What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Heavy Iron - RV brotherhood day

KatanaPilot

Well Known Member
Since there was an RV-Lancair brotherhood thread, I didn't think this would be out of place.

Just got finished with my every 9 month dial-a-disaster experience in the B737 simulator. I've been on this plane so long I usually know the other pilot and the instructor.

However, today both the copilot and the instructor were new acquaintances and for the first time ever for me - we all had RV's. So the requisite emergency procedures and limitations oral was interspersed with discussions of cool places to fly your RV. Johnson Creek, ID is now on my planned trip list.

Former military pilots used to make up a majority of hires at my airline - and they frequently avoid (or have never done) GA flying. We have a lot more civilian only pilots now, so my experience today may become more common.
 
I wish we could all get so lucky...

I really grinds my gears when I fly with guys who think I'm a loony for not only flying GA, but OWNING an airplane, and a EXPERIMENTAL at that. And that's the case more often than not.

Sounds like you had a good experience in the box!
 
I?ve got a cousin whose an airline pilot and he razzes me about the experimental thing all the time. Every experimental crash ( probably less than 1 for every ten certified in my area) he has some BS comment about it.

Funny I remember him flying GA all the time when he was young and learning.

However we have a bunch of airline guys at my airport who love experimentals so it?s not all of them thankfully. Most of those are ex military too.
 
Ut oh. . . can of worms opened

Disclaimer - Tongue firmly in my cheek!

Ed. For Clarity; According to Google, “with tongue in cheek” is defined as “without really meaning what one is saying or writing”

:D

Ut oh Krea. . . this has the potential to go off the rails quickly. How many hot points did you inadvertently touch on here?

Civilian v. Military
Corporate v. Airline
Certified v. EAB

All I know is. . . every airplane is built by somebody and regional pilots (old school - 8 legs a day in a turboprop) are still the best qualified pilots the majors have ever hired. :p
 
Last edited:
All I know is. . . every airplane is built by somebody and regional pilots (old school - 8 legs a day in a turboprop) are still the best qualified pilots the majors have ever hired. :p

Nothing like opening up a whole other can of worms :eek:
I?ll put landing on a pitching deck at night in bad weather after flying over indian country and rearranging some real estate against your 8 legs a day!

Military-check
Civilian-check
Airline-check
Certified-check
EAB-check
Corporate-nope

5 out of 6 on your list, not too bad. :D

Bottom line, EAB is open to EVERYONE. No sense throwing rocks when you live in a glass house.
 
You never know where you’ll find EAB (or RV) guys....years ago, I was showing the Snowbirds around the old Mission Control Center, and when I was explaining flight director call signs, and that mine was “Iron”, one of them pointed at me and says “Hey, you’re Iron Flight! We know you - I’ve got an RV, he’s building one, and he’s got one (pointing at other Snowbirds)”

Turns out they were a bunch of good old bush and RV pilots at heart....

Paul
 
Astronaut "Hoot" Gibson:

1. Piper Colt
2. F-4 (Carrier Qualified)
3. F-14
4. Space Shuttle Orbiters
5. Casssut
6. Hawker Sea Fury
 
Nothing like opening up a whole other can of worms :eek:
I?ll put landing on a pitching deck at night in bad weather after flying over indian country and rearranging some real estate against your 8 legs a day!

Military-check
Civilian-check
Airline-check
Certified-check
EAB-check
Corporate-nope

5 out of 6 on your list, not too bad. :D

Bottom line, EAB is open to EVERYONE. No sense throwing rocks when you live in a glass house.

Not trying to throw rocks, just rearrange the ones already out there.

I have nothing but the upmost respect for you military flyers, especially those who flew over hostile country to ?rearrange real estate?. We all owe you a debt of gratitude.... However I think the ?old school? regional folks are due a tad more respect than they (we) get. Do 8-10 legs a day, some days never getting out of the Weather, half those legs to small airports doing some kind of Non-precision approach. In almost 30 years of FAR 121 flying, I?ve never done any air to air refueling, not released a single piece of ordnance, no combat maneuvering, very little formation (close parallel landings at SFO) never seen a pitching deck....although some days it did kind of look that way🤨....

Also 5 of 6 on the list.

All you military fliers, Thanks again for your Service !!
 
Not trying to throw rocks, just rearrange the ones already out there.

