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Flight Through the Mountains

DadOf3

I'm New Here
Hello,
Does anyone have any recommendations for flight routes through the mountains? I will be planning a trip from Grand Rapids Michigan to Eugene Oregon. I am looking for some scenic yet safe routes.
I do not have O2 so I will be flying between 10.5 and 12.5. I am initially looking at flying along I90 and over Yellowstone park. There looks to be a few ranges aroung 11K ft near there though. I am planing 3 possible routes for possible weather avoidance. One right down the middle, Ine near the northern Colorado border, and one north near Canada.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
 
For the northerly route you mention, I would generally recommend following I-90 through the Rockies. It's a pretty good flight route and pretty direct. Once you get across the Rockies, to get across the Cascades you can...

1. Stay on I-90 to Seattle, cross Snoqualmie Pass then head south before you get to Seattle. If you choose this route, look for about 10K ceiling. It can be done lower, but probably wouldn't recommend it on a first try.

2. To cut the corner off a little, from about Spokane angle down to The Dalles, OR and go through the Columbia Gorge. This is the route most local pilots use if the ceilings are low over the mountains. Almost any summer or early fall day you can get through the Gorge even if the mtns are in the clouds. A good 4000 ft. ceiling is usually OK here, but would recommend you stop and land in The Dalles for fuel and ask an an FBO and/or instructor there about flying the Gorge. It's a good route, but you do need to be aware of the winds as well as wires crossing the Gorge in various places.

3. From Spokane (or wherever you cross the Rockies), angle directly to Eugene. However, I've never actually crossed the Cascades in N. Oregon (for some unknown reason) so I can't give any good advice here.

Have your camera ready when crossing the Rockies or Cascades. I lived in Ohio for four years before I was able to work my way back to the PNW. The the geography I live in now makes me wonder how I endured that geography. (I just need mountains to be happy)! It's beautiful flying! You'll have a great time! Good luck.
 
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It gets pretty high and rugged from Gillete, WY all the way to Yellowstone and south until you get to St Anthony, ID. If you plan on doing that route EARLY in the morning it might not be too bad. Wyoming is famous for high winds so be prepared. The southern route from to Laramie to Cheyenne to Rawlins has only one 8700' pass and then to Rock Springs and north to Yellowstone is an easy route mostly in high plains and big valleys. From Yellowstone go to Idaho Falls and straight accross the Snake River Valley over to Burns, OR and straight to Eugene. I flew from Twin Falls, ID to Roseburg, OR just north of Eugene last Sunday. There was a little bit of rugged country between Burns and Eugene but not really very high and there are lots of strips along the way. When are you going? One problem you might encounter around Yellowstone is a lot of smoke from the fires around here. Make sure you check your TFRs regularly as they pop up all over the place. Don
 
Buy, borrow, rent O2

Placing soap box front and center now. Climbing onto soap box...

Last year I had an occurence of altitude sickness. Altitude sickness is really horrible and the price of O2 is a real bargain compared to its affects. I experienced it after flying from Grady's, the Master painter at Roanoke, Texas at 10,500' with a stop at just outside Lubbock for fuel and then on to St. Johns, Arizona. The temps were very hot and I don't think I took in enough water which added to the problem. It turns out hydration is key to helping to prevent this condition and it affects different people at different altitudes. This is not hypoxia, or at least I never got the impression that my mind was getting dull. After landing at St. Johns I ended up in a seedy hotel room making deals with the almighty much like when young experiencing a hangover and hugging cool porcelin for hours. There is a terrable headache and vomiting. Lots and lots of vomiting. This lasted about 4 hours and then everything was okay. Thankfully while flying I could feel myself getting to a point where things were not good and knew to stop at St. Johns for the day. Taking the temps and the altitude put the density altitude into an area that physically took its toll over a long period of time. (4hrs or so) Really, you don't want this. Being August and having high temps all over the country a bottle of O2 should be in the plane for this trip for your comfort and also for your safety. I find that while the RV is a treat to fly it is also extremely capable and can get me into situations that are new to me. I would have liked to understand the effects of a flight like this prior to turning myself inside out. This oxygen issue and crossing the country at 10,500 was one of these learning events.

A few months ago while flying near Albaquerque at 13,500 the density altitude was 16,800'. The bride and I were on O2 until we could get down to 7500'. I'm a total believer now and would much rather pay to fill the bottle than ever go thru anything like that again.

Soap box put away... Hope you have a fun and safe trip.

