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Aleutian Campaign. Phase One - planning.

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Vlad

Well Known Member
More then two years I planned the expedition. Job change, life happened you know how it goes. The year of 2014 looks like the year to go. I would like to tap the collective mind to share knowledge, tips and tricks about flying in the Aleutians. I am going to carry all survival equipment noted here and I will have some RV spare parts and tools in case I go broken somewhere in the islands. I will have some extra fuel onboard and O2. I can turn around any time if I don't like something.

I communicated with a NOAA aviator and several boat captains who also hold pilot licenses of different kinds. Some of them flew in/over Unalaska and Adak islands but commercially and under IRF. Everyone suggested that the best time to go VFR down the Aleutian chain is late July/early August.

I watched some military videos and intensively searched the web about ASEL flying in that corner of the world but didn't find much. Airports are few and far in between, lower octane fuel is available but not easily accessible and accommodations are a big unknown. If somebody has any information on flying GA planes in the Aleutians please share. If you know somebody who was there and knows where to stay,what to see, what to beware please ask him/her. I want to descend over certain harbors and basins and look over some volcanos. Other then that, just a regular island hop.


There is no other route then this.





Airport/Facility directory supplement for AK (thanks Andrew) has very minimal info and virtually nothing on accommodations. If there is a decent hotel at Dutch Harbor, there is nothing listed at Adak. A googled lodge doesn't respond to emails. I can camp but I prefer not to on this run :)


Well, here it is. The plan. Say something. If I don't go in 2014 I may never go...
 
Awesome

Now that would be a trip! Will be watching to see what you find out and do.

Some aviators wont fly out to a strange airport and stretch their wings. I love seeing Rvers flying all over the place and enjoying their birds.

WOW....good luck with the plan and execution.
 
Are you going to add extra fuel, just in case?

I like the seatback tanks as well as the ones that go down the leading edges. However, the seatback tanks would be much easier to install.
 
N941WR said:
Are you going to add extra fuel, just in case?

I like the seatback tanks as well as the ones that go down the leading edges. However, the seatback tanks would be much easier to install.
Click to expand...

I thought about aux tanks Bill. I may need extra fuel only on one leg if strong headwind encountered. I could carry couple jerry cans with me IF I decide to go that leg.
 
Sounds like an incredible adventure. The link you provided has a good list but I'd caution against the stove he suggests and go this route:http://www.cascadedesigns.com/msr/stoves/simple-cooking/whisperlite-international-2012/product. Why? God forbid you're stranded somewhere for days and the isopropylene containers run low, or fail. This stove will run on anything, including gasoline (it says don't use leaded fuel but in a pinch, if your life depends on it...). I've had one for years and use Jet-A from the FBO I worked at in college without problem.

One other suggestion, would be two guns. A small .22 like this http://www.ruger.com/products/1022Takedown/models.html works well because you could use it to get food, or for protection against smaller predators and doesn't take up much space. I'd also carry a revolver of some sort in a holster on you in case you have to ditch or something bigger like a bear causes a problem. At a minimum a .357mag.
 
pilotpip said:
...

One other suggestion, would be two guns. A small .22 like this http://www.ruger.com/products/1022Takedown/models.html works well because you could use it to get food, or for protection against smaller predators and doesn't take up much space. I'd also carry a revolver of some sort in a holster on you in case you have to ditch or something bigger like a bear causes a problem. At a minimum a .357mag.
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One problem with this, you have go through Canada to get there and they don't allow handguns of any kind in their country.

As for the 10/22, great gun but Canada also bans a number of semiauto rifles. Check to see if the 10/22 is allowed.

Years ago I spoke to guy who lived up there and this subject came up. He suggested an 830 in 12 gauge, loaded alternately double 00, slug, double 00, slug, etc. He also carried some birdshot with him, just incase he needed a rabbit or other small game.

This is a good link: http://canada.usembassy.gov/traveling_to_canada/bringing-weapons-into-canada.html.
 
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Good point. Perhaps shipping them ahead and picking up in AK so it's not an issue? I think having a handgun on your person would be a good thing in case of a ditching or fire situation where you might lose everything else in the aircraft.
 
I know ADAK is also a Naval Air Station. I was there back in the late 80's, so I'm sure it has changed a lot.
 
