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glass cockpit systems compared

pylotttt

Active Member
Hi all,
Just bought my RV-6a. I want to upgrade from steam gauges to EFIS.

I currently have a six pack, single axis autopilot, bendix kln 35a, klx 135a, garmin gtx327 transponder with no adsb, a single point egt/cht probes, a davtron oat/voltage/density alt/pressure altitude indicator, and a narco cp-136 audio panel.

I would like a 10" EFIS system with waas gps, synthetic vision, engine monitoring, 2 axis autopilot, adsb in/out, remote com radio, with all wiring/connectors.

I am considering Dynon, HDX, GRT, MGL.

I plan on doing the install myself.
I looked at the Garmin but it appears when you buy their product all you get is "connector kits" which consist of the connectors and bare pins, so all harnesses need to be built from scratch.

Of the other systems, which is the most complete, being closest to plug and play (easiest to build)?

Are all the EFIS panels comparable in quality of display, ease of use, and functionality?

How difficult would it be to connect my existing transponder to the system?

Are most of the system interconnects sold with pre made wiring harnesses , cables terminated at the connector on one end and needing wiring at the other to enable cable length, or as just bare connector/pins kits that need to be wired point to point?

If I want to set up the system with 1 EFIS but have a spot on my panel to add a second at a later date, what is needed? Is it something that is plug and play or are there additional interfaces required?

I live in Arkansas. Is there anyplace that I can go to see the systems mockup or demo?

Thanks for the help,
Rob
 
Of the other systems, which is the most complete, being closest to plug and play (easiest to build)?

Take a look at GRT, they will check a lot of your boxes. https://grtavionics.com/product/horizon-10-1-efis/

Are all the EFIS panels comparable in quality of display, ease of use, and functionality?

This is pretty subjective, I suggest you try to get a look at the various setups yourself, then form your own opinion.

How difficult would it be to connect my existing transponder to the system?

GRT has a supplement for hooking up the GTX 327. https://grtavionics.com/product/horizon-10-1-efis/
 
Hi all,
Just bought my RV-6a. I want to upgrade from steam gauges to EFIS.

I currently have a six pack, single axis autopilot, bendix kln 35a, klx 135a, garmin gtx327 transponder with no adsb, a single point egt/cht probes, a davtron oat/voltage/density alt/pressure altitude indicator, and a narco cp-136 audio panel.

I would like a 10" EFIS system with waas gps, synthetic vision, engine monitoring, 2 axis autopilot, adsb in/out, remote com radio, with all wiring/connectors.

I am considering Dynon, HDX, GRT, MGL.

I plan on doing the install myself.
I looked at the Garmin but it appears when you buy their product all you get is "connector kits" which consist of the connectors and bare pins, so all harnesses need to be built from scratch.

Of the other systems, which is the most complete, being closest to plug and play (easiest to build)?

Are all the EFIS panels comparable in quality of display, ease of use, and functionality?

How difficult would it be to connect my existing transponder to the system?

Are most of the system interconnects sold with pre made wiring harnesses , cables terminated at the connector on one end and needing wiring at the other to enable cable length, or as just bare connector/pins kits that need to be wired point to point?

If I want to set up the system with 1 EFIS but have a spot on my panel to add a second at a later date, what is needed? Is it something that is plug and play or are there additional interfaces required?

I live in Arkansas. Is there anyplace that I can go to see the systems mockup or demo?

Thanks for the help,
Rob

I had my wiring harnesses fabricated at Approach Fast Stack for my all Garmin system (3 screens and a GTN 650 with autopilot). They were awesome. It's as close to pug and play as you can get. They are labeled, fabricated to the length that you order and you get drawings of all the pin outs for reference. All you would do is connect the positives, the grounds, and connect the plugs to the boxes. I have had no regrets going that route.
 
1. I’m another happy GRT customer. But they’re all good. (I worry about service from MGL — South Africa is a long ways away!)
2. I’m sure you can find a Garmin dealer who will fab a harness for you, if that’s what you want.
3. Consider wiring it yourself. It’s not hard. Even if you do buy a pre-made harness, you still have to do the hard part — measuring (3 times, don’t get it wrong!) the wire lengths you need for every single wire.
 
GRT stuff is top notch, reliable, and supported. I was a garmin guy before i bought my 9 that had older grt stuff in it. I’m upgrading right now, to the newer GRT stuff. Bang for the buck it’s a solid deal.
 
