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Let's Discuss Budget Building

I'd love to build a decked out RV-10, alas, well, the bank nor my wife will entertain that.

Move to an RV-12, easiest entry would clearly be build it to plans, awesome plane and arguably wise choice especially for a new builder. But again, sadly money talks. These glass cockpits are amazing indeed. Even more amazing is they cost more than the airframe. I'm not ready to strike out to build a fabric wing NORAD Cub, but simple vacuum gauges we learned on have served us well for years. Let's consider that.

So, here is where I'd like to hear creative options to get a flying aircraft. Call it cheap, thrifty, budget, whatever. Is the RV-12 the way to go, or move to a RV-9, or, or?

I've seen the video of an alternative Firewall Forward option claiming to half the price. Clearly would introduce some less smooth roads for the newcomer, but if the road has a map, well, we can follow maps.

So, any ideas? How cheaply has an RV been built? Can we do it again?
 
Building is fun, but if you're not dead set on the building process and you just want a flying RV, I'd suggest looking for a good used RV-4 or RV-6/6A.
 
No, I am definitely stoked about building and flying something I built myself. As cool as taking off is every time, taking off in something you built, I can hardly imagine.
 
Building an airplane, even an RV-12, is a huge project. I think you'd kick yourself if you invested all the time and money into building an airplane that wasn't really the airplane you wanted. So, save money until you can afford to get into the airplane you want.

The -4-6-7-8-9 can all be built for sort of the same money. A used O-320 for $10K, a second hand kit at a discount (probably a big discount if you find an RV-6 kit), a bare bones panel. It can be done.

For most people, an alternative engine is not on the path to success, with success being defined as a completed, reliable airplane.
 
Consider picking up a kit someone else has given up on.

Good way to save $$ and time.
 
$20,000 RV-4

Haven't added up all the items but major items (from memory):
RV-4 "kit"/project $8,500
Mazda 13-B Renesis factory-new engine $1,000
Radiators, oil cooler, throttle body, hoses, fittings, engine mount materials, engine controller, etc: Maybe $1,000
PSRU (2.85:1 gearbox): $3,000
Prop: $850
Status 1090ESG: $1,700
Dynon D-100: $1,500 (paid too much)
Dynon Servos: $1,000
Trim servos: $200
MicroAir M760Q: $400
Altimeter: $100
AirSpeed: $90
ELT: $90
DAR: $650
Hardware and other various items: ?
Time spent: priceless!
$20,080+

OK, so I busted my $20,000 budget, but have autopilot as a luxury. Was kind of a game trying to keep it below $20,000.

This was over a 15 year period (hauled the RV-4 "project" home in 2006 but didn't start on it until April 2017) and been really fortunate on a number of major items like kit, engine and prop.

At some point I might try adding up all the smaller items and expenses, but then again maybe not :)

I guess the point is if you take your time and wait for good deals, don't mind spending a lot of time doing your own alternative engine installation (added 1 to 2 years to the project -- I'm slow) and love tinkering with stuff it may still be possible to build a fantastic airplane for less than midsize car.

But if in a hurry to get an airplane to fly, this is not for you.
I may have a Mazda 13-B rotary powered 2003 RV-3B for sale for $32,000... :)

When it comes time to overhaul the engine (probably 2,000 hours which I'm unlikely to reach before I get too old to fly) it can be done for less than $500 in parts. And I burn regular 87 MoGas (try adding up savings there).

Finn
(on the fringe)
 
I think some ways to build cheap(er) are:
- think used/pre-owned/experienced/orphan/upgraded. It used to be called scrounging.
- inject sweat equity (labor) The older non-matched hole kits are much cheaper because of the extra man power needed. Slow build vs quick build saves money too.
- pick a less popular engine. The cool kids all want higher power options that come at a price. O-320's are cheaper than O-360's. I think the -9 supports something like an O-235. Less popular means less competition for good deals.
- hold off on the panel until the last then pick up equipment that someone is upgrading. You'll get stuff that is state-of-the-art now but will be much cheaper when it's one generation old.
 
I'm not sure words like cheap, thrifty, budget, etc. belong in the same sentences with "airplane". It's an expensive hobby however you do it. Having said that, the others are right in that if you aren't fixated on having everything latest, greatest and shiniest you can build one for less than is often quoted. Utilizing used parts and kits can help, as well as being willing (and able) to do much of the work yourself, including some of the more expensive tasks like panel building/wiring and paint. Look around and be patient, after 2 or 3 years of serious looking I managed to pick up all 4 RV-10 kits (slowbuild) NIB for slightly over half what they cost new shipped from Vans ...
 
Building schedule?