I don't think the Navy has Adak any longer. Seems they turned it over to local government or native corporation around 2000. If so, should make landing there easier.
 
Alaska trip

Vlad; if you can purchase firearms as a citizen of the U.S.A. where you live, a licensed federal firearm licensed (FFL) holder can ship your weapons to an FFL in Anchorage where you would pick them up before heading out of town. That way you can have a pistol, and, or shotgun for your needs along the way. Actually, you can probably fly with them to Washington State, and ship them from an FFL there. Shipping is usually $35.00 per weapon, and FFL charges vary from FFL to FFL holder, $25.00-35.00 approx.
I am in Anchorage now, and have flown the Aleutians, but not recently. There should be plenty of fuel along the way. King Cove is near Adak, and there is a runway there. Plenty of sand to land on at low tide. Expect high winds, and lots of fog, but there are chamber of commerce days out there also. Mostly camping along the way would be the best plan. Reeve Aleutian Airways, now out of business had a hotel/motel at Adak. There used to be canneries that you could find a place to stay. I'm not sure how many are still in operation. I will ask around with active pilots here about possibilities for you. Gerry
 
You can mail guns through the US Post Office to use for a hunt or shooting at a location you are traveling to. There are rules to follow about packing and such, but it is legal.
 
I flew out of Adak a long time ago for two weeks in the summer. Never saw the sun once. Clouds went from 200 feet to 30,000 feet. I know it would be a great adventure but if you go down in the water its not survivable even in the summer because there is no one who can get to you in the 30 minutes or so you might have at those temps. I would fly as high as possible to give yourself a chance to glide to a island if anything happened. Icing is also always a issue. If you go leave yourself a lot of time for waiting for the right weather windows you could easily be stuck somewhere for a long time.

George
 
been as far as Dutch Harbor...

Not in an RV, but I have been as far as Dutch Harbor. It will be a neat trip if weather cooperates.

I stayed at the Grand Aleutian... pretty much everyone does ;)
It is a good hotel with prices that follow the fishing crowd.

For the most part, throughout Alaska; the smaller the town (village), the more likely it is that someone you just met will be happy to put you up for the night at their house no problem.
 
Russia isn't totally out of the picture.

A victor airway route does exist between Russia and the U.S. Check out the Alaska Airman's Association's page on the subject. http://alaskaairmen.org/index.php?page_id=203 I used to live in Alaska and always dreamed about some day being able to fly to Russia. It appears that there are a lot of differences and hurdles to clear. Not sure, but I believe Russia charges "by the mile" for air traffic services, and therefore making the costs too prohibitive. I would love to help make flying to and through Russia possible. That would really open up General aviation to Europe and Asia. Obviously, this would require a lot of work from both sides and especially someone who knows the Russian system and how to get things moving forward. Now, where are we going to find somebody that knows Russia and RV's inside and out :rolleyes:
 
The Alaska State Troopers and the wildlife officers (both from the same service) all rely on shotguns for safety from bears as they encountered a lot of them. It would also double as a light game firearm if you need to eat. Personally I prefer a S&W 500 Magnum revolver for bears. But not worth the hassle going thru Canada.
There use to be numerous birding trips run out on the islands. Some of those are no more as access to some have been suspended. Make sure the islands you want to visit will still allow access and have fuel before going. Vlad, sounds like a trip of a lifetime!!!


N941WR said:
One problem with this, you have go through Canada to get there and they don't allow handguns of any kind in their country.

As for the 10/22, great gun but Canada also bans a number of semiauto rifles. Check to see if the 10/22 is allowed.

Years ago I spoke to guy who lived up there and this subject came up. He suggested an 830 in 12 gauge, loaded alternately double 00, slug, double 00, slug, etc. He also carried some birdshot with him, just incase he needed a rabbit or other small game.

This is a good link: http://canada.usembassy.gov/traveling_to_canada/bringing-weapons-into-canada.html.
Click to expand...
 
vlad, good luck with your trip!

some germans/swiss did an around the globe trip recently, also going through the aleutians:

https://www.pilotundflugzeug.de/artikel/2013-11-06/Leserreise_2013

https://www.pilotundflugzeug.de/artikel/2013-08-29/Leserreise_2013_Around_the_World

https://www.pilotundflugzeug.de/download/lr2013/b700/index.html

and preparations with dropping fuel at attu:
https://www.pilotundflugzeug.de/forum/2013,07,19,21,2854374

try google translate and feel free to ask if you need help to understand some german ;-)

bernie
 
Of course, Canadians fly through the backwoods all the time without firearms. Try it sometime... You'll have more baggage capacity, too! :)
 
Rob - backwoods and bear country are two different things. The Aleutians are known for sporting a good density of big bears so prudence is recommended.

