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Advice for nugget buying a RV-6A

tuldrich

I'm New Here
Hello All. New guy here...My name is Tom. I don't have or own kit, but am here to inquire about purchasing a completed RV-6A with about 600 hours of flight time. If this is wrong place to post, I'm sorry, and I'd be glad to post this in the proper forum.

Generally, I was looking for some general information on the ownership of RV6, and if possible any information from anyone who may have purchased a completed kit.

I think I found a pretty nice RV6A for sale, thru a broker site, and over the past week or so, I have been trying to gather information relating to cost of ownership, such as: Insurance, nominal annual maintenance costs, hangering, etc.

At first, I was pretty enthused about the RV6 find, and was ready to jump right in, to make the purchase, but after talking to a couple of PPL flight schools in my area, I'm not so sure anymore. I told the flight schools that I would need instruction in my 'personal' airplane, and the all the people I spoke at these schools said, that my plane would have to pass their 'inspection standards', etc. Plus several people also told me to be cautious about buying an experimental build plane, and how kit planes are not up to par, so to speak. So, this sort of feedback has sort of put a damper on my initial enthusiasm. So, I'm sort of looking for some clarification and feedback from people who actually own a Van of some model.

The broker of the RV6A, which I'm VERY interested in purchasing, said that the plane is currently owned by the original builder of the kit. The plane has a current Annual, and that it is flight worthy. I've talked with the broker about the general process of purchasing the plane: getting the pre-purchase inspection done, transferring title, ferrying the plane to my hometown, etc. So along these lines, much of the stuff the broker is telling me, should I trust, etc, etc ??

Some more direct questions, for which I am seeking answers are more geared towards the 'mechanics' of flying an RV6A ... Like, how easy (or hard) is it to learn to fly the RV6A? Are the instruments that come with the purchase of the plane 'good', for my purpose, which his purely recreational VFR flying?

I'll stop here, because this is already getting long winded, but I would appreciate hearing from anyone in VAF who has anything to add. Please feel free to PM me, as well. Plus I can provide a link to the a/c for sale, and provide more details as well.

Thanks in advance.
Tom
 
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Tom, welcome to VAF! You will find this to be a valuable resource.

To start the process:

What is your flying experience? Am I correct to assume you have not yet started private lessons?
 
Hello Sam. Thanks for the response. You are correct I have not started lessons. I do have about 30 hours time in cessna 150, but those are from about 20 years ago...So may as well be nothing.
 
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I love my rv-6

Owned a c172 for 25 years and the first time I flew my 6 it was adios Cessna. 60 mph faster on the same fuel. Sure I can't carry 4 people but I rarely did in the 172 anyway.

Flight schools are in business to make money. If you use your own plane you are not using theirs so naturally they are going to discourage teaching in your plane.

As for the quality of kit planes I believe that the further pilots are removed from the experimental world the more they have the attitude that kit plane quality is inferior. Once they become familiarized with our awesome machines that attitude becomes less prevalent. And yet every plane is different; you are wise to get a pre-buy inspection. But you would do that with any plane.

As far as flying qualities my 6 is a blast to fly, light on the controls climbs at over 1000 fpm and turns on a thought. Very cross country capable and I have made 1000 nm trips in 8 hrs including a fuel stop and it is easy. I have not done aerobatics but will do so soon as the plane is +6g and -6g capable.

As far as finding an instructor willing to teach in a RV I have no info on that but this forum will help you out. Good luck.
 
Hello Sam. Thanks for the response. You are correct I have not started lessons. I do have about 30 hours time in cessna 150, but those are from about 20 years ago...So may as well be nothing.

the nice thing about experimentals you buy is that you can work on them--anything and everything. This is a great advantage, IMO. You only have to engage an A&P (or the owner with a Repairman's Certificate) to get the annual Condition Inspection done. It's great learning, even if you didn't build the airplane.
 
Buying RV

Build quality can be all over the map. First step is a real pre buy done by 3rd party with no interest in this sale & who is very knowledgable on RVs. Not hard to fly, but they are hot rods compared to the average trainers most of us learned in.

Don Broussard

RV 9 Rebuild in Progress
 
Hello Sam. Thanks for the response. You are correct I have not started lessons. I do have about 30 hours time in cessna 150, but those are from about 20 years ago...So may as well be nothing.

