gmcjetpilot
Well Known Member
Any thing to learn?
My thought is what could you do to avoid this. Well not knowing what happened, I know of a things I would do flying the East River that may not have been done. A few comments on Jekylls excellent perspective, which I agree with mostly.
QUOTE=Jekyll: Second, the fireball clearly indicates there was fuel on board, maybe lots of it. (They have the engine they will know if it was making power.)
Third, there is nothing wrong with flying in rain, the FAA was calling it 9 miles of vis. Visibility is just that. It may have been raining but, the vis was still 9.
(With respect, 9 miles is not super and local rain can cut that down to nothing. Than you say the following
Jekyll: I've flown the Hudson corridor many times to include the night the lights were out in NYC 2 years ago. I've never had the urge to venture into the East River corridor specifically because it ends and is very narrow.
(Lets not avoid the obvious, flying low, over densely populated areas, over water near obstacles in restrictive airspace, gives you less options, if we can take anything from it. May be Lidle wanted to sight see before flying out West. Flying lower has its risk, especially around obstacles, man made or natural.)
Fourth, the ceiling was higher than the top of the corridor so that was not a factor.
(Fair enough, I guess the class B floor is about 500 to 1100 feet, but lower vis and grey sky makes it harder to see. It may have been no factor? )
Fifth, he was with a flight instructor. His low time and experience is not relevant. It appears he recognized his limitations and the risks which he addressed through his WISE choice to take an instructor with him.
(May be? It also could have been required by his really, really, really big insurance policy and riders from the Yankees? Did the CFI and Lidle know each other? Just wondering what the cockpit dynamics where. I gather he got his licence somewhere else, may be with a different CFI and just bought the plane. I know it takes time to learn the "glass". Also Lidle may not have been doing much recent flying due to the playoffs. All little factors, each by them not critical individually, but they add up.)
Sixth, high performance aircraft or not, he was in cruise and the speed limit in the corridor is 140kts.
(I call it the rate of event control, known as the throttle, and the time maker lever, known as the flaps, slow down. Two words, Slow Flight. Gives you more time and smaller turn radius.)
Seventh, seems to me that he operated as a "smart athlete" by recognizing he needed an instructor for the flight. All pilots face unexpected system failure and the fact that the aircraft may have suffered some sort of technical failure CAN'T be ascribed to him being a "dumb athlete".
(Who was the PIC? It's not a given that the CFI was making decisions, since Lidle was current and qualified. Who knows what the cockpit dynamics where. The point is when flying with two qualified pilots, one has to be PIC and agreed on. You can change that during the flight but that has to be discussed. There have been many accidents from "I thought you had it!" The CFI may have flown this route daily for years; It will all come out in time.)
Eight, as for why they turned into a building , well, none of us were in the cockpit and don't know all the issues that led them to turn the way they did when faced with an emergency. Their mayday call indicates they were in facing an emergency.
(THERE Where no MAYDAY calls as first REPORTED. This is an interesting comment: )
Flying the Hudson is exciting. Dodging helicopters, bridges and populated areas. It is impossible to abide by the general FAA rule of remaining 500 above the highest obstacle within 2000 feet over a populated area, I guess the river really isn't a populated area though.
(The option to exercise that excitement may change ; sounds like a hand-full, even for an experience pilot. Knowing what I know now, I would not fly the East River knowing what I now know, unless there was a real need. I certainly would pick better weather. )
"General aviation aircraft are allowed to go about as far north as Manhattan's
96th Street. There, they must either execute a U-turn to avoid the restricted
airspace around LaGuardia Airport, or get permission from air-traffic control to
climb higher and continue north, or turn west over Central Park.
Lidle's plane collided with an apartment tower (20th floor) just a short
distance from that turnaround point."
My thought is what could you do to avoid this. Well not knowing what happened, I know of a things I would do flying the East River that may not have been done. A few comments on Jekylls excellent perspective, which I agree with mostly.
QUOTE=Jekyll: Second, the fireball clearly indicates there was fuel on board, maybe lots of it. (They have the engine they will know if it was making power.)
Third, there is nothing wrong with flying in rain, the FAA was calling it 9 miles of vis. Visibility is just that. It may have been raining but, the vis was still 9.
(With respect, 9 miles is not super and local rain can cut that down to nothing. Than you say the following
Jekyll: I've flown the Hudson corridor many times to include the night the lights were out in NYC 2 years ago. I've never had the urge to venture into the East River corridor specifically because it ends and is very narrow.
(Lets not avoid the obvious, flying low, over densely populated areas, over water near obstacles in restrictive airspace, gives you less options, if we can take anything from it. May be Lidle wanted to sight see before flying out West. Flying lower has its risk, especially around obstacles, man made or natural.)
Fourth, the ceiling was higher than the top of the corridor so that was not a factor.
(Fair enough, I guess the class B floor is about 500 to 1100 feet, but lower vis and grey sky makes it harder to see. It may have been no factor? )
Fifth, he was with a flight instructor. His low time and experience is not relevant. It appears he recognized his limitations and the risks which he addressed through his WISE choice to take an instructor with him.
(May be? It also could have been required by his really, really, really big insurance policy and riders from the Yankees? Did the CFI and Lidle know each other? Just wondering what the cockpit dynamics where. I gather he got his licence somewhere else, may be with a different CFI and just bought the plane. I know it takes time to learn the "glass". Also Lidle may not have been doing much recent flying due to the playoffs. All little factors, each by them not critical individually, but they add up.)
Sixth, high performance aircraft or not, he was in cruise and the speed limit in the corridor is 140kts.
(I call it the rate of event control, known as the throttle, and the time maker lever, known as the flaps, slow down. Two words, Slow Flight. Gives you more time and smaller turn radius.)
Seventh, seems to me that he operated as a "smart athlete" by recognizing he needed an instructor for the flight. All pilots face unexpected system failure and the fact that the aircraft may have suffered some sort of technical failure CAN'T be ascribed to him being a "dumb athlete".
(Who was the PIC? It's not a given that the CFI was making decisions, since Lidle was current and qualified. Who knows what the cockpit dynamics where. The point is when flying with two qualified pilots, one has to be PIC and agreed on. You can change that during the flight but that has to be discussed. There have been many accidents from "I thought you had it!" The CFI may have flown this route daily for years; It will all come out in time.)
Eight, as for why they turned into a building , well, none of us were in the cockpit and don't know all the issues that led them to turn the way they did when faced with an emergency. Their mayday call indicates they were in facing an emergency.
(THERE Where no MAYDAY calls as first REPORTED. This is an interesting comment: )
Flying the Hudson is exciting. Dodging helicopters, bridges and populated areas. It is impossible to abide by the general FAA rule of remaining 500 above the highest obstacle within 2000 feet over a populated area, I guess the river really isn't a populated area though.
(The option to exercise that excitement may change ; sounds like a hand-full, even for an experience pilot. Knowing what I know now, I would not fly the East River knowing what I now know, unless there was a real need. I certainly would pick better weather. )
"General aviation aircraft are allowed to go about as far north as Manhattan's
96th Street. There, they must either execute a U-turn to avoid the restricted
airspace around LaGuardia Airport, or get permission from air-traffic control to
climb higher and continue north, or turn west over Central Park.
Lidle's plane collided with an apartment tower (20th floor) just a short
distance from that turnaround point."
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