For those coming into Canada from the south, you might want to brush up on Canadian firearms regulations a bit - they're not quite as draconian as statements earlier in this discussion would lead some folks to believe. As a competitive pistol shooter, I can assure you that handguns are indeed allowed in Canada. I like nothing better than flying to a match and toting a box of pistols across the tarmac. Airport security? We don't need no stinkin' airport security! :)

With respect to what to carry on such a trip, you'll find a universal recommendation is a folding-stock Remington 870 pump shotgun with a sling. ALWAYS carry it in bear country. Having witnessed the dispatch of a polar bear with one of these at frighteningly-close range, I would suggest that buckshot tends to slow big bears down whereas a slug tends to stop them. Get good at "point and shoot", firing without aiming, and firing with the shotgun NOT mounted to your shoulder. If you have to resort to shooting, don't stop until the animal is dead. While Grizzlies and Polar Bears are different beasts, they will both astound you at how quickly and quietly they can move.
 
Back in the 80's I flew a marine mammal survey of the Bering Sea in a Twin Otter for 6 months. We got out as far as Adak. I second the advice that the water out there is mighty cold even in the summer. There's a large abandoned WWII airbase on umnak island that was interesting, some volcanos and we'd do low level surveys of some of the islands and see whale bones on the rocky beaches. Amazing scenery when the weather's nice. You can get some pretty crappy weather out there even in the summer and it can last for days so you need to be flexible and patient. The winds can really get high when a front is coming through. We got stuck on Adak for a week, had to tie the plane down on the ramp and drove out a couple of times to see if it had blown away. Dutch Harbor's runway is carved out next to a rock cliff and if the wind is up it can be tricky. I did SE Alaska with my 170 a couple of years ago and really enjoyed it. Because of clouds and rain showers I ended up beyond gliding distance to shore a couple of times and the level of anxiety goes up a bit. Good luck with it if you go.
 
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It looks like we covered firearms and survival gear. Bernie thanks for the link. I spoke recently with two gentlemen from your airport (they know you) They bought a twin here in US and it was hangared in our row.




They flew to Adak PADK last year (?) and went on the missed approach there couple times. I didn't have much time to ask them where they stayed. Would appreciate a contact.

No interest for flying to Mother Russia. I covered that airspace decades ago when I was young and stupid. Nostalgia hasn't come yet :D
 
vlad, shoot me an email or PM with your contact details, i will be forwarding them with the request specifically for info on the aleutians...

yeah, sigi one day told me about you meeting him when he did the cheyenne type rating at your field and that you were saying hello ;-)... the world is a small place sometimes.

regards,
bernie
 
I'm not even going and I'm scared.

Sounds exciting but are you out of your freaking mind.:eek: this is a joke, right?
 
NYTOM said:
Sounds exciting but are you out of your freaking mind.:eek: this is a joke, right?
Click to expand...

:D:D Sometimes I have the same thoughts Tom...



Jim Wright said:
You probably will not find any av gas west of Cold Bay.
Click to expand...


Last time I've heard there is avgas at Dutch Harbor. Crazy expensive though. Adak fuel could be arranged via Aleut Enterprise LLC.

lowandslo said:
......

There's a large abandoned WWII airbase on umnak island that was interesting, some volcanos and we'd do low level surveys of some of the islands and see whale bones on the rocky beaches.

......


Because of clouds and rain showers I ended up beyond gliding distance to shore a couple of times and the level of anxiety goes up a bit. Good luck with it if you go.
Click to expand...


Thanks Charlie. There was a contract King Air landed at the said base last year I saw a picture. There is a ranch not far from there and people own helicopters.
 
Hi Vlad. In reading some of the notes in this thread, I return to my recommendation of that Aramid under clothing. It works wet or dry.