In spite of the cheerleading, I suggest you postpone the purchase of an RV until you have the PPL. This will eliminate the problem of finding an instructor and give you time to determine the type of flying you will be interested in pursuing. It's best not to subject your plane to a student's abuse. :)

There are always nice RVs for sale, no need to push a quick decision. Best wishes for an enjoyable pursuit of your PPL!
 
At first, I was pretty enthused about the RV6 find, and was ready to jump right in, to make the purchase, but after talking to a couple of PPL flight schools in my area, I'm not so sure anymore. I told the flight schools that I would need instruction in my 'personal' airplane, and the all the people I spoke at these schools said, that my plane would have to pass their 'inspection standards', etc. Plus several people also told me to be cautious about buying an experimental build plane, and how kit planes are not up to par, so to speak. So, this sort of feedback has sort of put a damper on my initial enthusiasm. So, I'm sort of looking for some clarification and feedback from people who actually own a Van of some model.

Thanks in advance.
Tom

The flight school makes a percentage from renting aircraft. You'd be cutting out that percentage by bringing your own aircraft to the party. That is probably part of the flight school's motivation to dissuade you from learning to fly in your own RV-6.

As to quality or airworthiness, that is unique to each aircraft - certified, experimental, etc. There are plenty of examples of both experimental and factory built/professionally maintained aircraft suffering failures or expensive repairs because of poor design, build quality, maintenance, etc. Have someone experienced with RV's take a look at the airplane you're interested in and render judgement. Also, have your local A&P or IA take a look. Some of the more common problems are with the fuel system and/or engine installation.

As far as learning to fly on an RV-6 you purchased, personally, I'd rent while you earn your license, then buy the appropriate aircraft. You might really want to fly now, but after 10 hours, you might be even more motivated, or you might lose your interest entirely. That's a bad place to be with a newly purchased airplane, so I suggest waiting to buy until you're finished with your license. Also, when you rent, all of those bad student landings are in someone else's airplane, not yours, so you'll avoid some wear and tear...
 
Tom,

As a new owner of an RV6A I thought I would chime in. I am currently a
Sport Pilot cert holder who is about to go for my PPL check ride. I purchased
my 6A knowing that it would sit in the hangar for a month or so until I finished
my PPL. I agree with renting while training. Believe me you will be happy you
did. As for the airworthiness of the aircraft, as others have said get a 3rd party
inspection performed. I had one done and then hired someone to ferry my plane
from Texas to South Carolina for me. I got my insurance from Arthur J. Gallagher
Risk Management Services, Inc. formerly Nation Air Insurance Co.
My insurance for $65K hull moving/non-moving, $1M/$200K runs $1248/yr. I am
a 200+hr pilot and have a requirement of 10hrs transition training required.

If you are dead set on the RV6A and you are 110% sure you will complete
your PPL training in short order then go for it. I love going to the hangar and
sitting my my 6A as motivation to finish my PPL. I have also become very
familiar with all the instruments and workings of my airplane.

Best of luck on your decision.
 
Just to be accurate, the RV-6/6A and the other aerobatic capable RVs are designed for +6g and -3g at their respective aerobatics gross weights (which is 1375 pounds for the RV-6/6A).

IMG_2480.jpg


IMG_2479.jpg


This is what my builder's manual says.
 
Tom

Find a local EAA chapter and join. Get emersed in experimental aircraft. You should get a wealth of knowledge and help in purchasing the right airplane. Also the chapter may have a CFI or 2 willing to train you in an experimental.

John Morgan

1000+ hours in RV6A
 
Those that are not involved in experimental think it is the worst thing ever, and dangerous.

The fact is either certified or experimental, examples exist of excellent machines and others that are downright scary. Has nothing to do with the type. Done properly experimental offer so much more over certified in terms of capability and cost to operate.

But I also agree, it might just be best to get your PPL with something available readily you can rent.
 
I also agree that you should learn in a certified aircraft.

That way you WILL experience the wonderful feel of flying an RV.
 
I never really looked at the 172 I was flying till I started building my own 7a, I removed panels here and there and then started questioning the build quality of this certified aircraft, looking at all the rivets and wow! look at the 172 rudder, and then look at a Vans, Our EXPERIMENTAL aircraft are far superior in (my) opinion.
 
