-mile 45 degree entry"? The purpose of having you report these milestones is to give the controller 15-30 seconds to sequence you in with the existing traffic that already exists in the pattern. Most pilots would agree that a normal traffic pattern usually has a pilot turning from downwind to base-leg approximately 1 mile away from the airport. Asking someone to report a 2-mile base (in theory) means that we are expecting you to call approximately 1 mile away from that point where you would normally be turning a base-leg if you were already in the closed traffic pattern...

So, on a base leg which sets you up for a 1 mile final, 2 miles from the airport is where the controllers expect you to be when reporting "2 mile base".

It would seem that a bunch of us have very different thoughts...

Thanks.
 
Just when you thought it was settled...

I went to an FAA-sponsored seminar at KWJF a month or two back, and one of the speakers was the tower guy I usually talk to inbound to the airport. Reporting 2-mile right base for runway 24 is a very common request at this airport, and what he said he expects is a report when you are on base leg two miles from turning final, NOT 2-miles from the airport; ie. report at the beginning of a 2-mile long base leg...

...and then it gets muddy again.

It just so happens that WJF is the source of my post (despite using the fictional runway 27 in my example). So here we have two tower guys in disagreement. Is there any wonder why there is confusion?
 
This tower guy is mistaken. Logically speaking, question one is just nonsense. Why would you report two miles from turning final? "I'm two miles from turning a seven mile final..." Makes no sense. Two mile base is two miles from the runway... He is interested in your distance from the runway, not from some random point on final...

DM




went to an FAA-sponsored seminar at KWJF a month or two back, and one of the speakers was the tower guy I usually talk to inbound to the airport. Reporting 2-mile right base for runway 24 is a very common request at this airport, and what he said he expects is a report when you are on base leg two miles from turning final, NOT 2-miles from the airport; ie. report at the beginning of a 2-mile long base leg. Fortunately, the roads in the desert here are laid out on a 1-mile grid, so it's fairly easy to determine when to make the call.
 
From a logical standpoint...

Logically speaking, question one is just nonsense. Why would you report two miles from turning final? "I'm two miles from turning a seven mile final..." Makes no sense. Two mile base is two miles from the runway... He is interested in your distance from the runway, not from some random point on final...

I gotta agree with Dennis here. 2 miles from turning final doesn't tell him anything at all. Base leg, 2 miles from the airport, he knows just where you are.
 
It may not be right, but since final, base, and downwind are defined legs, where you are on each leg establishes timing for sequencing traffic. For example, if I have "2 miles to go" on any given leg, that tells the controller how much time he has to get another aircraft in or out. It's just as valid information as anything.
 
great information

I get "report 2 mile base" all the time flying into KNIP, and i was always under the impression that it was report on base 2 miles remaining in base leg...

change my vote to "on base 2 miles straight line to airport".

thanks for clearing this up in my head! :cool:
 
I guess I have just about talked myself into changing my vote to #3 also... To get it straight in my head, the phrase "report 2 mile base" is aviation jargon for: "report 2 miles out, and on base leg... The deal breaker for me is thinking of the same "2 mile" report but on the downwind leg - I certainly dont report with 2 miles "left to go" before turning base (that would be abeam the departure end of most runways)... I call when 2 miles FROM the airport.

One possible fly in the ointment though; if you are looking for the GPS countdown to reach 2 miles, but "your normal" base leg is wide and sets you up for a 2.1 mile final, you will never reach the 2 mile distance while on base... you would fly right past getting no closer than 2.1 miles. ;)

But all of this is just opinion without some regulation or other official guidance. Is this stuff written down anywhere? I mean, if two tower guys disagree, how can a bunch of pilots figure it out? ;)
 
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2 mi base

Its been several years but the phrase "report 2 mile base" or sometimes "2 mile right base" was used commonly at KSGR. Because of the traffic and winds, it got planes in and on the ground quickly. Incoming traffic, especially returning student traffic would intersect and turn to base heading and report 2mi. The time difference between 2mi out and 2mi out on an extended base is small anyway and somewhat arbitrary unless you have an established ground marker or GPS. The key is that you and the controller know where you are supposed to be.

Dave A.
6AQB
 
Internet search last year came up with very little.

I had this exact question in flight training last year. I was told by my instructor to report 2 mi straight line distance from the threshold on my left base entry. Class C ATC did not complain. Another time solo xc at the same airport 10 mi out I was ask to report midfield downwind, but I was on a downwind heading that would have put me 4-5 mi from the airport. I thought I should have been maybe 1 mi from the airport before reporting, so I started heading in that direction. I was telling them "student pilot" so they were probably watching me closely. They told me to fly the downwind heading again even though I was going to be 4 mi from the airport on my downwind when I reported in. It was a little confusing because I found nothing written and very little on the internet. ATC was and still is very helpful/patient for this 95 hr low time pilot. There are so many written and unwritten rules. Just ask- ATC is there to help. Of course while in training I was a little intimidated and would not ask over the radio being afraid some high time pilot would hear me. Now I realize it is safer for all of us to just ask. We all have to remember what it was like in training- trying to fly and talk on the radio at the same time that first lesson or two.
 
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