I think your two biggest planning challenges now are fuel (you and the airplane) and survival gear (again, you and the airplane). You want to start seeing how many repares you can do with just your portable tool kit and supplies.

You're welcome to land here and let me mess up your plane and see if your can fix it :)
 
lowandslo said:
Back in the 80's I flew a marine mammal survey of the Bering Sea in a Twin Otter for 6 months. We got out as far as Adak. I second the advice that the water out there is mighty cold even in the summer. There's a large abandoned WWII airbase on umnak island that was interesting, some volcanos and we'd do low level surveys of some of the islands and see whale bones on the rocky beaches. Amazing scenery when the weather's nice. You can get some pretty crappy weather out there even in the summer and it can last for days so you need to flexible and patient. The winds can really get high when a front is coming through. We got stuck on Adak for a week, had to tie the plane down on the ramp and drove out a couple of times to see if it had blown away. Dutch Harbor's runway is carved out next to a rock cliff and if the wind is up it can be tricky. I did SE Alaska with my 170 a couple of years ago and really enjoyed it. Because of clouds and rain showers I ended up beyond gliding distance to shore a couple of times and the level of anxiety goes up a bit. Good luck with it if you go.
Click to expand...




Did a little homework on possible alternatives. Umnak Island is 1/3 between Dutch Harbor and Atka. There are two fields on the island - Nikolski PAKO and the abandoned WWII base. I dug deeper and plucked some interesting facts about it from here http://www.airfields-freeman.com it was initially Fort Glenn Army Airfield. In 1943 it had 4 paved runways.






The Navy's facility, Otter Point Naval Air Facility, was adjacent to the Army Airfield







A runway was graded in 2005 to accept larger aircrafts. Here is an aerial look from 2008.






It's not in Alaska supplement but it's in occasional use. Two runways are usable. There is a cattle ranch and herding is done with helicopters R-22. A contract King Air (2008)






A Cessna 441. Year 2011.






Remains of P-61 Black Widow. Also year of 2011.







Today's look in Google Earth.



 
Vlad,

I'm a big fan of your trips and enjoy the reports. I don't like to throw cold water on anyone's ideas, but I have to recommend you look for another adventure. I've been to Adak in the summer (diverted there in an F-15). The weather in the aleutians is terrible even in the summer. Flying VFR up there would be very stressful. You could get stuck there for months. If you have a problem you will most likely end up in the water and you will die if that happens.

Please take a trip overland up north or down to warm water somewhere.

-Andy
 
Vlad ever since you posted about this trip I've been intrigued. Never realized there were so many volcanos. Seems like a lot of the articles I've read speak of possible weeks of non-stop fog in the summer and of the very cold water. Are pilots of small planes required to wear survival suits at all times similar to requirements to transport aircraft across the Atlantic? Saw somewhere that even fighter pilots have to wear them when crossing. Just thinking out loud. I might be all wet here but the cold sea water seems to be a bigger danger than the bears if things went south over the water. Those old air bases sure would be fun to explore though.
 
simpkinsona said:
Vlad,

I'm a big fan of your trips and enjoy the reports. I don't like to throw cold water on anyone's ideas, but I have to recommend you look for another adventure. I've been to Adak in the summer (diverted there in an F-15). The weather in the aleutians is terrible even in the summer. Flying VFR up there would be very stressful. You could get stuck there for months. If you have a problem you will most likely end up in the water and you will die if that happens.

Please take a trip overland up north or down to warm water somewhere.

-Andy
Click to expand...


Andy thanks I appreciate the safety concerns. I do. The majority of planned island hop will include open water passes up to 10 - 12 NM. From a good altitude of 15 - 16 thousand I won't even have my feet wet. The only stretch of 37 NM over open water is Amukta Pass. I need to put a boat in the middle to ease the excitement. If I get stuck because of weather I would wait out I've told my employer I go out of Continental US for a month or more.

In case of standing bad weather front down the chain I have Plan B from Cold Bay (I need at least a T&G at False Pass PAKF :) ) and Plan C from Kodiak exactly as you said - overland up north. How long you've stayed in Adak when diverted? Any cool things to do while grounded?
 