In spite of the cheerleading, I suggest you postpone the purchase of an RV until you have the PPL. This will eliminate the problem of finding an instructor and give you time to determine the type of flying you will be interested in pursuing. It's best not to subject your plane to a student's abuse. :)

There are always nice RVs for sale, no need to push a quick decision. Best wishes for an enjoyable pursuit of your PPL!

Plus 1 on this advise.

This is the route I took. I completed my PPL in 2014 in a C172. After that I began working towards my tail wheel endorsement flying Citabrias while shopping for an RV-8. I looked at quite a few. The good ones were gone quick. The others, not so much. About 3 months before picking up my RV-8, I did transition training with Mike Seagar up in Oregon. That 10 hours of training gave me the competence and confidence I needed to know this was indeed the right decision for me. Best training I've ever had. Most fun too!

I too wanted to buy a plane before completing my PPL. I'm glad I took the good advise of folks on this site and waited. It was the right decision for me.

Stay safe.
 
Tom,
I would second the recommendation of renting while training. The RV series are well performing, well behaved airplanes. However, they were not designed as a primary trainer. They are nimble, fast and responsive. Very easy to over control. A 152 will take a beating much better than an RV-6A will.

When I think back to some of the ham fisted maneuvers I was able to walk away from (flaring too high, flaring too late, ....) during my primary training, I shudder at the thought of making those mistakes in my RV. As a nugget, you will make them and it will take awhile to get it right.

Focus on your training and enjoy the journey. Then buy an RV

MY 2 cents.

MD
 
I agree with the suggestions that you first get your PPL then begin looking for an RV.

A different suggestion on how to do that.....

Since you are in a position that you are prepared to purchase an airplane, I suggest you still go ahead and do that, except get something that would be a good prospect for learning to fly in.

Use it for your training and then sell it. If purchased in somewhat decent condition and at a fair market value based on that condition, you likely could sell it for at least what you paid and sometimes even more.

This provides many bennefits...... a couple being

You don't have to work your training schedule around the availability of the airplanes the flight school has available.

It allows you to use a freelance flight instructor (not part of a flight school business) which can sometimes save you some money, and also get you an instructor that is typically teaching because they love to teach people to fly, not because it is a means for them to build flight time to move on to another job.

I know of people that have done this as a two way partnership to spread the ownership coasts a little wider (insurance, etc.)

It is possible to finish your training and have the airplane portion of the total be not much more than the cost of fuel and oil, plus a little for maintenance.
 
the nice thing about experimentals you buy is that you can work on them--anything and everything. This is a great advantage, IMO. You only have to engage an A&P (or the owner with a Repairman's Certificate) to get the annual Condition Inspection done. It's great learning, even if you didn't build the airplane.

On the other hand, you don’t have to work on them. You can have an A&P do that if you’re more comfortable.
 
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RV and training

There seems to be a lot of people saying NOT to buy your RV to learn in. I must say that I respectfully disagree. For decades people have purchased aircraft to learn to fly in because it saves them money.
Why not buy that RV if all checks out? I’d strongly consider doing it! Especially if you have an EAA chapter nearby. A quality built RV is better than MANY “Spam Can” aircraft..... I mean standard category. They are also WAY MORE FUN!
That said as an A&P IA and a 10+ year RV owner, I’ll point out a few items to consider-
1- you will never understand how wonderful they are if that’s all you fly.
2- a Cessna will teach you a level of finesse( or coaxing) on a hot day that you won’t learn in a RV. The RV finesse is a different level.
3- while learning, extra stability is always welcomed. RVs are very stable but also quick and listen like a well trained dog....they do exactly as you ask of them.
4- the slower speeds of most training vehicles give you some extra buffer.

