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West Coast Ravens on Myth Busters

Mike S

Senior Curmudgeon
I just got the following email from Tim, tcone1 here on VAF.

Folks,

I recently had the pleasure and honor of leading a team of my friends in some formation flying for the television show Myth Busters. We’ve had to keep things quiet up until now, but I can now announce the date the show airs.

Tune into Discovery Channel’s Myth Busters on November 30th to see how big a dork I look like on national TV.

Timothy E. Cone



Congratulations Tim:D
 
They used our FBO here in Tracy as their base of operations for a few days while they were filming. It was quite a sight to see all those RVs in one place. Lots of fun. I can't wait to see the episode.
 
West Coast Ravens

The West Coast Ravens recently had the opportunity to do some formation flying that was more interesting than normal.

We were asked to do some flying for the television show Myth Busters. We've had to keep quiet about the show due to contractual obligations, but we can now announce that the episode airs on November 30th.

There were a bunch of VAF'ers involved in this shoot.

Tune in.

Discovery Channel November 30th. Segment title is "Flock Formation"
 
There are lots of good photos on Facebook. Do a search for "Tim Cone" and hopefully you'll be able to see 'em.
 
You'll see me in it too!

I do science advising for Mythbusters on various episodes, and they came to use some of our facilities for this program. You'll see me talking with the gang at our water channel.

I've seen the rough cut - the RV formation footage is fantastic. Don't miss it.
 
My guess is that there will be a VAF hat sighting or two if you look closely...;) [ed. Nice.]
 
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Maybe...

Are you saying that you and Ken both were wearing your VAF hat and not your same color FACTORY hat?

Joe, secret payment on its way. From Kitplanes awhile back....:)

sxi0c8.jpg
 
My guess is that there will be a VAF hat sighting or two if you look closely...;) [ed. Nice.]

Mythbusters is pretty aggressive about "debranding" their episodes by taping over logos and insignia, and where that isn't practical they often pixelate them in production. So if there's a VAF logo in frame it is possible that it will get fuzzed out.
 
Mythbusters is pretty aggressive about "debranding" their episodes by taping over logos and insignia, and where that isn't practical they often pixelate them in production. So if there's a VAF logo in frame it is possible that it will get fuzzed out.

True statement. So you may be able to see the hat but not the logo... :(


Joe, secret payment on its way. From Kitplanes awhile back.....


Still accepting secret payments from previous photos... ;)


[ed. If logo not in sharp focus, no soup for you! dr]
 
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There was a lot of gaffer's tape in the cockpits that were filmed in...It'll be interesting to see if a hat sighting gets blurred out...even if it does, we'll know it's there! ;)

It really was a fun event to be involved in...Steve did a great job setting up the science, helped us test the procedures, and was a great tech advisor as we practiced, then executed and filmed (great co-pilot too...we might even have set the hook for formation flying in his 8!).

Slick did a great job leading, before, during and after shooting (and was good on camera...natural ham!), and the Raven pilots had a great time throughout, even with a pretty arduous schedule on a couple really hot days (and the RVs performed great under the same conditions!).

Kari, Tory and Grant were a blast to work with (super nice and fun, just like they are on screen) and the whole production staff was great.

Looking forward to the airing, and we hope to represent GA, RVs and VAF well! Hope you all enjoy the science, the results, and the flying!!

Cheers,
Bob
 
Myth?

Can you say what the the myth is? Probably something about V formation efficiency would be my guess.
 
Can you say what the the myth is? Probably something about V formation efficiency would be my guess.

From the Mythbusters' schedule:

Nov 30, 9:00 pm (60 minutes)
MythBusters -- Toilet Bomb TV-PG

Adam and Jamie tackle a blockbuster bathroom bomb, while Kari, Tory, and Grant take to the skies to find out if a flying V works for planes as well as it does for birds.

-jon
 
I definitely saw the VAF hat. No "de-branding" noticed on this episode.
There were several references to our airport, and a great shot of our FBO, including the 40 foot sign with our website! :)

REALLY great exposure for RV''s.

Thank You to Tim Cone and all of the West Coast Ravens for your professionalism and positive exposure into the experimental world.
 
Nice job Ravens!

Hey Slick,

How about posting the names of all the participants? Very nice job by all.
 
Cool

Love it!

I wasn't really paying any attention to the 'science', but I thoroughly enjoyed seeing RVs in formation on TV!!!! VERY COOL!

Great work guys!
 
One more item that may have slipped by folks is the tie in with Steve Smith.

Steve is the one who was doing the scale demo of the tip vorticies in the water tank.

He designed the airfoil for the RV10.