EFIS

Good morning all, I have had excellent experiences with GRT. In my RV9 I had all GRT. I am told by my technological friends, that there isn’t much to choose between any of the companies as far as quality. They all use much the same bits and pieces. Where the difference lies is in the technical backup which has been both excellent and fast. They return calls promptly and for the first one spent hours with me tracing difficulties that I had, mostly self induced.....read the instructions Brent! I also had the EIS engine monitor system with that. On the other hand, while test flying my friend’s aircraft with Dynon, I had a complete screen shut down in flight which could happen to any of them, but his tech service was very slow.

I my present RV8 I have gone all GRT as far as the EFIS is concerned, but have a JPI 930 stand-alone engine monitor unit which suits me better. I would strongly recommend NOT having all engine monitor information on the EFIS. When I was faced with the dreaded black screen on the Dynon EFIS I also lost the engine information.

On my RV 8 I selected the largest screen HXr. Although it looks very good, I think I would go for the 10 inch display if I did it again. It is less expensive and I think just as good visually.

If you would like photographs of my panel contact me separately....I can’t manage to download them here.

GRT will be an excellent choice. I wouldn’t consider anything from outside the country!! I would prefer to avoid Garmin, they aren’t very customer friendly in my experience. Good luck with your choice, you will enjoy flying with an EFIS once you get used to it.

Regards, Brent
 
EFIS etc

Just an additional thought. I selected all TRIG radiosand transponder, all excellent stuff, with superb customer service, BUT the models that I selected are proving difficult to synchronize with the EFIS. If you decide on GRT, I would recommend coordinating with them to use whatever radios and TXP that they know is easy to connect with the EFIS. For example I selected the Trig panel radio, but for some reason only the remote Trig unit will connect fully with the GRT EFIS......I don’t know why, but apparently there is some kind of incompatibility between them. As far as the autopilot, again talk to the GRT guys. Incidentally, they are also RV enthusiasts, I think RV6.

Brent
 
I installed a Garmin G3X touch system in my day vfr 9A earlier this year.
- I used my existing GTX327 transponder. The wiring diagram is in the G3X Installation Manual. I had the GTX firmware upgraded to the latest revision at my local avionics shop.
- Yes, either you or your EFIS dealer must build the wiring harness. I provided my dealer with a block diagram sketch with the approx distances between system components. You must decide ahead of time where you'll mount A/P servos, magnetometers, power sources, etc.
- You might/will have to disassemble one or more of the harness connectors anyway during an aircraft upgrade. Example - the 15 pin connector to the wing mounted autopilot servo doesn't fit through the 5/8" holes in the wing ribs.
- You'll be opening up connectors to wire up your transponder and OAT so purchase the connector pin installation tool and pin crimper tool.
So, to recap, it's not a difficult task to build a harness. I paid around for mine, but I'll do the next one from scratch.
 
Tough to do right now, but ---
What you need is an OSHKOSH, where you can see & get your hands on all the choices, or visit dealers that have examples you can try. Hands on is the only way you can determine which system best suits you.
 
AFS

I’m a fan of AFS. If you want to wire yourself, that is what I did. If you want a “plug and play” type of panel, you can always use their Advanced Panel.
 
If you are willing to travel to Louisville Kentucky area, we can get you some air time behind Dynon to evaluate, and as much ground time as you want.

If you choose Dynon we can help with that as much or as little as you want also.
 
Of the other systems, which is the most complete, being closest to plug and play (easiest to build)?
Advanced. They build you a complete panel and you install it in the plane. Great customer service too.
 
FWIW; I went with the DYNON SkyView system and after 7yrs I am convinced it was the right decision. YMMV

b3c2.jpg


 
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One of my airplanes has a legacy Dynon EFIS - D100.

My other airplane has three GRT EFIS, a Mini-X, an HX and a Sport EX.

My only beef with GRT is their technical documentation is weak.

The flexibility of their equipment and its ability to support third-party devices is phenomenal.

Simplicity of installation tips the scales in favor of the GRT gear for me... and of course there's also a significant price advantage for my configuration.

I recently had an opportunity to fly as PIC behind both a new MGL EFIS and an AF5600. I found the MGL symbology and "buttonology" to be somewhat non-intuitive. By contrast, I found the AF5600 pretty much brain-dead-simple to use and I really enjoyed its symbology. Both the MGL and AFS screens offered excellent visual quality - stunningly crisp and clear.

This really is a choice you are best to make after getting some real "screen time" in a flying airplane. There's nothing quite like seeing the equipment perform in flight - that's when you might discover that you like the buttons on one box better than on another, for example.