I have nothing but the upmost respect for you military flyers, especially those who flew over hostile country to ?rearrange real estate?. We all owe you a debt of gratitude.... However I think the ?old school? regional folks are due a tad more respect than they (we) get. Do 8-10 legs a day, some days never getting out of the Weather, half those legs to small airports doing some kind of Non-precision approach. In almost 30 years of FAR 121 flying, I?ve never done any air to air refueling, not released a single piece of ordnance, no combat maneuvering, very little formation (close parallel landings at SFO) never seen a pitching deck....although some days it did kind of look that way🤨....

Also 5 of 6 on the list.

All you military fliers, Thanks again for your Service !!

Also 5 of 6, both regional, military and mainline. I've flown with some superb airmen (both genders) in all of my flying. And you are correct - the regional folks don't get enough credit. I've jumpseated on numerous regional carriers and they do a fabulous job.

Did not think I was opening a can of worms. Sorry about that :rolleyes:
 
In almost 30 years of FAR 121 flying, I?ve never done any air to air refueling, not released a single piece of ordnance, no combat maneuvering, very little formation (close parallel landings at SFO) never seen a pitching deck....
Dang John, quit being such a slacker!

I'll throw full time CFI and flying cancelled checks into the mix....
Ditto here; CFI, canceled checks in a 310, turboprop regional puke, now keeping the left seat warm on a 737... it was a long slog to be able to do an RV. And worth it!
 
Doug Weiler, who has built both a beautiful RV-4 and RV-7 and is president for life of the Minnesota Wing of VAF, and I flew together often in the 757 at Northwest/Delta. We often discussed the virtues of RVs which ultimately convinced me I should build one. Thanks to Doug's support, advice and encouragement, I was eventually able to complete my RV-7A.
 
Regardless of the journey, we are all reading this because we share a love of our Van?s aircraft. We are all brothers at heart...
 
There is one thing I always find myself scratching my head at related to the "Heavy Iron - RV brotherhood" is obviously something none of us here have a problem with...

It's when we're in cruise flight, non sterile cockpit, the pictures are being shared on the phone/iPad and stories are being told. I'll listen to some guy (or gal) rant on and on about their lake house and $70k+ ski boat with what I assume to be auto throttles (connected to GPS for controlling speed for skiers). We get around to my RV sales pitch, and it always ends with "I wish I could afford that." :confused::confused::confused:

In my 8 years flying 121 so far, I'm just saddened mostly how many "pilots" don't really like airplanes like the VAF/EAA/(insert fun acronym here) crowd does. I'm really glad the OP had a good experience with co-workers!
 
Last edited:
Two thoughts:

One thing I love about all aspects of aviation is the people. We all have a different path that brought us to today. Everyone's story is unique, interesting and made us who we are.

For a 121 guy (specifically one who has little to no GA background), there are a lot of steps from thinking about getting into RVs to owning one and flying it proficiently. Getting into RVs is a huge commitment vs another hobby like buying a Porsche.

Building / buying. Prebuys, owner maintenance, insurance, training, etc...

I have had a great RV experience in the limited time since my wife and I got our 6. But it was the people around us who helped make the transition from poser to owner possible.

I wish there were more EAA chapters so that those thinking about joining VAF can get there easier.

Online community is great, but having someone show you how to change your first tire, wheel landings, or whatever is also incredibly valuable.
 
Last edited:
The implication that Jason (EXTAAFLY) presents is a complete and total insult to every other qualified airline pilot out there, civilian or military background.

26+ years flying for an airline, 7+ years flying for the Navy, combat included, 23,000+ hours logged and counting, I have the utmost respect for EVERY crewmember I fly with, civilian or military. There is NEVER a question of their qualifications, training takes care of that. There is always a question about everyone's background in a good way. We ALL have stories to tell and we ALL can learn from them. This nonsense that mine is bigger than yours is just that, nonsense!

We build and fly RV's because we ALL love them. That we can replicate a lot of what we did in the military with these machines, formation and aerobatic flying, is a bonus. If we can pass those skills to others, it makes all of us safer aviators.

Oh come on Karl. . . Seriously? Did you miss the very FIRST line of my post? (I went back, highlighted it in bold print and then provided a definition of what it means) My tongue was in my cheek. Everyday we go to work, we fly with talented people from all walks of life. I have been earning a living as a pilot for 27 years. My line about regional pilots was. . . Wait for it. . . A JOKE. I was a regional pilot from the days of 8 legs, 6+ IFR approaches to minimums, with 6+ de-icings. I have never thought of myself as the top of the class, that is why I can poke FUN at myself. I am a builder. I have owned a built RV6. And I have thousands of hours in just about everything that ever came out of Wichita and Vero Beach.