I’m sure I could keep going but why? There are just things to consider when diving in to these waters. If you can, fly in a Cessna and then an RV and see which one fits your personality...... yes, that’s ACTUALLY a thing.
I love my RV-6A for going somewhere but if I’m going out for a fun flight and some Shenanigans, I get the RV-4 out. I love the centerline seating for some aerobatic fun!
Whichever way you go, please get proper training. Don’t rush, enjoy the journey! If you’re near Wisconsin, send me a PM and I’ll get you a demo ride set up!
Keep us posted on your progress and good luck in choosing a plane!
Feel free to call at 608-4five9-59four9 during business hours and I’ll help however I can!
Jason Edwards- Edwards Aircraft Service
 
Tom,
Good Luck on whatever you decide regarding your PPL. When it comes to purchasing an RV, or any other experimental aircraft for that matter, be cautious about using a broker or dealer. From my experience most (not all) brokers don't know the first thing about RV's or experimental aircraft. Ideally you would want to purchase from original builder, or at least someone who knows these airplanes. Before you even inspect the aircraft, make sure all the paperwork is in order and logbooks meet your satisfaction. If you don't know what to look for then hire an RV saavy mechanic to inspect logbooks and the aircraft.
 
I never really looked at the 172 I was flying till I started building my own 7a, I removed panels here and there and then started questioning the build quality of this certified aircraft, looking at all the rivets and wow! look at the 172 rudder, and then look at a Vans, Our EXPERIMENTAL aircraft are far superior in (my) opinion.

I think the design of any of the RVs is superior to the design of most certified aircraft. IMHO, the variable is the problem-solving ability and the attention to detail of the airplane’s builder. The OP’s most important task is going to be finding someone to do a thorough and accurate pre-buy inspection. The less you know about airplanes, especially E-AB airplanes, the more important it is to have your own personal “guru” to steer you through the process. It would be great if that person was also your CFI.

I don’t have an opinion about learning to fly in one’s own RV-6, except to say that the process of buying, owning, and maintaining an airplane, especially a new-to-you airplane, is pretty all-consuming. It would probably be more effective to take on one major aviation project at a time.
 
Start riding along now...

It is good to see another person who has the itch to fly. Start riding with anyone you can find flying. Find people that are close to you here on VAF so you can start riding in RVs too. Don't hesitate to go for a ride in a Piper Warrior, Cherokee 180, Cessna 172, etc.

Short of working on your cerficiate, a very valuable thing in aviation is networking. You'll soon meet an RV knowledgable A&P and an instructor that would be willing to teach you in the RV of your choice.

The most imprtant investment in the buying process is a thorough prebuy inspection. Even a prebuy where you decide not to buy a particular aircraft is valuable, since it saved you from a less than satisfying purchase. Finding out what might be an issue and going in to the negotiation process with that in mind is fantastic advice. Becoming an airplane owner involves a lot of small, but very important decisions.

Do you have access to a hangar to rent, buy or share? Do you need to get on a waiting list now? Are you willing to pay a ferry pilot to get your RV home to your hangar? Be careful with "free" offers to fly your new plane. Resist the urge to attempt to do training on the ferry flight home. It can be done, but is seldom successfully done because of weather, delays with discrepensies on the prebuy and availability if you're still working. You'll need to fly when the weather is good enough, and may have to wait out a storm for a day or two if the flight is more than a day's journey from where you buy it.

Best of luck. Feel free to message me if you have any questions or need someone to bounce ideas off of. :)
 
I agree with the suggestions that you first get your PPL then begin looking for an RV.

A different suggestion on how to do that.....

Since you are in a position that you are prepared to purchase an airplane, I suggest you still go ahead and do that, except get something that would be a good prospect for learning to fly in.

Use it for your training and then sell it. If purchased in somewhat decent condition and at a fair market value based on that condition, you likely could sell it for at least what you paid and sometimes even more.

This provides many bennefits...... a couple being

You don't have to work your training schedule around the availability of the airplanes the flight school has available.

It allows you to use a freelance flight instructor (not part of a flight school business) which can sometimes save you some money, and also get you an instructor that is typically teaching because they love to teach people to fly, not because it is a means for them to build flight time to move on to another job.

I know of people that have done this as a two way partnership to spread the ownership coasts a little wider (insurance, etc.)

It is possible to finish your training and have the airplane portion of the total be not much more than the cost of fuel and oil, plus a little for maintenance.

I admit it, I was a slow learner... but this is the route I took to learn how to fly, bought a RV-12, and I'd say it's an easy plane to learn how to fly in, just be careful and respectful of the landing gear and always land on the mains. A good instructor will train and teach you early on to not make mistakes, when in a plane as responsive as an RV model.

Not one regret, yet, in buying mine, to learn how to fly. Get an independent CFI, preferably one that already has a lot of hours.
 
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