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Harzel CS Propeller maintenance.

ariel_arielly

Active Member
Dear fellows,
As well as I know, there is instruction that the propeller should be overhauled every 6 years.
I'd like to ask you, if it is a mandatory requirement for AB aircraft too?
Thanks
Ariel Arielly
RV8A 4X-OAA
Israel
 
On the other hand...

when I had my prop looked at there was a lot of corrosion - enough such that I bought a new prop.

But the old prop worked well and looked great from the outside.
 
Ariel

Here in the UK we can opt to do a lesser inspection were the prop is stripped and inspected. Without necessarily doing a full NDT, paint stripping and cold rolling the blades.

Both times my prop has been inspected they found corrosion in the bearing races.
(I’ve now had the shop change to the latest nyco synthetic grease)
The prop is then reassembled with new seals.

Certainly worth talking to a prop shop to see what options are available.

Regards

Peter
 
The rules in Israel are likely different than the ones in the US. I’d suggest calling your local aviation office to check.
 
In my opinion, if I had never personally had the prop checked e.g. bought the plane built - like I did - or bought the prop used, or the prop was stored for a substantial chunk of time etc., I'd get it checked at the next checkpoint.

Then you have a solid starting point from where you can make decisions.

After I bought the plane the 6 year checkpoint appeared and since I did not personally know the condition of the prop, I had it thoroughly checked.,

I needed a new prop.
 
Last edited:
scary &#@$&

If you don't personally know the age and condition of your prop, then the money you save by not getting the knowledge won't be needed after your plane is here and the parts or prop are over there.
Oh ya the plane won't fly worth a hoot after the prop or better yet parts of the prop depart the plane.
Enjoy the reason money will get you peace of mind.
Mine was just overhauled four months ago and it cost $3,200.00. They found nothing wrong, just rebuilt it.
My three cents worth Art
 
Dear fellows,
As well as I know, there is instruction that the propeller should be overhauled every 6 years.
I'd like to ask you, if it is a mandatory requirement for AB aircraft too?
Thanks
Ariel Arielly
RV8A 4X-OAA
Israel

Hi Ariel,

As far as it being required, well that depends on Israel’s rules, as someone said above. Here in the US, it depends on what a specific aircraft’s ops Lims say - there was some verbiage added a few years ago that can imply that certified components be maintained to manuyfacturuier’s reformations, but the line item is….contentious, to say the least!

In terms of practicality, if the prop is flown regularly, and not living in a ridiculously harsh environment, the chances of a failure occurring because it wasn’t overhauled at six years, and that failure being catastrophic, are fairly low. However, while corrosion probably won’t kill you, it can make future ,maintenance much more expensive, so be careful about letting maintenance go. Hartzell parts are really expensive!

Paul
 
reseal IRAN

Your local prop shop should be able to describe the options available to you based on local aviation requirements.

Here in the U.S. I was flying a prop that was resealed in 2017, I had the log book entry, the paperwork and everything.

I lubed the prop at my first condition inspection after buying the flying RV-7, and something changed, it got a little sluggish.

Upon sending it to Sensenich Propeller for an IRAN (inspect replace as necessary) they found corrosion that I had disturbed by greasing the prop. Aparently it hadn't been maintained over the past 3 years and some corrosion developed on the bearings.

At the reasonable cost of $2400 I was able to get a clean bill of health and a known condition. New paint on the blades, new ball bearings and races, new seals...basically a new prop mechanically.
 

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My prop is at the 6 year mark and Hartzell just quoted me $2950 for an overhaul. But wait there’s more. They also said “make sure you reserve an extra $500-$1000 because there’s a chrome pushrod that will likely have to be replaced. So total bill will be around $4k. Ouch!!!
 
My prop is at the 6 year mark and Hartzell just quoted me $2950 for an overhaul. But wait there’s more. They also said “make sure you reserve an extra $500-$1000 because there’s a chrome pushrod that will likely have to be replaced. So total bill will be around $4k. Ouch!!!

That chrome pushrod…..yup, we needed a new one on “Mikey’s” last prop overhaul. $850 if I recall. And I know of at least one other overhaul that had the same thing. Minor plating damage, and it is toast. Seems like a standard replacement part at O/H!
 