Best,
 
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I usually cross the Rockies between Riverton, WY (RIU) and Malad City, ID (MLD) there is some fairly low territory in there. I can make it through there at 10,500 or so. Then it's a fairly straight shot over to Oregon. I can share out my OSH route on Aeroplanner if you want to check it out.
 
Right on

Bryan Wood said:
...Altitude sickness is really horrible and the price of O2 is a real bargain compared to its affects...

...A few months ago while flying near Albaquerque at 13,500 the density altitude was 16,800'...
Best,
Bryan hit the nail right on the head: altitude sickness is not only unpleasant, but also dangerous; and, it is all about density altitude.

The brain is like a normally aspirated engine and is greatly affected by density altitude. Density altitude affects the partial pressure of oxygen which affects the oxygen saturation of blood: higher density altitude means lower partial pressure of O2 and therefore lower O2 saturation of blood. So, if a pilot is flying at 11,500ft on a warm day and the density altitude is, say, 14,000ft---the pilot might see Elvis. :eek:

The cost of an oxygen bottle is pocket change compared with what most of us have spent on our RV's(and fuel). Protect your brain cells and those of your passenger.
 
Over or around is better

DadOf3 said:
Does anyone have any recommendations for flight routes through the mountains?

Keep in mind I'm no expert in mountain flying, but flying through the mountains seems pretty hazardous. Even when good tunnels exist, they tend to be narrow, dark, and can have unmarked turns. Worse yet, they often dead end rather than continuing all the way through to the other side. I don't think you'd save much time with a direct route anyway. Besides, mountains are much prettier on the outside than on the inside. Better to take a little longer getting to your destination and enjoy the scenery along the way.

Alex
 
I flew my Citabria along the Oregon Trail in June. You can still see the wagon ruts from the air in places. Never had to go over 10,000 following the trail. I flew I-80 coming back and had to go up to 11,500 a couple of times. If a Citabria can do it, should be a piece of cake for an RV. Here's the web log of the trip if you want to get a taste of the scenary.

http://www.pilotbill.com/OregonTrail/OT-PreFlight.html

... Bill
 
Mountain flying.

DadOf3 said:
Hello,
Does anyone have any recommendations for flight routes through the mountains? Thanks in advance.
Google "mountain flying". There are some incredible fantastic sites that give you all the bullet items to be aware of. It will be worth your time and add safety to your trip.


As far as route I glanced over the above and sounds fine, but I would not plan on flying below the surrounding terrain in passes if you are new to a route. I fly high and more direct. It has been a few years but have flown Seattle to Mid West below FL 350, but have flown my RV on several occasions over this route and don't recall making major deviations for terrain. I just draw a great circle route and connect the dots, the airports I will refuel at approx 500-600 sm. You may consider a real adventure if you have time and plan a camp-out stop at Johnson Creek Idaho (near McCall). It's right on your route, but less than 400 sm from destination. You can fly just a little south and go over RAP (rapid city ND) near the bad lands and mount Rushmore.

Your thread title: "Flight Through the Mountains"

The idea of flying low through a pass, gorge or valley sounds fun, but to fly low to beat bad weather, is a sure way to get in deep dodo. Nuff said there. If you want scenic by flying below the peeks, that's fine, but you can still get in trouble with winds, density altitude and wrong turns into blind canyons and rising terrain. Just don't get too low below the tops on routes you don't know or are well marked with a large road. Flying high is plenty scenic and you really can see more.

My soap box out, of course open a VFR flight plane (may not get ATC radar flight following low) and update your position with FSS from time to time. Day time, good vis and low winds aloft (less than 30 mph) are also requirements. I now mostly fly direct frankly. That is my decision, which has its rewards and risk.
 
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flybill7 said:
I flew my Citabria along the Oregon Trail in June...
Bill:

Holy cow. What an awesome trip that must have been. I'm a huge American history buff so this stuff is right up my alley. I've always dreamed of making a trip like this. Your pictures are AWESOME!
 
Oxygen GOOD

Bryan Wood said:
Last year I had an occurence of altitude sickness. Altitude sickness is really horrible and the price of O2 is a real bargain compared to its affects.
O2 is cheap when compared to a long headache or worse (someone mentioned seeing Elvis ... let's just hope it's the thin version and not the fat one ;)). There are some small O2 systems out there - Mountain High Oxygen for example makes some systems called "XCR", which are designed for sailplanes and hang gliders. Small cylinders and simple. There are plenty of other designs out there as well.

Your brain wants oxygen. Feed it.
 
oxygen?