A good friend of mine, years ago when he, I and a couple of anti EAB guys were having a conversation about EAB v. Certified. He, an A&P, airline pilot, and genuious in all things mechanical made a point that. . . All airplanes are designed and built by someone. And that was meant that EAB can and in many ways is as good or BETTER than certified. My line about all airplanes are built by someone and was not meant to tear down EAB. . . It was meant to raise EAB and Vans to par with certified. Why would I be pouring $200k in to an RV-14 if I was living in a “glass house”

Again. . . Most of what I wrote in my post was meant as COMEDY. . . That is why there was a disclamer. That is why I refuse your premise that I completely besmirched the entire community of military pilots. I have the utmost respect for all that they do and have done for this country. The emoticons should have given that away. I am sorry you think this way. . . But that was certainly not the point of my post. That is why there was a. . . Disclaimer and smiley face emoticons.

Some times you guys really need to get a bit of a sense of humor. In 27 years of a successful career, with an almost flawless training record (didn’t everyone bust their initial CFI in the early 90’s? Oh, this mediocre civilian did. Only 1 bust in 30 years of check rides almost every 6-9 months) I have certainly been on the receiving end of military pilots ire for my position. . . Like a recent new hire at my company that spent 15 minutes. . . Incredulously pointing out that he couldn’t believe I got hired with “no jet time”. I typically laugh it off and compare it to Nose Wheel v. Tail Wheel or Chevrolet v. Ford. It is a debate that will always be a part of our world. . . Some people take it seriously. . . I do not.

For those of you so greatly offended. . . That didn’t bother to read the very first line of my post. Please go back and read the first line. . . If you’re still greatly offended by my comments. . . I am sorry. It was meant as a professional, courteous, razzing of my fellow professionals. In no way was it meant to disrespect EAB or Military.

Chill Bruh!

Krea. . . My apologies. We met at Synergy in November 2017. I didn’t mean to steer your thread off. My response was meant as a tongue in cheek comparison to all the walks of life we encounter daily. General, military and commercial aviation and the debates we passionately discuss/argue daily while cruising over the world.
 
Last edited:
Wait, no photos?

I'm disappointed:

I'm still waiting for photos of the heavy iron parked next to the RV's at some airport restaurant!:D
 
Would this count?
B25 - - RV-12 - - Lancair 235
B9HH3v.jpg
 
Oh come on Karl. . . Seriously? Did you miss the very FIRST line of my post? (I went back, highlighted it in bold print and then provided a definition of what it means) My tongue was in my cheek.


Again. . . Most of what I wrote in my post was meant as COMEDY. . . That is why there was a disclamer. That is why I refuse your premise that I completely besmirched the entire community of military pilots. I have the utmost respect for all that they do and have done for this country. The emoticons should have given that away. I am sorry you think this way. . . But that was certainly not the point of my post. That is why there was a. . . Disclaimer and smiley face emoticons.

Some times you guys really need to get a bit of a sense of humor. In 27 years of a successful career, with an almost flawless training record (didn?t everyone bust their initial CFI in the early 90?s? Oh, this mediocre civilian did. Only 1 bust in 30 years of check rides almost every 6-9 months) I have certainly been on the receiving end of military pilots ire for my position. . . Like a recent new hire at my company that spent 15 minutes. . . Incredulously pointing out that he couldn?t believe I got hired with ?no jet time?. I typically laugh it off and compare it to Nose Wheel v. Tail Wheel or Chevrolet v. Ford. It is a debate that will always be a part of our world. . . Some people take it seriously. . . I do not.

For those of you so greatly offended. . . That didn?t bother to read the very first line of my post. Please go back and read the first line. . . If you?re still greatly offended by my comments. . . I am sorry. It was meant as a professional, courteous, razzing of my fellow professionals. In no way was it meant to disrespect EAB or Military.

Chill Bruh!

Krea. . . My apologies. We met at Synergy in November 2017. I didn?t mean to steer your thread off. My response was meant as a tongue in cheek comparison to all the walks of life we encounter daily. General, military and commercial aviation and the debates we passionately discuss/argue daily while cruising over the world.

Hey Jason. I knew you were joking. Sorry this went a bit off the rails.

Everyone I fly with brings something to the table and I try to learn from them all.

Hope you are making good progress on your plane. I'm building an RV-10 at Synergy Air South. This week is doors. Mucho funno.
 
