What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

From Sonex to RV-8

UtahClem

I'm New Here
Hello,

Years ago when I first decided building an airplane was something I wanted to do, I was quickly drawn to the RV-8. As I started researching what it would take to build one, I started realizing that cost to build and the complexity was probably more than I could chew. I found myself migrating over to the Sonex, and after a Sonex builder took me for a quick hop around the patch, I was sold. It had great performance for the price and I was able to see past the somewhat odd look and overall lack of fit and finish.

Fast forward a few years and I am part way through a Sonex tail kit but have started to have a lot of apprehension about finishing. This is mostly due to my lack (and others in the Sonex community) of confidence in the AeroVee VW conversion. With the Sonex B models, the factory will now support several other more proven engine installations (Rotax, UL power, etc.) but that takes an airplane I was looking to spend 30-35k to get airborne to more like 50-60k. While I still feel the Sonex is a great little airframe, I can't see paying that kind of price for it.

So, I've come full circle back to the RV-8, which has always been the plane I wanted to build in the first place. I am going to order a set of preview plans and the practice projects and figure out what extra tools I'll need now that I can't just pull a bunch of pop rivets. Any other building advice/suggestions for a soon to be former Sonex builder would be appreciated.

Looking forward to the journey!
 
Welcome Aboard, Josh! (You'll also get this greeting from a guy in Nevada named Mike!)

I've been to the Sonex HQ for a weekend workshop. I won't say anything bad about that design. They run a class act, IMO.

I don't know about builders/flyers in Payson, but I do know there are some in the Woods Cross/Bountiful and even in the Ogden and perhaps Brigham City areas. Check out the Skypark Airport. I used to travel to Ogden on Shuttle business.

Best of luck in your RV experience!

Don

P.S. Josh, check out the "White Pages," a listing of thousands of RV enthusiasts worldwide provided on the front page of Doug's VAF News. Go to "Country," then find "USA," and then find "Utah."
 
Last edited:
Hi UtahClem, I've built an RV-7, and the wings and finishing a fuse of a Xenos motorglider -- basically a Sonex with glider wings. I thought building both planes was very similar; you use the same skills. The only major difference is pneumatic riveting the RV instead of pop-rivets in the Sonex. But that's not a big deal; after the first 100 rivets, you're an expert.
 
Firstly, welcome to the VAF world, Josh.

I can see your "value for money" mindset. Perhaps what's missing in your original post is whether or not you feel your pockets are deep enough to build an RV8. Keep in mind that your engine/prop combo could end up costing as much or more than your originally-planned Sonex.

While you might not like the cost of a new Rotax or similar powerplant, you won't like the cost of a new Lycoming any better. I say this only to help you ensure you are prepared for the level of commitment.

On another note, either airplane can be built with something other than a new engine, so that Sonex might be buildable for well under the $50K point.

The RV8 is a wonderful aircraft. But it's not cheap. One needs to be prepared for a finished project that's going to cost perhaps three or more times your initial Sonex budget.
 
Thanks for the quick replies and welcome.

Perhaps what's missing in your original post is whether or not you feel your pockets are deep enough to build an RV8.

Yes, financially I am on much better footing than I was when I first started down the road of building. It's not that I don't like the cost of a Rotax or similar, It just feels outside the original vision and mission for the Sonex, which is getting in the air relatively cheaply. And, while I don't plan on selling my finished airplane, I imagine resale value on a finished Sonex with one of these more expensive engines is going to be far lower than cost to build.

In the end I just feel I will be much happier over all with an RV-8, knowing full well it will cost quite a bit more to get flying. I appreciate you posing the questions though, and making me think long and hard about a decision like this.
 
Josh - it's good to see you doing the thinking before you make the fatal mistake of getting a flight in an RV8. If you were to fly in an -8 you would no longer be able to make rational decisions! :)

I don't have an RV of any description but my hangar co-owner has an 8A that flies like a dream. I chose to go a different route, building a Glasair Sportsman without ever having flown one. Zero disappointment there, but I chose based on mission, not purely on "fun factor". If I were making the decision based on "fun factor" the -8 would be very, very hard to ignore.
 
It's been a while, but I went through a similar process. Interestingly, in the end, the costs are about the same. The airframes are basically the same, ~$23K. Instrumentation can be the same, it's up to the builder. Interior can be the same, it's up to the builder. So in the end, the difference in cost is powerplant choice, prop choice, and panel choice(s).

You could build an 8 with a wood prop, a used mid-time engine, minimalist panel, and be very close to the same cost as a Sonex.