You'll note I haven't mentioned Garmin. My favorite avionics brand is ABG... Anybody But Garmin. I really don't like their "big dog on the porch" business practices, always dipping deeper into your wallet for the feature or functionality that other vendors either include in the base price or offer for significantly less up-sell costs.
 
GRT

I bought my -7 with a GRT HXr installed. I have previously flown behind Garmin and AFS-both touchscreens. I like the GRT but haven't bonded with the buttonology of putting in waypoints or programming the autopilot. The touchscreens were more intuitive for me. I wish that there was more information on their web site about an upgrade. I need OSH!

They are all good.

John
 
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no bad choices

I think without flying your mission behind each of these it will be a hard decision. No matter which one you choose, it's probably going to be awesome. The competition today is intense, and the competitors are working hard to stay in the game.

I have a GRT Sport EX mainly because I originally bought their engine information system as part of an engine package. They work well together, and the GRT is well-supported by the team in Michigan. Not to mention, the value is excellent. I also have the pitch and roll autopilot servos which work great.

Wiring it was easy, diagrams are clear. Config takes an investment in time, because there are so many options. You just have to methodically go through the manual item by item. Took me several hours, with a bit of fine tuning after flying.

From what I've seen of my GRT and the other systems, you simply can't make a bad choice.
 
I didn’t see where you said whether this is to be a VFR or IFR panel. The main reason I ask is that all will require a separate IFR navigator, which could be either ILS or GPS. If the IFR navigator is going to be a Garmin GNS or GTN, I think the human factors are more consistent if the panel is all Garmin. BTW in my opinion, Garmin human factors are poor, but once learned it applies across their various systems. If you are just doing an ILS, or using Avidyne for the navigator the HDX or Advanced would be my choice.

If the airplane is VFR only, my personal choice is HDX, but Advanced is equally good.

The one thing to keep in mind is that Garmin’s repair philosophy is one price to fix anything wrong, and can be expensive, also the Databases are somewhat pricy, if that matters to you. Dynon’s database is free and the Seattle Avionics database for the sectionals and plates is something like $100/ year.
 
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GRT

I have an HX screen from GRT and it is a very nice system. I also have been flying a friend's plane with the Garmin setup. My take is that the GRT is similar to Android in the cellphone world. It does an enormous amount of things and is very cost effective. Exciting, fun additions such as heads up displays and heads up glasses come out and are affordable. I really liked the ability to use an Android screen as a wireless repeater for rear seat instruments. That was a nearly free way to get info to the rear seat. No need to buy second screens.

Garmin, on the other hand, is much more refined. Probably because their system was taken from the high end jet flight decks and adapted to fit the experimental world rather than coming from the experimental world (ultralight engine monitoring for GRT) and working up. I feel that difference for sure when using it. I'd say the Garmin is more like the iPhone in that it's not as open and I can't imagine them giving you any extra capability for free, but everything just works and works well.

My biggest problem with the GRT system is the interface with the flight director and autopilot. I've gotten used to it and use it all the time, but their lack of a dedicated control panel is a big downfall. The Garmin autopilot control panel interfaced to a G3X system and any of their IFR navigators feels rock solid and mirrors system functionality in much higher end equipment. I am very impressed with it.

My GRT system is awesome considering where it came from but doesn't feel like the Garmin and someone new to my plane who had flown with any system using an autopilot control panel would be cussing the autopilot inputs horribly. Trying to make quick inputs as you're getting clearance changes during instrument approach maneuvering takes a lot of practice. I've got over 1000 hours with mine and sometimes I still utter, "What's it doing now?" EFIS Nav versus GNAV, heading mode that won't change to approach mode even with ILS armed because it isn't in EFIS Nav anymore, auto selecting of a new mode with a screen timeout even though that's not what I selected, the list of oddities goes on and on. With all that said, it's still a fantastic system but it's very different from others. I'd recommend GRT for the pilot who wants flexible functionality, cost savings, and fun add-ons. If they ever fix the autopilot controls then I'd say they're top notch.
 
Touchscreens are really nice, BUT, in turbulence

they will really frustrate you! That is the main reason I went with the AFS5600T, with all the buttons and knobs. I have flown the other systems, (all great), but I am glad I went the direction I did. Support from AFS is second to none!

Ron
 
FWIW I've been flying with an MGL iEFIS for quite some time now..... in a Pitts.