No, I am definitely stoked about building and flying something I built myself. As cool as taking off is every time, taking off in something you built, I can hardly imagine.

How soon do you want to fly? If you’re working 40 hrs/wk to eat, it may take 5-10 years to build an RV besides the -12. Look closely at required tools, workspace, your skills, and the trade-off of building time vs time with other activities like family time. You may save money by building, or may not...

IMHO... Full disclosure, I’m a satisfied buyer of two finished RV planes. Flying now has been my priority.

Carl
..
 
Low budget

Consider picking up a kit someone else has given up on.

Good way to save $$ and time.

If you don't mind waiting and watching classified like a hawk, you can build as cheap as you're willing.
Used tools
Started kits
Used low time engine and prop
Gently used avionics.
Probably still in the $75K range.
 
Thoughts you may consider....

Q: what is the most expensive thing during building an aircraft?

A: divorce!


I do not mean to discourage you, but:
-there is some truth in every joke
-building an aircraft is not the cheapest, nor the fastest way to get you flying
-the cheaper you try to go, the longer time it will take (scrounging for budget parts)
-the longer the build lasts, the more your wife won’t like it (as she is not supporting in the first place)
-don’t underestimate the time you will spend with your project


Get you wife onboard, not necessarily helping, but at least supporting (tolerating might not be sufficient).

I built a RV-8 Quickbuild, factory new Engine, Dynon Cockpit. So my project was definitely not build on budget. (Money helps accelerating your build, but will and effort are more important).
It still took me 10 years to finish......and i am still married, raised a family and built a house as well.

Good luck!
 
I have recently begun doing a similar thing. I could have just bought any RV, $$ was not the driver but that was not my mission with this build. This is a work tool for transportation and I have another airplane that is my baby.
I purchased a very nice 2003 era QB RV-6A that included a new in the box (newer) O-360. I feel like I got a great deal on it and the previous owner did an amazing job on the parts of the build that he started.
I have everything in an excel spreadsheet and believe I can finish it out nicely (new prop and heavy VFR glass panel) for around 55k. I am converting mine to a RV-6 so that added a bit of cost.
I am a repeat builder and do not need outside assistance so that helps.
My suggestion is to be realistic, allow yourself enough time and $$ to do it right. I have never regretted having nice engines and avionics in any of my airplanes.
To me the partially completed RV-6 represents the most bang for the buck in getting started. The later kits were pre-punched making them almost as easy as a new RV-7 kit.
 
The engine is the heart of your airplane so be sure you get a good one and that would be the last place I would try to save money. Lots of “deals” on used engines have turned into not so good deals after the engine needed tearing down. Everything firewall fwd is expensive, exhaust, coolers, prop and extension, mags or EI, probes, but most of that can be purchased used if you wait and watch. One of the posters got his Mazda engine going at a remarkable low cost. If you chose to go that route, do it only if you have the knowledge, skills and time. About the biggest factor is a girlfriend or wife that likes to help build and wants to fly.
 
Convince your wife

Others have pointed out that watching classifieds and buying used saves money. I can attest to both. I started this build when I was single, so I just had to convince myself, which took milliseconds.

That said, I wanted something to fly while building, and decided as much after I was engaged, so I had some convincing to do. Some of that convincing was telling her that airplanes seem to be demanding less of an asking price now that they have recently, which I think is true, whether or not it is. That point is probably moot as she probably doesn’t know and probably doesn’t care. It just helps to convince her that it’s an investment instead of a purchase, because after all, aircraft do tend to hold their value pretty well.

What you really need to do is convince her that an airplane will be of value to her. Here’s my story on that:

My wife is a veterinarian. Her mother wanted to buy a horse and wanted her to look it over before purchase, which would be easy except for that it’s a 5 hour one way drive. Not exactly something my wife wanted to do. I rented a plane and flew her down to look at the horse and back. It was about 1:20 each way. Immediately after landing she said “I could really see the value in an airplane, how long until the RV-8 is done?”. Three months later we owned a 172.

Maybe just offer to fly her somewhere that would otherwise be a lengthy drive. She just might get on board.

On a sidenote, you could purchase a flying airplane to get your flying fix, and purchase it on the cheap, then you will be less concerned with finishing the RV-X in a hurry. Then you don’t have to be near as budget conscious while building and can build as you pay for it and not miss out on flying.

As others have said, used parts, engines, minimal panels will certainly help you too.

Good luck!
 