Tim
 
I procrastinated for quite some time on what to buy, building anything was not in my game plan at my age (in my 60's) I'd rather fly than build and after much research a Vans was the only machine for me. I like old school, metal and steam gauges. I had a ride/fly in the 6,7, F1 & sat in a 4, the latter way to limited for my planned missions.
I only wanted a conventional u/c as to me Vans look perfect in that configuration. I settled on an 8, IO360 & CS, just right, after near 40 yrs of driving planes the 8 is the best machine I've ever flown for what it is designed for,aging my skin via so many smile wrinkles!:)

Once you've flown an 8 life seems to take on a whole different meaning:)
 
Tim,

Yep, that's kind of what I've figured. At this point it isn't so much the cost difference that scares me, but rather the (real or perceived) more complex build process. Not just bucking rivets but, sealing tanks, priming (most don't prime the 6061-T6 Sonex), etc.
 
Last edited:
Welcome to VAF

Josh--------welcome aboard:D

Just jump in------------you can do it. Lots of help available here on VAF.
 
Tim,

Yep, that's kind of what I've figured. At this point it isn't so much the cost difference that scares me, but rather the (real or perceived) more complex build process. Not just bucking rivets but, sealing tanks, priming (most don't prime the 6061-T6 Sonex), etc.

We've built RV?s (drill from scratch, pre drilled, and match?drilled) and are now building a Xenos from Sonex. Don?t worry about the complexity of an RV - you?ll find that its a trade off between the simplicity of the Sonex product design and the more complete parts of the RV. Solid riveting? Just another skill, and not hard to learn. The R-8 will definitely be more expensive in the long run than a Sonex, but it is a more capable aircraft in the end. Both are good airplanes.

It comes down to what airplane you want, and what you can afford.
 
My RV-8A is at the Provo airport if you want to try the seating out some time. Still in test period (3.9 out of 40 hours), so can't offer you the $XXk "free ride".

I did build mine for under $50k, but that is older mid-time engine, fixed speed propellor, no lights, no gyros. Basic day VFR panel. That also includes 20 year old kit prices as I am a very slow builder.

It will burn more gas than a Sonex, and will cost lots more once engine overhaul rolls around.

PM me for contact info.
 
I would encourage you to look real hard at your mission (how you plan to use the airplane). No doubt the RV-8 is a great airplane but it might be far more than needed. An RV-4 might be sufficient at a lower cost (possibly). If it were up to my heart, I would be flying an F4U Corsair (or maybe a Radial Rocket) cause that's what I love. However; reality dictates otherwise.

I spent decades building/working on/flying behind alternative engines (VW & Subaru). Since I started flying behind a Lycoming (RV-3B and RV-4), 6-8 years ago, I have spent many orders of magnitude MORE time flying. All of that time has been quite "comfortable" (not worried about the engine) and over some very inhospitable terrain (over which I would never fly the VW/Subaru). I think the VW & Subaru (and a good many other alternative engines) are great engines. The problem is packaging them for aircraft use and the time required to make that package bullet-proof. The biggest problem, IMO, with the VW is that it was never designed to produce the level of power than many aircraft applications demand. About like taking a 160hp O-320 and demanding 320 hp from it. How well will it hold up, how well will it cool, how long will it last?

Sorry... I've probably turned this into an engine debate. That was not my intention. I was only attempting to note that the higher initial investment of a Lycoming will pay great dividends in more flight time, less stressful flight time, and less maintenance time - based on my decades of experience.
 
Keep in mind too, the cost of ownership and operation of an RV 8 is going to be significantly more than an aerovee powered Sonex. So its not just the acquisition and building costs to consider. However, having said this...if money is an issue just pay for it as you go. If you do it that way and never borrow money to build it well then you aren't financing anything as you pay to operate it and your "felt cost of ownership" goes down. It just may take longer to finish.
Its all doable. You just have to ask if you're willing for it. The aerovee powered Sonex and the Lycoming powered RV8 are two entirely different aircraft. I say dive in, take your time, pay as you go and get what you want. Good Luck!
 
Agreed.

You will get a lot of pride out of learning the new to you skills that it will take.
I liked doing it the old fashioned way with jigs and one rivet at a time. With buying the parts and tools as we went, it was very stress free and a good lesson of how to think your way throw each task needed.
You already have the biggest step behind you; there will be someone here to help.
You will be just fine, I can tell, as many of us have been there too.
Yours, R.E.A. III # 80888
 
Back
Top