Fastest bootup, alignment and acquisition time I've ever seen, and a very reliable product. They have a decent worldwide dealership (MGL USA support is excellent and I've used it a lot, and I don't even live in the USA!) but to be honest, if PCBs and chips aren't coming out of China, then it affects pretty much everyone's product no matter where you are.

They do a free USA nav database. While it is touchscreen, it is also controllable in the traditional way with soft-keys and knobs. Dealer's choice.

Common and understandable complaints are documentation, which is a bit all over the place (though there's generally good forum support, and tech support from MGL USA), and some people complain that it's "too customisable", which is true in that it is arguably more customisable in the way the screen displays information and the peripherals it will work with than many competitors, but you don't have to customise it if you don't want to. It does ship with stuff that "just works". Compulsive tinkerers like me just get suckered in.
 
The one thing to keep in mind is that Garmin’s repair philosophy is one price to fix anything wrong, and can be expensive, also the Databases are somewhat pricy, if that matters to you. Dynon’s database is free and the Seattle Avionics database for the sectionals and plates is something like $100/ year.

Garmin exchange/repair prices on G3X equipment is very reasonable, folks always say Garmin repair is expensive but they are generalizing it with the higher cost of certified equipment repair costs like the IFR navigators.

Garmin G3X yearly databases, for everything, is $149/yr.
 
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Garmin exchange/repair prices on G3X equipment is very reasonable, folks always say Garmin repair is expensive but they are generalizing it with the higher cost of certified equipment repair costs like the IFR navigators.

Garmin G3X yearly databases, for everything, is $149/yr.

That sounds a lot better than the databases ever were from my 496. If I wanted monthly updates for all databases it was something like $749/ year. Crazy. I selectively updated twice a year due to the cost.
 
Another reason I love my DYNON SkyView, the database subscription is.... FREE! Then get my IFR charts/plates on FltplanGo... also FREE! I only pay for the subscription to my G430W which makes me GPS IFR legal.

 
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There's commonly confusion on the database and pricing structure from Garmin. I just wanted to provide this database pricing link, where you can select your device and view the pricing options as a quick resource. Many of these are a yearly subscription that gives you 28 day cycle updates.

GPSMap 496 Americas (Including Canada): $299/yr. There is a $49 NavData one-time option as well.

G3X Touch: $149/yr Canada or US IFR Bundles, $49/yr for the US VFR Lite Option

Best Regards,

Brad
 
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GPSMap 496 Americas (Including Canada): $299/yr. There is a $49 NavData one-time option as well.

G3X Touch: $149/yr Canada or US IFR Bundles, $49/yr for the US VFR Lite Option

Best Regards,

Brad
Walt,
Agreed they are a lot cheaper now than they used to be. I think competition drove them to become more reasonable.
 
New Panel

I finally decided to go with the Dynon 10" HDX for my RV-6a panel.
I am getting 1 screen for now but will wire a second connector for expansion as funds are available.
I am getting -

2 axis AP servos w/install kits
AP panel
2 place intercom
knob panel
SV-GPS-250 GPS
UAVIONIX BUNDLE ECHO UAT / SKYFY-EXT ALL IN ONE ADS-B in/out
SV-ADAHRS-200
SV-EMS-220 engine monitor w/ lycoming L4C probe kit
DYNON EMS FUEL FLOW SENSOR
SV-Com-X25
1- Network Hub
1- wifi adapter
1- battery backup
FPS-PLUS WITH ELEVATOR TRIM


I am hoping to find someone that has mechanical drawings showing placement of components along with cable lengths that are needed to complete the install.
I'm looking forward to my new panel.
 
Note that the "free" Dynon databases do not include any charts.
Which is irrelevant since you need the actual IFR information (chart) within a certified navigator, which neither of them are.

Another reason I love my DYNON SkyView, the database subscription is.... FREE! Then get my IFR charts/plates on FltplanGo... also FREE! I only pay for the subscription to my G430W which makes me GPS IFR legal.

For our part 91 ops I get all the charts "FREE" with the FltPlanGo app, which you even quoted me saying. So, no reason to pay extra. YMMV

:cool:
 
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Which is irrelevant since you need the actual IFR information (chart) within a certified navigator, which neither of them are.
:cool:

What I mean to say is the Dynon free db does not include basic VFR charts/sectionals.
 
What I mean to say is the Dynon free db does not include basic VFR charts/sectionals.
Uhhhh yes it does. All required VFR information is there, just not in the standard FAA format to declutter the display. If I want the FAA format, then I see it on FltPlanGo. Both FREE

:cool:
 
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