My suggestions:
- find a partially built project. I saved about 40% off the cost of my wing kit.
- glass panel. This one sounds a bit odd, but a single screen basic panel will cover almost everything. I'm seeing a lot of not-very-old panels being sold and replaced by the latest and greatest. While the latest and greatest is really nice, it's not in my budget either. Buying individual guages isn't cheap either.
- learn about engines. Good used ones are out there if you're not picky and know what to look for. If a good deal comes along on a basic O-320, but you wanted an IO-360, compromise.
- fixed pitch prop. They're massively cheaper
- paint it yourself. Do you want the plane to look good from 10' away, or when somebody grabs the magnifying glass? That embarrassing paint run, or thin area won't be noticeable from 10' back. A scheme that's predominantly white, with one other colour.
 
Hate to say this since I'm nine years into my RV-3B project, but the cheapest airplane is probably a used one, and that includes certified.

Split your goal up so that one goal is to fly and the other is to build a plane. That removes the time pressure from the project and lets you wait for bargains. Later you can sell the flying airplane and recoup that cost.

One thing I've found is that trying to save money on things like shop, tools and the like, costs more in frustration and poor work than it's worth.

Dave
 
A couple things

I built my RV-4 on a very tight budget..less than 25K, BUT, I did everything including engine rebuild ,paint,interior and all steam gauges. Nothing fancy. It met my goals, visions and the end result was very rewarding. It took 15 years, life stuff not shoved aside. I LOVE building, but its not for everybody. Over the last 11 years of flying it, I have also mentored/assisted a half dozen or so people in re-habing partially started ,abandoned or flying aircraft that took way less time to get flying. They are all equally as happy and didn't have the dollars spent that you will with a new kit. Unless your passion to build and dedication to go low cost is overwhelming, I would seriously watch the used market and find some locals with flying RV's willing to demo ride you..make sure you want what you think you want before diving in. There is no doubt you will get the grin.
 
Make sure you can afford to own a finished plane if budget is a concern. Sadly, I have heard of several times where hangar rent and insurance quickly forced a longtime builder out of the dream. While building you can wait while you save money for the next stage. When the plane is done, that hangar rent and insurance are there constantly. About the only way to get around this slightly is to tie down outside and live with the drawbacks of an unprotected plane. So, if the $5-10K annual ownership costs are too much it won't matter how much you save building the plane.
 
Started and abandoned projects, glass avionics that are 2 or 3 generations old and well cared for "core" engines are the key to an inexpensive RV build. That keeps the thread within the realm of the RV forum...

The best "bang for the buck" build is a previously flown Tailwind project. Not hard to have a capable, 2 place, 160+ MPH cross country machine "like new" for $25-30k.
 
Yup.

A well-built, well-used, steam gauge -6/6A is perhaps THE great value in all of general aviation.

Building is fun, but if you're not dead set on the building process and you just want a flying RV, I'd suggest looking for a good used RV-4 or RV-6/6A.
 
I have about $60,000 in my project, but that includes a decent glass cockpit (1 generation old), autopilot, new IO-360, CS prop - everything but paint. I still need to buy a few odds and ends - expecting to add a couple thousand to that.

But..... this also includes a VERY nice C-140 that I am flying while building.

I figure I will be in the -7 for about $40k when it’s all done. Could have easily saved $5k going fixed pitch and another $5k by going steam. The catch is that it has taken years of deal hunting and I bought some stuff during the recession when projects were being practically given away. Bought several projects for components/tools/engine/panel/etc. and resold the airframes...

I think you could realistically go with a -6, fixed pitch, steam, O-320, very basic, and keep it under $35k if you are willing to scrounge.
 
Check out Kitplanes article

The $30,000 RV-9A
Yes, Virginia, it is possible to build an airplane for less than the price of a new car.

By Marc Cook -March 10, 2008



Also,... poke around this site,...and find how Doug saved to be able to build,...Paying cash as he built
 
Consider a partner

I haven't seen anyone mention it, but consider a partner. Splitting the costs can be rewarding and allow two people to build and fly a $75,000 plane for $37,500 each.

Consider that insurance will be cheaper when you fly an A model.

Splitting hangar costs and normal maintenance costs is also a benefit of a partnership.

I know of guys that have built and owned planes in a group of three or four. Be sure you all lay out the expectations and understand how things will be built, the standard that is expected, and who will apply for the repairman's certificate.

Best of luck in your endeavor.
 
Define "inexpensive" ?

My definition of the "cost" of something is

"The difference between what I had to pay out to (buy or build) it and how much of that sum came back to me when I eventually disposed of it."

I consider all the running costs (fuel / hangar / insurance etc) as "the cost of having fun" in much the same way as I would buying a cinema ticket or pay to go on holiday etc. These costs are what they are, don't expect to get them back, and judge their value on a "cost versus fun had" basis.

What's really great about virtually any RV is the way that they retain their value. Here in the UK at least they are the next best thing to an ATM for being able to get your investment back at the drop of a hat (not that I would ! .... but reassuring to know). Offhand, I really cannot think of a better aircraft for retaining it's value .... (come to think of it, a Piper Cub maybe).