With all this talk of oxygen, keep in mind, that if you live at say, 4500-6000' msl, then 10,500' is nothing as far as breathing without oxygen goes. Heck, I don't get affected at 12,500 either! :D

L.Adamson -- will fly through mountain passes, and have produced excellent photo's in the process...

Of course, I've took numerous mountain flying courses too.
 
Oxygen!

I too live at 5000'+ and have flown to 13,000'+ and have climbed 14K peaks with my brother without noticing anything. But keep in mind, it is like asking an instrument that may be broken, to measure itself.

One day I was discussing O2 systems with a friend, a long time pilot, CFII, A&P, IA, etc. He cautioned me against flying without O2 under certain conditions and offered me the loan of his oximeter for a little testing. You would be surprised what the O2 % in your blood is doing and you still "feel fine".

The FAA rules on O2 use are made for very good reasons and in some cases, it might be best to do better than them.
 
Hey Dadof3, looks like your thread has been hijacked. I guess you got the word on oxygen, did you ever get your answer on routes?
 
DadOf3 said:
Hello,
Does anyone have any recommendations for flight routes through the mountains? I will be planning a trip from Grand Rapids Michigan to Eugene Oregon. I am looking for some scenic yet safe routes.
I do not have O2 so I will be flying between 10.5 and 12.5. I am initially looking at flying along I90 and over Yellowstone park. There looks to be a few ranges aroung 11K ft near there though. I am planing 3 possible routes for possible weather avoidance. One right down the middle, Ine near the northern Colorado border, and one north near Canada.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

When do you plan on going? There is very heavy smoke all through Montana, Northern Wyoming and central Idaho and it looks like it's going to last another few weeks. My friend was in Butte, MT last week and elected to drive. He said the smoke was terrible and pretty much IFR. It is very smoey and hazey here in the Twin Falls area but still good VFR. Don
 
Subtle affects

BillyBob said:
One day I was discussing O2 systems with a friend, a long time pilot, CFII, A&P, IA, etc. He cautioned me against flying without O2 under certain conditions and offered me the loan of his oximeter for a little testing. You would be surprised what the O2 % in your blood is doing and you still "feel fine".

The FAA rules on O2 use are made for very good reasons and in some cases, it might be best to do better than them.
Hypoxia is so subtle, you don't know you are affected. Everyone is affected differently. Following the FAR's below 12,500' OK/12,500'-14,000' (30 min)/14,500' continuous is a good guide line. Part 135 is more restrictive, below 10,000' OK/10'k-12'k (30 min)/above 12'k continuous. For night I would use the lower limit, but again some folks should use O2 above 8,000' from a physiological standpoint.
 
Colorado Border Route

svanarts said:
Hey Dadof3, looks like your thread has been hijacked. I guess you got the word on oxygen, did you ever get your answer on routes?

OK since I was one (hijacker) who spoke on O2, here is my route feedback.

For the Northern Colorado border route, just follow I-80 through Southern Wyoming. Good fuel stops at Rawlins or Rock Springs. Depart I-80 at Rock Springs and head to Kemmerer. From there fly over the corners of Utah, Wyoming & Idaho (along with Bear Lake) and intersect the Snake River. Fly down the Snake River past Twin Falls, and follow the river on to Oregon.

Be careful SW of Twin Falls as there are some restricted areas.

bc
 
Hijack but fun

Try a mental math contest with a passenger at 14K. Although you are still a genious (until your turn) your opponent is quite entertaining. Especially interesting to watch their facial expressions as they grapple with seemingly simple problems. It is great fun.
 
Having just today come from northern Minnesota to Helena, Montana, I can vouch that smoke is a big deal. We flew in smoke haze from the ND border all the way across MT, but at most times, the vis was still probably 8 or more miles. The weather is more predictable than where the smoke will be. Have a look at: http://activefiremaps.fs.fed.us/lg_fire2.php to get an idea of how many there are going at the moment. In two hours Helena went from 10 miles vis to about 4 or 5. The XM map showing TFR's was worth its weight in gold today.
 
flybill7 said:
I flew my Citabria along the Oregon Trail in June. You can still see the wagon ruts from the air in places. Never had to go over 10,000 following the trail. I flew I-80 coming back and had to go up to 11,500 a couple of times. If a Citabria can do it, should be a piece of cake for an RV. Here's the web log of the trip if you want to get a taste of the scenary.
... Bill

Bill, what I just saw on your site is precisely why I'm building an airplane. Thanks for that - it was (almost!) as good as a ride.
 
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