Propeller Overhaul

Thank you all friends.
I asked the question since the authorities in Israel tell us, the builders, to follow the manufacturer's recommendations.
As well as I know, the rules for amateur built aircraft do not require builders to follow those requirements. And I asked just to make sure.
My propeller, as well as my engine, were both bought as "new" from Vans and regularity I maintain my A/C very very tight according to the Maintenance schedule as I wrote. The Maintenance Schedule says "On Condition" for both the propeller and the engine. I must say that the airfield where my A/C is hangered all the time when "no air is under the wheels", is in the southern part of Israel, which is actually desert and the humidity is "below zero". It means that there is no way to build any corrosion.
Anyway, I still wonder if it is MUST to overhaul the prop every 6 years? What the FAA regulations say?
Thanks,
Ariel
 
Thank you all friends.
I asked the question since the authorities in Israel tell us, the builders, to follow the manufacturer's recommendations.
As well as I know, the rules for amateur built aircraft do not require builders to follow those requirements. And I asked just to make sure.
My propeller, as well as my engine, were both bought as "new" from Vans and regularity I maintain my A/C very very tight according to the Maintenance schedule as I wrote. The Maintenance Schedule says "On Condition" for both the propeller and the engine. I must say that the airfield where my A/C is hangered all the time when "no air is under the wheels", is in the southern part of Israel, which is actually desert and the humidity is "below zero". It means that there is no way to build any corrosion.
Anyway, I still wonder if it is MUST to overhaul the prop every 6 years? What the FAA regulations say?
Thanks,
Ariel

Thanks for the clarifications Ariel. I think the honest answer is that the FAA doesn’t really mandate us to do it, or if it does, it doesn’t enforce it, becasue in talking with hundreds (or thousands) of builders over the years, very few people actually pull their props off and send them to the prop shop at 6 years. Some do, yes….but very few follow that schedule.

The only problem with “on condition” with a C/S Hartzell is that just by looking at the outside, you have no idea what the condition is on the inside, and neither does Hartzell or the prop shop - hence, the recommendation based purely on time. Unfortunately, that leads to a lot of expensive inspections that find nothing wrong, which is why people ignore the calendar time requirement and go longer.

Honestly, most guys will never reach the 2,000 hour point to have them torn down, and if they do, they will find a little more wear and need a few more parts that they might not have if inspected more often - but they didn’t; spend the money on those inspections, so they have it to buy the replacement parts…..

Paul
 
The FAA requires certain turbine engine powered aircraft, helicopter drive train components and Part 121, 135, etc. certificate holders to follow TBO requirements. FAR 91.409 outlines this, but EAB do not fall under 91.409 because their special airworthiness certificates are issued with operating limitations that define the required inspections.

EAB turbine powered aircraft / helicopters will likely have stated TBO / life cycle tracking requirements in their Ops limits.

EAB piston / prop powered aircraft do not, unless specific their operating limitations state there are mandatory TBO requirements. FAA Order 8130.2J outlines the process for determining this.

However, if you have an A&P doing your condition inspection, their interpretation as to what constitutes "in a condition for safe operation" may vary between "send it, it will be fine" to "it must be inspected per MFR recommendations".

The last three Hartzell CS props I have seen go to for a simple "re-seal", that were well below the 2000 hour TBO, spent there entire operational service life in a hangar environment, all had corrosion inside the hub where there is dissimilar metal contact (steel on aluminum).
 
Hi Ariel,
Just because you are parked in the desert doesn’t mean you are immune from corrosion. After shutdown your engine is full of water vapor. The propeller is a massive heat sink that will cool quickly compared to the thermal mass of the engine, which is enclosed within the cowling, limiting its heat loss. This makes the internals of the hub a prime condensation point for moisture as it will reach the dew point temperature first. If you are using avgas, you will have the salt lead bromide also floating around in the mix, and we all know salt+water=corrosion.

Tom.
RV-7, with an engine dehumidifier to try and limit internal corrosion.
 
I think I will think about sending my Hartzell CS prop off when it leaks or doesn't function properly. Previous owner sent it to the prop shop about 12 years ago. I fly it around 200 hrs/yr and grease it every 100 hours.
 
That chrome pushrod…..yup, we needed a new one on “Mikey’s” last prop overhaul. $850 if I recall. And I know of at least one other overhaul that had the same thing. Minor plating damage, and it is toast. Seems like a standard replacement part at O/H!

It was interesting that they asked me if this would be the prop’s first overhaul. When I said yes, that’s when they mentioned the expensive chrome pushrod would likely have to be replaced. Makes me wonder if the new pushrods are made differently.:confused:
 
Cleaning hollow shaft

Removed my prop yesterday to take to Hartzell for the 6 year overhaul. What’s the best way to clean out the hollow prop shaft? Acetone, MEK, alcohol?
 
Cleaning hollow crank behind C/S hub

Removed my prop yesterday to take to Hartzell for the 6 year overhaul. What’s the best way to clean out the hollow prop shaft? Acetone, MEK, alcohol?

I raise the tail...
Have some mineral spirits in a spray bottle.
Use many many shop paper towels.
a long straight blade screwdriver.
start poking to lossen the sludge...
use the driver and shop towel to absorb and drag out.
Also helps to place a trash can under the work area, for drag out and drop.
It does take a few minutes.
Also need a flashlight to check progress.
Ps...I have used Accetone......but mineral spirits work well and healthier.
 
Thanks Bob. I’ve got a wood dowel instead of a screwdriver. Didn’t want to risk scratching anything up. Some greasy silver residue but not a lot. Should clean up pretty quick. Tail is up with a slight nose down slope and I agree it makes it a lot easier.
 
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