Often the difference between Buy / Build versus eventual Disposal is very small indeed.

Try comparing it to Cars, Bikes, Boats, Jetski's etc etc etc - I'm pretty sure the word "inexpensive" will soon spring to mind.
 
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Here's my 2 cents:

1) If you already have a good rep as a scrounger and a "do-er", than by all means, you may be able to build a great airplane for a lot less that many of us. And, get it done in a reasonable amount of time. But, these are not skills you suddenly develop when you decide to build an airplane.

2) The most expensive part of building can very well be time.

-Kits and materials are not getting any cheaper.
-Avionics changes so fast, that anything bought today may be well on its
way to being obsolete before you ever get to use it.
-Time must be spent IN THE SHOP WORKING ON THE PLANE. So, you might
want to make sure that's not going to cost more in other areas of your life
than you are willing or can afford to pay.

3) If I had it to do over again, I'd:

-Buy all Quick Build. Buy the wings/fuselage/finishing kit as soon as
the empennage is finished and I've decided to continue; but, not engine
or avionics.

-Buy a new engine and prop through Van's. Plan out purchase for "just-in-
time" delivery. (my "amazingly good deal" engine is DOA for a cranshaft.
I will have enough into this engine to have had a brand new Thunderbolt.)

- Buy Avionics only when I'm ready to start installing it. Then, buy the
stuff I really want.
 
After tossing and turning last night, I decided to leave a comment on this thread because I know the feeling of being on a budget! :cool:

I bought and built my RV-7 when I was still living in South African where our currency is 15 times weaker than the mighty dollar. (I kid you not - blame it on the politicians) Anyhow, the ONLY way I could afford getting an airplane was if I did it piecemeal. You should not look at the project cost of the entire build upfront. I repeat - YOU SHOULD NOT LOOK AT THE PROJECT COST OF THE ENTIRE BUILD! Come to think of it... It's kinda like life. Look at it one step at a time.

Anyway, I digress. Just ask yourself, "Can I afford the empennage kit?". The empennage kit of the RV-7 is $2000. If a South African could afford that, then surely you can. Actually I bought a partially built kit from a guy in Texas. I didn't save that much money but definitely saved time.

Then, the engine, like someone said, is the heart of the plane. I did buy a brand spanking new Lyco O-360. But now I know I can trust that block of metal spinning the prop in front of me. If you could find a core somewhere and have it built up by an outfit you trust, I'd go that route too. Also, start with a fixed pitch prop. But again, you don't have to worry about that now. Just think of the empennage.

The avionics. Steam gauges will work out just as expensive, if not more than a good, reliable glass panel. I bought a second hand G3X legacy, non-touch panel for $1400 and the LRU kit new. Also bought a second hand GTX-327 for a few hundred bucks. Saved a packet there. I installed a mini-ipad next to my G3x and wôlla, I could see traffic and weather on the Foreflight app. Think my panel cost me less than $5000 all in all.

So, now my plane is worth a cool $110k. A big reason for that is the fact that my airplane engine, prop and airframe times correspond nicely. So, I also saw it as some sort of a savings scheme. If I didn't spend the money on my plane, I would've probably spent it on booze. Now, that would've been an expensive mistake!!

Either way, you can do it. Just take it a step at a time.
 
Here's what I did:
Buy a partially built kit.
Rebuild a core engine.
Install a fixed pitch prop.
Day/night VFR steam gauge (used) instruments.
GTX 327 (refurb'd).
GDL 82 ADSB out.
(1) Garmin 200 radio.
No paint.
Plain cloth seats.
No rule says you have to get all new anything. Like many other posters have mentioned, there's a lot of older gen glass getting sold relatively cheap.
Many ways to get in the air without a huge budget.
 
I think there is a difference between building with least cost and budget building.

Good tips already for reducing cost, but on the budgeting front i saw a good post on this forum about budgeting a build. https://www.vansairforce.net/how.htm

In my case I don't have $60K+ to drop on a complete, ready to fly, airplane in kit form. I do have a budget that says I have x amount of unused, or savable income each month.
I ordered a tail kit, fully paid for, and started building to see if I could do it. When I was happy with my results I ordered the wings, I don't have the money for them, just the deposit, but knowing my monthly building budget, I will have the money when they are ready to be crated. this process continues with each kit, which is one good reason they come in separate kits.

I guess my point is the airplane isn't expensive when broken into parts as Vans does. You can reasonably estimate your build time based on how fast you build the tail, and based on this you can see when to order the next kit and how long you have to save to pay for it.
 
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