For those of you who read the article in Sport Aviation, there is a mention of "the Smith airfoil" in the paragraph about stalling the RV 10.
 
Great job guys!

I used the show viewing as a way to narrow down my decision between SBS and tandem RV models. I would pause the show on each of the planes and ask my wife and son which one they liked best. My son is all in for an RV-8 taildragger while my wife still says, "I won't be doing that kind of flying in something you build" :eek:

Is it just me, or is there a secret message there?

Regardless, this show will be on "permanent save" on my DVR for multiple future viewings!

Thanks again guys!
 
Focus on flying...

So besides the complexities of flying through the wake turbulence, someone even had the added distraction of maintaining focus while having Kari on board. That is total focus and dedication to task. :D

She's too yummy for words. :rolleyes:

I saw the episode preview, flipped out, and dragged the wife over while explaining that they were all RV's. She understood, but wasn't as thrilled as I was that RV's were a feature of Myth Busters.

Yet another reason to buy the next season of Myth Busters. Have the first 6 seasons and never miss an episode when aired. If science was that fun when I was in school, I would have paid better attention.
 
Formation pilots

Slick
Goose
Nasty
Shady
G-Force
Tardy
Dula
KK
Rodoc
Spike
Tank

Slick - Tim Cone
Goose - Sean Farrell
Nasty - Bob Mills
Shadey - Joe Blank
G-Force - Dave Richardson
Tardy - Chuck Newman
Dula - Mark Dulaney
KK - Ken Kreuger
Rodoc - Dave Leonard
Spike - Scott Randolph
Tank - Tim Redden

A great bunch of qualified pilots who have all hold FFI Wingman cards or above. Great organization by Slick and Nasty who did the lions share of the organizing on this. Well done!
 
MythBusters, RV's and GRT Avionics

What a great episode! My son and I watch MythBusters for the science and comedy of it all. What a better way learn science and watch TV at the same time.

I never thought I would see a GRT Avionics Horizon EFIS on MythBusters though; three different times, no less.

Thank you West Coast Ravens for bringing RV's, flying fun and "science" to the main stream. What fun!

Carlos Fernandez
GRT Avionics
 
Does anyone have a copy of the show they can email me? I had to work late and forgot to record it. :(
 
Does anyone have a copy of the show they can email me? I had to work late and forgot to record it. :(

I am in the same boat but I do not have Cable or SAT TV. May pay the $2 or $3 to get it from iTunes but may just wait to see one of the DVDs that were recorded.

Yes it is on iTunes. Someone posted the link elsewhere.
 
Bill, it's available as a download via iTunes for $2.99...another way of getting it (and commercial free!) (whooops, I see others beat me to that post!!)

For more info on the science behind the experiment, take a look at Steve Smith's thread here: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=79555

I added some obeservations from the experience, including the planning and practice that went into it up front. It was a project 4 months in the making, and we went at it very carefully! Brian, the line abreast flying was challenging, but approached carefully, and I describe that a bit there too.

The pilots all did a great job flying, and the production staff and actors were wonderful to work with. It was a great experience!

I do wish all of us were in the credits!! :eek:

Cheers,
Bob
 
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I'm curious about the rigging of the various cameras mounted inside and and out...

How was this done? What type of cameras? How long did it take to get ready for this filming? What went into the planning with the program producers? And what about the intercom set up? Was that seperate from the pilots so they weren't distracted from flying when the "actors" were freaken out at times?

Just curious about the behind the scenes stuff.

Steve
 
Bill, it's available as a download via iTunes for $2.99...another way of getting it (and commercial free!) (whooops, I see others beat me to that post!!)

For more info on the science behind the experiment, take a look at Steve Smith's thread here: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=79555
...
Thanks everyone, I didn't even think of looking at iTunes for it.

Bob, I agree with you, the science is very cool and I had already read that other thread with great interest!

As a kid, watching the flocks of geese head north in the spring and south the fall in Northern Michigan was always a thing of wonderment.
 
Thanks everyone, I didn't even think of looking at iTunes for it.

Bob, I agree with you, the science is very cool and I had already read that other thread with great interest!

As a kid, watching the flocks of geese head north in the spring and south the fall in Northern Michigan was always a thing of wonderment.

iTunes Canada is not showing it In a search. Can someone post the direct page link.
 