Here's a couple. First is when I'm waiting for freight at work when Mom and Dad just happen to be in the area. Second is my airplane with some Heavy Iron while volunteering at the Yankee Air Museum.

vTteVK_8GdgGYIHO_8IcQs5GOeMrQzm95V6iiGZYimPG00HxEehBQ1v5cbeApp_ky1NU65m-eZBYjWjSSlqW2X1onXEG8jV1dJOZt-peCj7cvtpjOkmTrhmAadB1nfVTjmMUVwB2wfNAPd0mtHOJl2EpdpiX9HFfs0DxzIWOzrgY1D2IoL7FILUZoPA949NyBzROrQjXZkRvGiVbrebQ5MUXFK5DzIwFZhwoflN5xk1PySUzVnhZRtOqO5_aYgXM--EPOEHqQwo2Dmh2RpHGcI7Hbhm6ApKUwDLaoS_nuv5O86277BVHaMhKf26FJUi2hxsF-eWDb9WQiQyp6IN47WVicabIUJFr23eyAt40_6q8Nceb1cGEwZLDJ2JzB6hJKpjvogQFQHoFXeleB04f2hDsnO3NG4jwodaGVeJpeLbRLB2BayM9I7TkDIve8paV5JHRzsIj-fzjFUILOr9FHrxFqL9qOKKsmgs3hUwoPwFMVlkZYxI7rCvqFfsQdxwnk0crmDaC_Isw_J3dRW3FJhD6nod3hWvylI9nYcFxGNhPJ-TpHUsq_cL1vFfv1ZBJjyHZ21z8Drh93EhmnGdvJFa5fA0VVL6T1tVCrJnJvcDZ5DY3rgvUc_UyGpI5-BDh6c0zsXG1N-P2Rj8ruzVk5lVEiGCfilw=w908-h681-no


YqRslokWO6UIxlspLvonJBsgcifYuBE8r6oUEynLO-cF0zZuDG3sAoSOjcIPvEA5nLA4zJyDtzKUrr7hMTUaqvPw-ZDp0g7Lm0vFtEGI1mo34CILBWdPBGW47ihQxaPwAP4ScahwKU5sqjPiATv8kJhUJzqT-pN3xzYnmgtlPKCBYi7v5AOOb3vdfpty26PA13rvMB2Kttc63IV7kkh-IfSy5OqRd1mmerHoNU6L59_EdJiAMI6oFJDeRTxpIjdIYO8nmCXSOl989WppfOErERZVvWmZyumCO0kOcDLIt2DSLy-3LYneTdz7YDoOl7tIkISFMb_-aGtTVPzr6jXcrz5YSyxYSWqKKW__-YxtNhxuMgbTt2Q47B8A7f2letWGlYOfxZLX86xVdST77WotSrh8n5Eb11b1Fttx7-1zVaGPzw_a59Uy0A0xU-_hp9wVrRcW-tS_WD3XF1yBDijngRI-sG4BUUk0bRINxvMfMINl-fPJQM5wxkMsL6cOUtWin5JCKPYmImJAKmpZF66R51HvLuEmw4q6LFDY_WlZlvffcoeoVRDt-Up7diCDEQCGYqRJqs8f9Uy6quHfAmx4Cr5sRZ0m_qMrurqW7nyAE2tGy6bVIN94uzqpHBAx1_udPYx59fb8rQgMQJke7tTnsH7C1adU1IE=w908-h681-no
 
Doug Weiler, who has built both a beautiful RV-4 and RV-7 and is president for life of the Minnesota Wing of VAF, and I flew together often in the 757 at Northwest/Delta. We often discussed the virtues of RVs which ultimately convinced me I should build one. Thanks to Doug's support, advice and encouragement, I was eventually able to complete my RV-7A.

Now my feelings are hurt. I raised your gear (B-727) before Doug ever did while showing you pics of my '88 RV-4.:mad::D
 
Just got finished with my every 9 month dial-a-disaster experience in the B737 simulator.

Lol! Been a professional pilot for 22 years now, never heard it called that!

BTW, I've got my annual dial-a-disaster starting Monday, good times!

BTW, if anyone thinks there is a pilot shortage on the flying side, the 142 schoolhouses are even worse. There is currently 1, 1 check airman qualified for our aircraft type in this entire country that can do our checkride next week! Maybe in the world to my knowledge.
 
Last edited:
Lol! Been a professional pilot for 22 years now, never heard it called that!

BTW, I've got my annual dial-a-disaster starting Monday, good times!

BTW, if anyone thinks there is a pilot shortage on the flying side, the 142 schoolhouses are even worse. There is currently 1, 1 check airman qualified for our aircraft type in this entire country that can do our checkride next week! Maybe in the world to my knowledge.

What kind of aircraft? Electra? Convair?
 
Back
Top