NYTOM said:
Vlad ever since you posted about this trip I've been intrigued. Never realized there were so many volcanos. Seems like a lot of the articles I've read speak of possible weeks of non-stop fog in the summer and of the very cold water. Are pilots of small planes required to wear survival suits at all times similar to requirements to transport aircraft across the Atlantic? Saw somewhere that even fighter pilots have to wear them when crossing. Just thinking out loud. I might be all wet here but the cold sea water seems to be a bigger danger than the bears if things went south over the water. Those old air bases sure would be fun to explore though.
Click to expand...



Tom this is another read for you. A very interesting account from a Piper Cub guy. Scroll his page down for the Aleutian adventure.

Some of his pictures.












I don't think weather is much different from the Jersey Shore.






or Maine.



 
Thanks Vlad, great story and photos. From you post I see overflying the water won't be a issue and the bears will. :eek: I'm looking at your mission in a whole new light.:) I think we're going to need bigger tires. :D
 
Inspiration for my fantasy flights

Vlad said:
Tires are OK we just need a packed sand :D


Click to expand...
Maybe taking your pants off :eek: might be in order. For what it's worth, I'm excited for you. If anybody can do it, you can. Please keep us posted on your planning.
 
akflyer

I understand your enthusiam and it would be a great venture.
However do not expect to find any avgas west of Cold Bay. Maybe auto gas at Dutch Harbor.
I have flown out there in L-1649's L-382's and B-727's. years ago and I can tell you that there is little if anything in the way of accomodations. Without survival gear life expectancy in the water is measured in minutes.
Preferred aircraft would be a Grumman Goose or a Twin Otter on amphibious floats and lots of $$$$$$.
Alaska has many beautiful areas to fly to. If you want adventure, consider flying your RV to Fairbanks then to Circle Hot Springs, across the Brooks Range to Katovik and across the Arctic coast to Point Barrow, then Kotzebue. Nome, Unalakleet, Mc Grath, Farewell Lake and on to Anchorage. That's just one flight, there are many more.
Leave the Aleutians to the commercial guys. Jump on Google Earth and fly around Alaska and then pick a safer adventure.
 
Gas in Adak

Just found this on Earthrounders website.
http://www.earthrounders.com/

January 23, 2014 : From Adam Broome, Chapel Hill, NC: "Four barrels 100LL in Adak, Alaska for sale. Contact Adam Broome at ahbroome(at)gmail.com."

Thought you might be interested.

Gary
 
Dutch Harbor

Vlad,
I've actually been looking at a trip like this as well, at least as far as Dutch. I just need to finish building my plane first. I work month on/ month off in Dutch Harbor, so I'd be happy to help with anything I can.
 
Jim Wright said:
I understand your enthusiam and it would be a great venture.
However do not expect to find any avgas west of Cold Bay. Maybe auto gas at Dutch Harbor.
I have flown out there in L-1649's L-382's and B-727's. years ago and I can tell you that there is little if anything in the way of accomodations. Without survival gear life expectancy in the water is measured in minutes.
Preferred aircraft would be a Grumman Goose or a Twin Otter on amphibious floats and lots of $$$$$$.
Alaska has many beautiful areas to fly to. If you want adventure, consider flying your RV to Fairbanks then to Circle Hot Springs, across the Brooks Range to Katovik and across the Arctic coast to Point Barrow, then Kotzebue. Nome, Unalakleet, Mc Grath, Farewell Lake and on to Anchorage. That's just one flight, there are many more.
Leave the Aleutians to the commercial guys. Jump on Google Earth and fly around Alaska and then pick a safer adventure.
Click to expand...


Jim thanks for warning. I understand the risks and if something won't look right I abandon. Ironically, I had an Alaskan resident who advised me against going via Kotz,Nome, Barrow to Barter Island. He doesn't even think to cross Brooks range in a single engine aircraft.




gmkonrad said:
Just found this on Earthrounders website.
http://www.earthrounders.com/

January 23, 2014 : From Adam Broome, Chapel Hill, NC: "Four barrels 100LL in Adak, Alaska for sale. Contact Adam Broome at ahbroome(at)gmail.com."

Thought you might be interested.

Gary
Click to expand...


Gary thank you very much. I contacted Adam and he responded. His fuel on Adak is available and he can sell two drums. But as Jim Wright previously mentioned it's a lot of $$$$ and a bit more. No decision on purchase has been made yet.