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cameras, intercoms, planning

Several of the airplanes had GoPro cameras on the wingtips. The Mythbusters crew made some brackets that picked up the screws that hold the wingtips on. For different segments, the cameras were aimed differently to capture the different formations. The chase/camera-RV had a hand-held, production-quality camera with a Mythbusters cameraman. They had also scheduled a helicopter for camera work, and that was kind of a story in itself. The "beauty shots" from the helicopter were to be at the end of a long day of flying, and it was hot (like 100F) They got the Mythbusters camera guy all set up in a safety sling in the open door of the helicopter, and took off. The Ravens set up for a fly-by of the hovering helicopter, and just as we approached, the helicopter had a yellow overtemp warning light on his gearbox (its ALWAYS the gearbox!) and had to land. I think we were secretly glad that happened -- it was a long hot day of hard flying for everyone. I think we ended up with footage from 11 cameras. The editing and production is done in Australia, and I think the director had to get permission from the editors to send so much film footage.

We tried a couple of intercom arrangements. The mythbusters crew have some nice portable recorders, but there was an issue with mic impedence being different between aviation headsets and production audio equipement. At one point we were just going to put mics inside the headset ear cups. But the West Coast Ravens also have some intercom recorders, so I forget what configuration we actually ended up with. I think they had both the dedicated recorders and headsets for Kari, Tory and Grant, and also got the team intercom communication.

Louise's comment about Kari looking like she was sitting in a bathtub in the back of Slick's RV-8......I brought her TWO 2" booster cushions to sit on, that was the best I could do.

Planning: The Mythbusters folks have been to our water channel several times for previous episodes, so they were pretty familiar. I sent them a sketch of the model support requirements, and Kari built the models from regular plastic models. They were Bf-109's. The lower wing skins were omitted to keep the wing sections very thin, very important for ultra-low reynolds number flow in the water channel. (1-2 inches/second). So we sanded a nice contour onto the underside of the upper wing shells. We shot film for another episode that same day in one of our small wind tunnels, so it was pretty efficient for their crew, but it was a long day.

I met with the Mythbusters sound crew guy ahead of time so he could fit a camera bracket to my -8, and we did an engine-on sound check....thats when we found the impedence matching problem.

I met up with Bob (Nasty) Mills, Tim (Slick) Cone, and Scott (Spike) Randolf to talk about various ways to do the flight experiments. I think we ran the airport cafe out of napkins making various sketches. Then we went on a trial hop to see if we could actually measure benefits. Nasty described those test trials pretty well, I think we were all pleasantly surprised how well the tests went. Using constant throttle and measuring speed differences was in some ways a much more graphic illustration of the formation benefit, but in the end, after many dialogs with the Mythbusters folks, we settled on the fuel flow measurements.

Two of the test trials were especially interesting. For one, we joined up on Nasty as lead in a right echelon, while he held constant throttle setting. the whole formation sped up 2 kts from his initial speed (which showed that the lead got a useful benefit in an echelon formation). The reverse-V as Nasty described was very impressive. We stabilized the formation and then, the two leading planes of the V moved further apart laterally, and the middle airplane slowed down about 5 kts.

The lead Ravens (Slick, Nasty, Spike) then worked with the rest of the team to get all the pilots up to proficiency in finding and holding the "sweet spot". There was an extensive dialog laying out the test cards and then the actual briefings.

It was a really impressive eye-opener for me to work with the Ravens and see how they approach their job. Formation work is serious business and they approach it with utmost professionalism, but also know how to have a good time at it. Thanks guys for making the whole thing happen.




I'm curious about the rigging of the various cameras mounted inside and and out...

How was this done? What type of cameras? How long did it take to get ready for this filming? What went into the planning with the program producers? And what about the intercom set up? Was that seperate from the pilots so they weren't distracted from flying when the "actors" were freaken out at times?

Just curious about the behind the scenes stuff.

Steve
 
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Thanks for the great write-ups. They were as interesting as the show (if not more so). Funny part for me was watching them talk about fuel flows at 110kts and 4000ft. I can't wait to go up and see what I get for data :) my plane isn't as fast a some RV's but I Am guessing I'll hav some nice numbers at that speed :)
 
Does anyone have a copy of the show they can email me? I had to work late and forgot to record it. :(

Youtube is your friend

Part 1
The formation myth is about the 6:00 through 10:00 minute mark and starts again at about the 14:00 minute mark.

Part 2
Beginning through about 2:30 then around 9:00 to the end

Part 3
Beginning to about 2:45 then again around 6:15 to 9:00
 
Youtube is your friend

Part 1
The formation myth is about the 6:00 through 10:00 minute mark and starts again at about the 14:00 minute mark.

Part 2
Beginning through about 2:30 then around 9:00 to the end

Part 3
Beginning to about 2:45 then again around 6:15 to 9:00

Good work on posting the youtube links! I for sure thought one of the mythbusters were going to puke after that inline flying.
 
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