Elwell81 said:
Vlad,
I've actually been looking at a trip like this as well, at least as far as Dutch. I just need to finish building my plane first. I work month on/ month off in Dutch Harbor, so I'd be happy to help with anything I can.
Click to expand...


Andy, I will have a lot of questions for you in June. If your schedule matchs my trip we may even do some local flights out of DH.
 
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Vlad, not sure which way you are going, but if you come through Alberta, I have a hanger for your plane and place for you to sleep if the timing works. Don't be shy to PM me if need be. Cen4 is the airport. I clear at CYQL most of the time.
 
TroyBranch said:
Vlad, not sure which way you are going, but if you come through Alberta, I have a hanger for your plane and place for you to sleep if the timing works. Don't be shy to PM me if need be. Cen4 is the airport. I clear at CYQL most of the time.
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Thanks Troy. I am planning to visit Greg at Atlin on the way back you are not too far. Let's see how it goes. Do you plan Oshkosh this year?
 
Oshkosh is likely. If the weather is reasonable, we will be going. The family actually enjoys it now that we are much more familiar. That is a plus:D

Are you?
 
TroyBranch said:
Oshkosh is likely. If the weather is reasonable, we will be going. The family actually enjoys it now that we are much more familiar. That is a plus:D

Are you?
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I am timing one day of KOSH on the way back. But all is fluid if WX down the chain is bad I may return home well before Oshkosh. If all is as planned I may join you going southeast :)
 
Don't do it. I have thousands of hours of Alaska flying time in a Compair 7 Turbine, and the first RV4 in Alaska in 1986. My Compair 7 Turbine was built by me using all my knowledge flying in Alaska. It is a very capable aircraft with a 1400 NM range. I fly high, I scud run low. It'll do 4000'/min ROC. There isn't a lot of places I can't get to when I must. The Aleutians must be some of the most dangerous flying weather there is. I have a lot of experience in The Aleutians as far out as Amchitka. I'll be going to Atka this summer, and I am dreading it. It is cold, desolate, and very windy. There is very little to see. Go to Cold Bay. Spend a few days at the excellent lodge there. Get all the fuel you want at Frosty's Fuel. Then go back. You seen it all. It all looks the same. I often land at Cold Bay with 40 Kts wind speed on the ground. Thats on a clear pretty day. Fuel is few and far between past Cold Bay. Weather can go from CAVU to 0 and 0 in 15 minutes when its windy. Its always windy except for maybe half a dozen days a year. The rest of Alaska is a piece of cake compared to the Aleutians. And lots of lower 48 pilots die in mainland Alaska every summer. Lots of Alaska pilots die in mainland Alaska every summer. Just my Humble opinion.

Forgot to add. I have aerial photos of a tornado just west of Cold Bay.
OK, maybe fly to Dutch Harbor because everybody knows where that is. Its only about an hour one way in an RV from CDB. Top off in CDB. If you can't top off at CDB you can't make it to Dutch and return to CDB. The next fuel is a long way back towards Anchorage. Even if CDB or Dutch are good, its very rare to get clear WX at both the same day. You MUST get fuel at CDB to fly to Dutch Harbor. And remember the ADIZ which starts just west of CDB requires a DVFR flight plan if you're flying faster than 180 Kts TAS. If there is any kind of Fisheries meeting or something like that good luck finding a room in Dutch. You may be sleeping in your RV for a week before you get out of there. I highly recommend a moving map with terrain database. If you have to turn around and go back to CDB at least you can avoid hitting a volcano, and CDB is pretty flat with a wide open approach. If one side of the chain is ****, the other side can be good depending on whether the Gale force winds are from the North or from the South. Wear an immersion suit while flying and have a raft. The water will kill you very fast there. Carry a PLB. Its the only chance you'll be found after your raft blows 50 miles out to sea before Search and Rescue can come for you. Read the book "The Thousand Mile War". A lot more pilots died from the conditions than the war action. There are lots of WW2 aircraft ruins all over the place, and they weren't shot down. Then again….Maybe you'll get lucky and get a pretty day. They happen maybe 2-3 days a year.
 
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NYTOM said:
This parade is getting rained on. :eek:
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No, not at all. I am very cautious by nature and I appreciate your post Ken. A professional view on amateur flying. I have some specific questions would you mind a PM or email?
 
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